Why do you think your "God" does not make it's existence obvious or communicate in an obvious man

reply to post by MystikMushroom


reply to post by MystikMushroom


Wouldn't this internal monologue include meditation and prayer? I'm not sure how far back you are going but I was able to pull this up on the web.

Not sure on the version but it reads...
Psalm 1:2 "But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night."

To me that indicates that there is an inward thought process and working out of ideas which naturally lead to some type of inward discussion with your own reasoning.

Then again, perhaps that voice in our head is our higher self and at some point in time we have just since forgotten how to interact with it properly. Could be an entirely new topic by itself.

crazyewok

AfterInfinity
I find more comfort in evolution than I do in creationism

Guess what I beleive in evoloution too

Shock horror.


Im a chritian and I dont beleive in young earth creationism

Infact I get major pissed off that you have to be a atheist to beleive in evolution.

First of all, you quoted me out of context. Poor form.

Second, I don't think Christianity leaves room for the theory of evolution.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by bitsforbytes

 

God doesn't pull triggers humans do. God never showed humans how to make guns or how to kill. Humans did that on their own.

Humans are accountable for their own actions.

Are humans manipulative, liars and deceivers. Some yes! We are sinners because we know good and evil, and we have the capacity to choose.

What don't you get? Be responsible. Period.

But when two drunks are beating the piss out of each other, there's no reason for God to show up and be like, "Bros, what have I told you? Come sit with me and sing a song of love. I brought Gatorade!"

Is that so unreasonable? Because that's what I call being responsible. If we are all his children, then maybe he ought to come down in person and spend some quality time with us. Phone calls don't quite cut it.

Maybe God is a lot like that Jeff Foxworthy's Dad....
"When I was a kid, my parents had a 900-pound television on top of a TV tray. My dad's theory was, "Let him pull it over his head a few times, he'll learn. You wanna put a penny in a light socket? Try that out. OHH! Hurt like hell, didn't it? Don't do that no more."-----Jeff Foxworthy

reply to post by QuietSpeech


That's not the point. My point was that if you had nothing to do with me when I was alive, you don't need to have anything to do with me when I'm dead. And that includes getting to judge me. No sirree, you have no reason to judge a man you never had a hand in raising personally. Oh, you sent so-and-so to do it? Well, then, I guess maybe you should let them take your seat for the duration of my trial. Unlike you, they've earned it!

AfterInfinity
reply to post by QuietSpeech

 

That's not the point. My point was that if you had nothing to do with me when I was alive, you don't need to have anything to do with me when I'm dead. And that includes getting to judge me. No sirree, you have no reason to judge a man you never had a hand in raising personally. Oh, you sent so-and-so to do it? Well, then, I guess maybe you should let them take your seat for the duration of my trial. Unlike you, they've earned it!

edit on 4-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I was just throwing in my 2 cents because a post brought J.F. to mind.

As for your reply, that sounds like a parent giving a child up for adoption. Even though the reasons may be best for everyone involved it does not mean that the everyone is going to feel like it was.

As for the judgement part, Roman 6:23 says something to the effect that the wages sin pays is death. You lived your life, did whatever you wanted and now you are dead. Sounds like you paid the piper, now chill out, relax, or go get reincarnated/ressurected and do it again. No judgement needed. I won't even touch the subject of spending eternity in "hell" because it is ridiculous.

As for the topic of God talking with you, I compare it to immersing yourself in a foreign language. It comes slowly, you get better at it, and once you get past the frustration it gains momentum. However you don't have to learn anything, stay where you are at until you have the desire to put forth the effort. After that, it's an entirely different ball game.

Xeven
Why do you think your "God" does not make it's existence obvious or communicate in an obvious manner?
Now I know some of you are going to say oh he does make his existence known and he does communicate and well I am not talking about some vague bible writings written thousands of year ago. I am talking about just plain ole hello there type talking.

Why does your god not reveal himself? Testing your faith? Why would he do that if he created you he knows the lengths of your faith.

So now that this is clear what gives? Why is god so secretive? Why is our only salvation written on some scrolls created by uneducated men 1000's of years ago?

Would be easy for everyone to believe if God would just say hello.

God could save everyone with a simple hello.

edit on 2-1-2014 by Xeven because: (no reason given)

As far as existence goes, if I was God I would be pretty frustrated.
"What? I give them the ability to ask these sorts of questions, and they think they evolved from primordial slime? Seriously? Ha! Wait until they discover DNA! That'll show them."
Fifty years later...
"WHAT? Oh, right, I'M not an option, but aliens are? Whose idea was man, anyway? Oh, right. Mine."

Fortunately, I'm not God. But I think your assertion that God could save everyone by saying hello is wrong. (If you're assuming a Judeo-Christian type God, anyway.) I mean, Satan was pretty much God's PM, and he's fallen farther than any man. If he could fall, why wouldn't we?

reply to post by StalkerSolent


Who said anything about saving? The OP was about PROVING God's existence by him walking up and saying hello.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The OP did, actually. "God could save everyone with a simple hello," I believe is how he phrased it.

But what's the point of making everyone believe you exist if it doesn't save their souls? (Assuming you think people's souls need salvation...)

AfterInfinity

Second, I don't think Christianity leaves room for the theory of evolution.

1st Im neither a Catholic or protestant, Not all Chritsian are young earth crazys.

2nd What rights have you got to tell me what I can and cant beleive?


Im a Chritsian and I beleive on evolution.

Deal with it.

reply to post by crazyewok


I respect funementalists and will not disagree with them out of principle but can also agree with you perception of evolution as a tool of god, after all how long is a day to the lord, I also happen to believe the passage in the new testament were christ points out "There is nothing new under the sun", so old world, the angels may have been humans before us and we are essentially there younger syblings and god well he is god though in accord with another religion other than as christ puts it god is good who are we to define him except in our faith that christ is in the father and the father is in christ so through christ we can perceive him and come unto him, As you may know from my comments I believe that there may have been many other civilizations right her and maybe even other races before man whom perhaps had there own judgement days (a time of ascension a new earth and heaven as the old one is swept away (made clean for the next class of kids perhaps)), now I know many will disagree with me and division is not my intent but God alone knows the answer and I suspect both are totally correct.

reply to post by crazyewok

1st Im neither a Catholic or protestant, Not all Chritsian are young earth crazys.

2nd What rights have you got to tell me what I can and cant beleive?

Please quote me where I said, "You can't believe in evolution."

I said that I don't think Christianity leaves room for the theory of evolution. Not only did I NOT tell you what to think or believe, I never referred to your personal beliefs at all. I spoke of Christianity in general, so maybe you should back off a couple inches and take another look at what I'm posting.

StalkerSolent
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The OP did, actually. "God could save everyone with a simple hello," I believe is how he phrased it.

But what's the point of making everyone believe you exist if it doesn't save their souls? (Assuming you think people's souls need salvation...)

What's the point of having a relationship with your child when s/he is in prison for 30 to life?

AfterInfinity

StalkerSolent
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The OP did, actually. "God could save everyone with a simple hello," I believe is how he phrased it.

But what's the point of making everyone believe you exist if it doesn't save their souls? (Assuming you think people's souls need salvation...)

What's the point of having a relationship with your child when s/he is in prison for 30 to life?

In Christian theology, salvation of the soul is a relationship with God. And there's nothing you can really do if the child doesn't want to see you, is there?

StalkerSolent

AfterInfinity

StalkerSolent
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The OP did, actually. "God could save everyone with a simple hello," I believe is how he phrased it.

But what's the point of making everyone believe you exist if it doesn't save their souls? (Assuming you think people's souls need salvation...)

What's the point of having a relationship with your child when s/he is in prison for 30 to life?

In Christian theology, salvation of the soul is a relationship with God. And there's nothing you can really do if the child doesn't want to see you, is there?

Ugh...look. The whole point here is that no god has ever had the consideration to approach me on my level. No god has ever even TRIED. And believe me, if they had tried, I would have known. And if they don't have the inclination to be honest about who they are at the same time that they attempt to contact me, then that just tells me what kind of character they are.

Long story short, God is the one who can make anything happen. Literally, anything. There is not a single damned thing imaginable that he cannot realize with a wink and a nod. So if he doesn't have the guts or the brains to show up on my doorstep and ask me out for a cup of coffee and a nice long chat, then that says it all. If he cared as much as everyone claims, he would be willing to meet my demands, even if it's just this one time. The one time that makes all the difference. And if he's as omniscient as they say, then he knows what a difference it could make.

My friends are more honest and more supportive and just generally more present than he is. My friends are more real in my life than God is. And that tells me everything. Perhaps that's the greatest proof of what this thread is trying to say.

AfterInfinity

Ugh...look. The whole point here is that no god has ever had the consideration to approach me on my level. No god has ever even TRIED. And believe me, if they had tried, I would have known. And if they don't have the inclination to be honest about who they are at the same time that they attempt to contact me, then that just tells me what kind of character they are.

Long story short, God is the one who can make anything happen. Literally, anything. There is not a single damned thing imaginable that he cannot realize with a wink and a nod. So if he doesn't have the guts or the brains to show up on my doorstep and ask me out for a cup of coffee and a nice long chat, then that says it all. If he cared as much as everyone claims, he would be willing to meet my demands, even if it's just this one time. The one time that makes all the difference. And if he's as omniscient as they say, then he knows what a difference it could make.

My friends are more honest and more supportive and just generally more present than he is. My friends are more real in my life than God is. And that tells me everything. Perhaps that's the greatest proof of what this thread is trying to say.

edit on 4-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Why should God come visit you? Maybe instead He wants you to search for Him? I mean, seriously, there are very few (if any) religions that advocate not searching for God and waiting for Him to show up.
I mean, after all, it is supposed to be His game, and I don't see why He should play by your rules.

And I don't see why you claim that God can do anything. Most religions have deities with constraints...
(Omnipotence doesn't rule out the aspect of self-limitation; for instance, if the God of the Bible (Torah) says He cannot tell a lie, that is not usually taken to mean He is not omnipotent. There may be similar limitations on Allah in the Koran, although I think the Muslims don't conceive of God's "nature" in the way Westerners do.)

So, while I understand that your friends are more "real" than God is in your life, for some people it's the opposite. I don't really see how that proves anything...

Personally I think God doesn't reveal himself the way you want because the most important gift ever given...free will. You can't really be 'free' if some all powerful, all knowing person is directly talking to you, telling you how it is. You're logically forced to believe what he says...and do what he tells you to do.

Thus having Free Will fully requires a silent God.

Xeven
I am not talking about some vague bible writings written thousands of year ago.

By the way bible writings are not vague. They are often very explicit 'Thou shall not kill' but written in a language about 2000 years old. It takes learning that style of language to help understand what is written. They are also written by a wide variety of people from different cultures and backgrounds. Some discuss their thoughts very differently than we do today.

Xeven
Why is our only salvation written on some scrolls created by uneducated men 1000's of years ago?

Your salvation isn't written down. It is in your actions. What is written is a way you can choose to act to find that salvation. Your free to try and find another way. Nice gift that free will is hey. Further the men that wrote 'scrolls' back then were almost always some of the most highly educated men of their time. Calling them uneducated is disrespectful and simply wrong.


Interesting subject and worthy of discussion. Thanks.

reply to post by logical7

God has a right because He has given us intelligence to make the right choice.

How do you know that God has given you intelligence, if God does not deem it fit to come and tell us so Himself? You're taking someone else's word on what God has done. What gives that person authority to speak for God, if God Himself will not speak?

You can use it as a tool to reach the truth or use it to deny it.

Or you can use intelligence as a tool for analyzing the evidence and arriving at a logical conclusion. The evidence says that God does not talk to anyone, as doing so would inhibit our free-will; therefore, anyone who claims to know what God wants, is lying, as God would not have told them.

A little reflection would start guiding any in the right way...

What would you recommend that we reflect on? God does not talk to us, so we cannot reflect on His words, only the words of another human being who claims to speak for God. How are we to measure the worth and value of any preacher's sermon, when God Himself has given us no word of His wishes?

unless he/she already does not want the truth to be a certain way.

Isn't that at the root of all religious teachings though?

Christians want the truth to be a certain way: that Jesus Christ is the only way to come to the Father.

Buddhists want the truth to be otherwise: that acknowledgment of the Four Noble Truths, and practicing the Dharma through use of the Noble Eight-Fold Path, is the only way to release oneself from the wheel of samsara and escape the process of dependent origination.

Not even surveying the rest of the world's major religions we already reach an impasse among these two. So, how do we determine (among ALL of the religious views existent on Earth) which is "the truth," and which is not?

~ Wandering Scribe

Highly interesting and intriguing.

If in the beginning only god existed and there was nothing else, and if god created us then god had to use himself to create us. The concept that we were created from nothing is not logical because if true, we would be nothing and would not exist.

We know from practical living and science that whenever something is created it is always created with the available building blocks, thus the creation is the sum of its parts and the creation can contain only the material (so to speak) used.

If god created us then we must be god like because that's what we were made from. If that is the case then god does make its presents known and quite handily. When you look in the mirror you are looking at god. When you see another you are looking at god. When you are looking the the most vile thing you can see you are looking at god.

It then becomes obvious god does not wish to control us in any way and gave us the power to think, feel, and act the way we want without stopping us. God never in history appeared to condem any man. Only we and other men condem us. And if god would punish its creations made from itsself, it would be punishing itsself. Would that be like cutting of your finger if you accidentally poked yourself in the eye?

Why should god manifest itself before man if god is alreay here?

reply to post by noeltrotsky

Personally I think God doesn't reveal himself the way you want because the most important gift ever given...free will. You can't really be 'free' if some all powerful, all knowing person is directly talking to you, telling you how it is. You're logically forced to believe what he says...and do what he tells you to do. Thus having Free Will fully requires a silent God.

How do you come to that conclusion? Do you believe that Adam didn't have free will, or Moses, or any of the figures in the bible that state they talked with God and knew him. I don't understand your conclusion here if you believe these people had free will.

I asked someone else this same question earlier and haven't had a response so please if anyone has this stance and would like to help me understand I would appreciate it.

drivers1492
How do you come to that conclusion? Do you believe that Adam didn't have free will, or Moses, or any of the figures in the bible that state they talked with God and knew him. I don't understand your conclusion here if you believe these people had free will.

Personally I think you can still have free will and 'talk' to God. You could be talking to a ghost, a imaginary person or any other number of things. You could even see a miracle from God and still have free will...because the miracle could have other unknown causes. You have to believe you are talking to God or seeing a miracle from God. However as soon as he 'proves' himself in an absolute way then you have lost your free will to follow or not.

So the 'leap of faith' is always required to maintain free will. I once searched for absolute evidence as well. Events changed my beliefs. I may be confused or I may be enlightened...we don't really know absolutely for sure!