Shaytaan - Satan

Its strange how the arabic, hindi and english name of the devil is more or less the same.

Is satan right so far?

For people who are religious they would believe that satan causes man to do wrong. Without satans temptations Man would not do any wrong. So the reason is due to temptation to do wrong in order to gain something. But having free will means you can do/think whatever you want, so then right/wrong has to be defined by something/someone, so the right thing is doing what the creator/owner/master asks of/likes the wrong being what he doesnt.

But the reason for this is due to satan wanting to prove to God that he is better than his creation "man", as before he created man "satan" was the favourite and most devout worshipper of God.

But when asked to be subservient to Mankind he refused stating he was better.

Satans argument is that Mankind is weak and will not follow God as well as he had, thus not the best of Gods creations. To prove this argument he tempted the first man to commit sin against God. Since then he has tempted every generation to do sin, wrong etc... But what if someone tempted Satan? Would satan have been tempted and disobeyed God.

But then that question has already been answered, because Satan was tempted and he did sin! he disobeyed God and commited a sin. The sin being pride, thinking he is better. Also its a contradiction.... because satan says man is weak as he disobeys God, whereas he himself disobeyed God, So its a level playing field. With the only other factor being that God commanded Satan to bow/respect mankind.

It may seem humourous as a read for non beleivers however theirs still morals and lessens for those people too.

So then what makes satan as an entity better than mankind?

Satan a free thinker made of light, no physical body as such, powerful. Created by God to serve him.
Mankind a free thinker made of physical elements, limited by physical body, very knowledgeable. Man was taught things by God that were not known to other creations. Mankind also contains attributes of God, not God himself, but characteristics, so in a sort of way can be described as "God Like", of God, but not part of God. Created to worship God.

So what makes satan better, he is not more knowledgeable. He does not have attributes of God. Both mankind and satan have the ability to think freely and do good or bad things. Satan is powerful in a certain respect he is able to flow through man's physical presence as he is made of light, however his
main weapon is temptation to do wrong via whispering. A good metaphor would be like a

Im just basing this on things ive read on other posts, as opposed to being my personal views.

Shouldn't this be in the Religious forum?

reply to post by rkingpin


Sorry I get a little lost when Satan seems to be walking in the garden with God - which surely means he could hardly be god's sworn enemy and have been flung out of heaven, if they were walking together before Satan decided to make a bet with God over Job. Isn't Satan sjupplosed to reside in hell? Its just a minor point, but I feel your post holds an awful lot of assumptions.

reply to post by nugget1


NO, it should be in the hoak's forum . Everybody knows the Devil died when Flip Wilson died. LOL

Shaytaan or Satan is a being that tests us, he is not evil because we take the bait. It would be like a fish saying we were evil because it was stupid enough to eat a fishing lure. Another name with the same job is Sanat. How about Santa, he gives us presents we do not really need and cause us to work more to pay for them.

I don't think Satan is actually evil. I have respect for him and god. I think he is working for god myself, testing us to see if we are worthy of going somewhere else. If there were no test, how would they know how we would act with the others in heaven. There cannot be chaos there or everything would fall apart. Now the Demons, they may be the mistakes they made in the past, giving powers to the wrong people. Appolo guards the gates of hell and he has the key. Is the guard evil? no. Is Satan and Apollo the same being? I don't think so, Apollo could not tell a lie. Satan is not stuck in hell, the demons are.

Don't blame the person who tests you if you fail the test.

reply to post by rkingpin

But having free will means you can do/think whatever you want, so then right/wrong has to be defined by something/someone, so the right thing is doing what the creator/owner/master asks of/likes the wrong being what he doesnt.

One thing I often hear from Christians is that Adam and Eve and all of creation were perfect when God created them and were corrupted by Original Sin. What they don't seem to understand is that free will would, necessarily, be an imperfection, especially in a world where sin already existed (if we accept the modern idea that the serpent in the Garden was Lucifer/Satan). Free will means that Adam and Eve can choose to do what THEY WANT and since they are not God that means that at some point they are going to choose to do something God doesn't want them to do or "sin". Sin becomes inevitable and God's absurd overreaction to it in the story becomes laughable and cruel.

Let's also not forget how oppressive what you're describing is/would be especially in light of the "free will" most Christians claim we have. For God to then say "you can only use your free will to do things I want you to do" is tyrannical and perhaps even EVIL.

So then what makes satan as an entity better than mankind?

Assuming that Satan exists, nothing, other than his creation as a celestial being to start off with. But I ask you, what makes God, as an entity, better than Satan? Because if we take the Bible at face value even a being as presumably sinful as Satan doesn't commit as much evil and sin as God does.

As for the origins of the word Satan, that's etymology for you, a very fascinating subject. You can trace many many English words back thousands of years and see that they have roots in other languages.

reply to post by rickymouse


Very good old boy! I share the same beliefs. As for the demons, good thinking as well, that could be a possibility for sure. Maybe they are angels who also fell victim to Satan's temptations, to rebel against god. Which is why God gave him the job as supreme tempter/adversary to man. He was a fake rebellion leader. An agent provocateur... God had to weed out any bad apples from his previous creation before he could really begin in earnest his work with man. Now all the untrustables are marked as demons and perhaps had some powers stripped or blocked access to certain dimensions... a condition known as Hell?

reply to post by 3n19m470


People curse satan all the time. Did Jesus try to kill Satan or blame Satan for tempting him? No.

Scrambled letters...Satan...Santa. We are taught to believe in a lie from very young and we learn to live with this lie. We find others later in life that tell us that Santa is not real. We see that this being we are accustomed to being good is nothing but a lie. We feel ashamed for a while that we were led to believe a lie. We do not approach our parents or want to believe that this is a lie, because it means Santa may not bring us gifts anymore. So we go along with the lie even though we know it isn't true for a while because to say we don't believe means that the rewards may end.

Doesn't this almost seem to be how society works, our belief in a false economy keeps going. We elect officials that will keep a lie from being found out. I think Santa is behind the fake economy. Belief in a lie, no matter how big or well accepted it is, will never make it real.

reply to post by Shiloh7


no satan was expelled out of heaven to earth however he had means to get into heaven by other means, you have to remember he was put in charge of heaven / guardian. So maybe he knew another way in. Or was able to take another form

people look too much into the fine details rather than the lesson or moral

Titen-Sxull
reply to post by rkingpin

 

But having free will means you can do/think whatever you want, so then right/wrong has to be defined by something/someone, so the right thing is doing what the creator/owner/master asks of/likes the wrong being what he doesnt.

One thing I often hear from Christians is that Adam and Eve and all of creation were perfect when God created them and were corrupted by Original Sin. What they don't seem to understand is that free will would, necessarily, be an imperfection, especially in a world where sin already existed (if we accept the modern idea that the serpent in the Garden was Lucifer/Satan). Free will means that Adam and Eve can choose to do what THEY WANT and since they are not God that means that at some point they are going to choose to do something God doesn't want them to do or "sin". Sin becomes inevitable and God's absurd overreaction to it in the story becomes laughable and cruel.

Let's also not forget how oppressive what you're describing is/would be especially in light of the "free will" most Christians claim we have. For God to then say "you can only use your free will to do things I want you to do" is tyrannical and perhaps even EVIL.

So then what makes satan as an entity better than mankind?

Assuming that Satan exists, nothing, other than his creation as a celestial being to start off with. But I ask you, what makes God, as an entity, better than Satan? Because if we take the Bible at face value even a being as presumably sinful as Satan doesn't commit as much evil and sin as God does.

As for the origins of the word Satan, that's etymology for you, a very fascinating subject. You can trace many many English words back thousands of years and see that they have roots in other languages.

edit on 2-1-2014 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

What does God Want you to do?

these days i think satan is least concern of mosts people. You probably live with people worse and more devious than satan. Satans prob gloating

And they will call me shaitan- leto 2 from the god emporer of dune by frank herbert

reply to post by rkingpin


Small correction. The shaytaan (plural) are not Iblees. The Shaytaan are bad djinn, and Iblees is your Satan. Arabic, seems similar, way different meaning.

The shaytaan are bad djinn, there are good ones too btw, but the bad ones are called the shaytaan. They follow Iblees (your lucifer) and help to do his bidding.

Iblees is not an angel of light in Islam either. He is a powerful djinn... Djinn are not angels, angels are beings created from light, djinn are beings created from smokeless fire.

Ibless and his shaytaan are not better than mankind, but are being who are jealous of us. They have freewill just as we do btw. They are simply another creation...

reply to post by rkingpin

Its strange how the arabic, hindi and english name of the devil is more or less the same.

Nothing strange about it. The Arabs and the Hebrews are kissing cousins, and their languages are closely related. The word 'Satan' entered English from Hebrew and Hindi from Arabic.

And that's really all there is to it.