Forget Hitler's Holocaust - Evil Britain's pet Holocaust is just as horrible !

the government was also worried about feral dog packs which was a lesson they had learned from france in WW1

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


You do realize that the UK was well on its way toward losing WWII until their neighbors across the pond stepped in?

Your headline comparison and some of your text are the most outrageous words that I've read on ATS in the several years that I've been visiting.

War is hell and comes in many forms. Your comparison simply escapes reality.

I would NEVER consider killing my pet for food ... NEVER!!! I would rather starve to death!!!

Don't give that idiot cameron any more ideas. He is a thatcher lover and she in turn worshiped Churchill. Both war mongers who didn't give a # about anyone, let alone their beloved pets!

hx

Aliensun
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

You do realize that the UK was well on its way toward losing WWII until their neighbors across the pond stepped in?

Any possibility of Britain losing the war ended in October 1940, when Hitlers Luftwaffe was defeated in The Battle Of Britain. His invasion plans sunk like a brick in The English Channel.
He never tried again.

I would NEVER consider killing my pet for food ... NEVER!!! I would rather starve to death!!!

Don't give that idiot cameron any more ideas. He is a thatcher lover and she in turn worshiped Churchill. Both war mongers who didn't give a # about anyone, let alone their beloved pets!

hx

happinness
I would NEVER consider killing my pet for food ... NEVER!!! I would rather starve to death!!!

Don't give that idiot cameron any more ideas. He is a thatcher lover and she in turn worshiped Churchill. Both war mongers who didn't give a # about anyone, let alone their beloved pets!

hx

YAWN………………….. try to get past party politics Happinness, it will clear your mind and give you better judgement…

regards

PDUK

Well I thought maybe people learned from mistakes........ Wasn't this an issue a long time ago when stray cats were becoming a "problem" in most of Europe?

What happened then you ask? They eradicated the cats, the mouse/rat population grew and it gave rise to "the plague", "black death" or whatever you want to call it that killed most of the worlds population....

JohnPhoenix


Er.. check the facts. This was initiated because of a fear the government had BEFORE anyone was starving at all.

Oh yes, by all means. I would prefer my government make absolutely NO plans at all for a war they know is coming. Sarcasm intended.

reply to post by stumason


Careful with that. Come of us Yanks have been on your side in this.

It's a matter of understanding that you can't put your present day circumstances and sensibilities onto past situations and expect them to match up.

Of course, if my government sent around a pamphlet today telling me to off my pets, I'd give them the giant middle finger and call them barbaric. However, if, say, the Yellowstone volcano blew and there was a worldwide catastrophe as a result with rationing and food shortages ... and I received the same knowing we had three human mouths, one a very young child ... my perspective might be quite a bit different.

You have to try to put yourself in the shoes of the people of the day and time, not stay in your own.

JohnPhoenix

ProfessorChaos

JohnPhoenix

LiveForever8
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

As for your Hitler comparison...what are you on about? These weren't cold, heartless murderers slaughtering millions without a second thought.

Er.. how do you know? Seems to me murdering your beloved pet by order of the government is just as cold and heartless as Hitlers actions. No.. in many ways this is much worse than Hitler's holocaust. The government didn't want people to be humane and take care of their pets. They deemed pets do not deserve to live so they made the owners kill them. (I wonder how many children wound up eating their pets!) They turned all Britains citizens into murderers. That's worse.

Normal people do do things just as evil as Hitler and yet - we tend to think nothing of it and or forget it quickly. That's my point.

You may be right.. perhaps they were not cold and heartless.. just stupid.

BTW folks, I have nothing against the British. In fact I love them and have many friends from across the pond. I'd have posted the same thread if this happened in America or any where else.

edit on 1-1-2014 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

So by your logic, it would have made more sense to let all of those animals die of starvation? I was expecting something FAR different when I clicked on this thread.

By the way, it was a government recommendation, not an order. If anything, it was the most humane thing that could have been done; these were domesticated animals that were not necessarily prepared to fend for themselves in the wild, and what do you think would have been done to a starving dog caught snacking on a dead human body? Yep, they would have been shot on the spot.

I'm sure a great many of those families (particularly the children) were absolutely brokenhearted to know that this was indeed the only true option for the situation.

Comparing this to Hitler's holocaust is silly at best.

And no one gets the Hitler point.. LOL.. you guys are funny. Hitler is a Monster we all agree but so what, we can All be Monsters. They made monsters out of every person that shot their pet. People DID have better choices but 750,000 of them didn't bother. They allowed themselves to become The Monster.

edit on 1-1-2014 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Oh, I got the Hitler point just fine. I simply disagree with it, especially in this situation.

It's funny because again, none of you are getting it. I did not single out Brits and put them down or compare them to Hitler in any way.. it just so happened Brits did this deed but it matters not, the thread would have been the same if it had been Americans. Sure I mentioned evil Brits but it could just as easily have been evil Americans. Thats Not singling out all Brits.. it's singling out those folks who did the deed that just happen to be Brits.. anyone can and will be an evil monster just like Hitler.. thats my point.

JohnPhoenix
It's funny because again, none of you are getting it. I did not single out Brits and put them down or compare them to Hitler in any way.. it just so happened Brits did this deed but it matters not, the thread would have been the same if it had been Americans. Sure I mentioned evil Brits but it could just as easily have been evil Americans. Thats Not singling out all Brits.. it's singling out those folks who did the deed that just happen to be Brits.. anyone can and will be an evil monster just like Hitler.. thats my point.

We've already established that those Brits who euthanized their pet's under these circumstances had no evil intent and weren't monster's...it's you who are not getting it.

But going along with your theory that anyone can and will be an evil monster like Hitler.....seriously the best example you could give is this one? When there is a whole host of crimes against humanity and human suffering at the hand's of evil regimes and organisations happening today.

There is no point in making a sensationalist subject title ( that does indeed single out Brits) and then compare them to Hitler ( which you did infact do whether you care to now admit or not and whether was intentional or not) and then complain that people don't get it when people point out the absurdity of it.

I do infact agree that man is capable of much evil especially when it is given the right kind of breeding ground. There are grounds for valid discussion....but the context in which you presented this argument is where it failed.

reply to post by Logos23


I agree Logos he is trying to backtrack...

Just read the title of the thread again.

Forget Hitler's Holocaust - Evil Britain's pet Holocaust is just as horrible !

So a pet holocaust is as horrid as 6 million PEOPLE being killed?.
He calls us sick bastards...and says we are just as evil as Hitler.
Why not be a man and say sorry eh?

reply to post by boymonkey74


I agree...

When someone starts a conversation with " Forget ( insert subject matter) " and then directly after discusses a second subject, they do this to make a point that the second subject is of equal or greater importance than the one we should be "forgetting" about.

Errmmm...I'm sorry but I wont be "forgetting" about the 6 million murdered Jews during the Holocaust and the pain and suffering of survivors...in favour of a culling of pets by concerned pet owners. If they were really that evil they could have tied them in a sack with bricks and flung them into the river and watched them sink!

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


if i had to shoot my dog, i would be next.

JohnPhoenix
It's funny because again, none of you are getting it. I did not single out Brits and put them down or compare them to Hitler in any way

I see the confusion now. People are reading the opening line of your post and are assuming you did. Since that's what you did.

JohnPhoenix
So you thought Hitler was the only sick bastard on the block huh? Guess again.. looks like those British are just as evil.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Just like a few people are saying mate, the pamphlet only offered advice. That's rather different to the eugenics/concentration camps and forced labour programs that the Nazi SS and Gestapo were implementing and overseeing. I suppose we should also keep in mind that the British did indeed invent or to be more precise reinvent the whole notion of concentration camps during the Boer war of 1899-1902.

en.wikipedia.org... Boer Wars

en.wikipedia.org... Internment

The sad part about the whole Holocaust is the fact that we as a species are unwilling to learn from our mistakes. This is apparent when one considers the ethnic cleansing that took place in the Soviet Union, then in former Yugoslavia and Iraq.

And the part that worries me most is that with the current immigration problems that the United Kingdom is experiencing will we also in the end resort to such horrendous act?

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


I can't, they all irritate me.

Happy New year ... hx

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I accept I should not have posted some of the comments I made, I've been formally rebuked and I accept it. Moving on from that and in response to your reply.

Firstly, I appreciate you had no reason to suspect that this article was lifted from an earlier BBC article. You can search it, it's easy to find and I don't yet know how to post links.

You article is titled 'Forget Hitler's Holocaust - Evil Britain's Pet Holocaust is just as horrible.' If I am to be pulled up for inappropriate rhetoric then it needs to be pointed out that you set up your debate with a completely unfounded attack on what you called 'Evil Britain'. It needs to be pointed out that if your post is about an incident then it should read 'Britain's Evil Pet Holocaust ...' because your article is about a specific incident that happened in 1939, but you framed it as Evil Britain which is a general statement about Britain, a statement I find no justification for in your post. In short, you are not saying the event was evil you are saying Britain is evil and that is deeply offensive to me. This is subversive rhetoric that is often missed by those less familiar with critical analysis but ifs far more destructive.

On another point, the proposed cull of pets in Britain at this time was never and has since never been referred to as a 'holocaust', because that is a specific title given to the systematic genocide of millions of people by the German government based on race. To (mis)appropriate this title and use it to describe the events of 1939 has the effect of marginalisation of the fate suffered by many Jewish, Polish, Gipsy and other races under Hitler's so called 'Final Solution'.

To give the debate its historical context back, at the time Britain imported much of its food from mainland Europe, a supply that was seriously diminished by the events leading up to our declaration of War on Germany in 1939. By mid-1939 Britain was suffering serious food shortages that would only worsen. Food was on ration, and the British Government proposed the cull, as a humane solution over allowing animals to starve to death over weeks or months.

Needless to say, many people did not follow the Government's advice, Barns Wallace (designer of the Spitfire and 'bouncing bomb') kept his pet dog throughout the war and was quite public about it. There was as much controversy at the time as there is now about the issue. Many 'rescue' centres were set up to avoid people having to destroy or starve their pets. Landed gentry such as the Duchess of Hamilton sent staff into the city to rescue pets.

None of this seems to have made it into your post, which is extremely unbalanced. If we are to talk rhetoric then the question needs to be asked why none of the above information made it into your post and why you felt one article was sufficient to call British people 'sick barstard[s]', and '... as bad as crazy, as evil as Hitler himself.' as we all know Hitler killed people because he thought they were less human than he was, when Britain proposed the cull to prevent needless starvation and suffering.

Britain is not Evil, it may have been an evil act, but it did not and never has sat well with the British people. Yet another fact that seems to have been omitted from your post.

I would not consider the US an Evil country when the subject matter of the film 'Old Yeller' made its way into the broader public consciousness in the 60's, after all it was to save the animal from suffering ... it would be absurd to suggest Disney were attempting to align their corporate morality with Hitler, wouldn't it?

For all the reasons above, I am offended by your post.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


This is one of the most twisted things I have every read on ATS (surprised it`s not been removed)
My guess is that you are one of those American ultra right wing fascists that quite admire "good old Adolf"