How we're getting smoked on taxes!

Hmm, I think we should actually go up 9 cents in Texas for cigarettes and about 5 cents per gallon on gas and 3.0% on an internet sales tax. Alcohol taxes ought to go up a little too. MM and recreational tax at 25%. But also support permanently abolishing the property tax and poll tax and using the raised taxes above for education and roads. No one should ever be able to tax your home, nor take it from you. A book does a homeless child or a homeless family 0 good if they have nowhere to live.

A few things should be cut, like salaries. For example, I don't think city employees should make over 2k per month. (across the board) No "careers" out of government work and no overtime, no weekends. That means you too county. No coach should ever make more than the damn President by the way. No one should be able to tax but the people apon vote for said tax apon full explanation and presented plan for spending with that tax.

AcA penalities/taxes removed from the law.

I dont think our state legislators should make any more then they do now (for the legislative job) and should have a website up where the people can vote on issues directly. Governor has 2 term 4 year term maximum like the president.

I think congress should take a 50k paycut, the President a 150k paycut. (I know someone is going to hate me after that lol) I'm sorry. But many of you make more than any private sector job could ever pay me and you guys expect us all to pay YOU. That said, I don't think any one in Government should get tax payer funded pensions or taxpayer funded retirement plans. You should have to save like everyone else. (More hate incoming I know)

I support 12 year term limits for all legislative positions. That's six won elections and once you lose, you're out. No coming back; off to the private sector with you. I'm not for life appointments either. Sorry :/ 20 year maximum for you good folks too.

Wave bye bye to monetary lobbying by the way.
And hello 10 hour community service terms for the individual every year for 4 years. Mowing lawns, picking up trash, watering and planting, growing food for the homeless, cleaning up alleyways ect. Which is to say, you go up to the city hall and you sign a little piece of paper for ten hour commitment on saturdays, for like 2-3 hours per saturday to do any of those things as a public service and you get a tax cut once per year for that ten hours.

I'm also for forgiving monetary debt every 7 years and all non violent misdemeanors stricken from the record right along with credit checks abolished.

Legalizing gambling, prostitution and both taxed at 25% and 25%. Mandatory health tests for the madams with education incentives for getting out of that profession. You ladies deserve better. Go find that better.

I wonder how many taxes you could drop or get rid of if this was all done?

Course, I'm not ever completely for any form of taxation but the bare minimum and anything over that minimum going back to the people. Ive said that before. But If we could do away with all excess taxes? pffft hell yea, bye bye excess taxation. I am all for small efficient government, more choice and active people in their communities. I'll never approve of taxing anyone to the point it hurts.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

We've had this conversation before, but the fact is that states have monetized the legal system. It's no longer about justice, its about making millions in surplus for the state budget via a quiet tax through law enforcement. If we take the profit out of the legal system, we'll see law enforcement agencies decrease in size, and these silly laws taken off the books. It should always COST a state to prosecute, not BENEFIT them. When it benefits them, they have a vested interest in quietly making everyone a criminal just to line their coffers.

I'd forgotten I still had this graphic laying around from a thread I did a year or more ago. It's probably grown quite a bit since then. This is a pretty powerful visual tho...eh?



I'm thinking fair, reasonable and proper taxes to run the basics which Government has any duty to be running ought to fit into that last figure on the bottom ....if we simply drop one number entirely off the end. 7,000-8,000 pages seems a bit excessive in it's own right...but over 70,000 is the product of a Government largely run by people who are attorneys by education. Literally, as it happens.

Even Congress is heavy with lawyers in office...and we wonder why we get 1,000 pages to get a simple concept written down. Maybe we need to just BAN anyone with a law degree from serving in public office above the local level for 10 years. Give real humans a chance to sort out all those 10's of thousands of pages of legalese gobbly guck.

reply to post by defcon5


You're quite right and I'd be quick to separate two things on this.

The 'Boots and Badges' law enforcement of street cops and actual police work as anyone thinks of it, vs. the tyranny by tax code it's coming to be in some cases, enforced by the extremes of the law. Such as RICO.

As close as anyone in this case will ever come to a badge is the wallet holder of a revenue agent or the equivalent. While it's related to the commercializing of things like the prison and criminal courts system, I think it's altogether different in that it's a more subtle thing with far reaching effects.

If things like this are pushed hard enough, then 10 years from now, we'll be debating about how the 'facists at Fedex' pop the top to every package in their door because they're all just out of control ..when cases like this will have been the kernal to pop that into reality later.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Or we'll be complaining about how everything that is shipped comes in clear packaging meaning you must either be home to receive or your brand-new, shiny whatsit is lying out there on your doorstep for all the world to see, covet and steal.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It won't get into the brick and mortar stores until we start using it.

It is related to this thread because at this point (and hopefully for the future) it is not taxable.

Don't have to be rude. I'll try to not "stop by" and contribute to your threads in the future.

Nephalim
Hmm, I think we should actually go up 9 cents in Texas for cigarettes and about 5 cents per gallon on gas and 3.0% on an internet sales tax. Alcohol taxes ought to go up a little too. MM and recreational tax at 25%. But also support permanently abolishing the property tax and poll tax and using the raised taxes above for education and roads. No one should ever be able to tax your home, nor take it from you. A book does a homeless child or a homeless family 0 good if they have nowhere to live.

A few things should be cut, like salaries. For example, I don't think city employees should make over 2k per month. (across the board) No "careers" out of government work and no overtime, no weekends. That means you too county. No coach should ever make more than the damn President by the way. No one should be able to tax but the people apon vote for said tax apon full explanation and presented plan for spending with that tax.

AcA penalities/taxes removed from the law.

I dont think our state legislators should make any more then they do now (for the legislative job) and should have a website up where the people can vote on issues directly. Governor has 2 term 4 year term maximum like the president.

I think congress should take a 50k paycut, the President a 150k paycut. (I know someone is going to hate me after that lol) I'm sorry. But many of you make more than any private sector job could ever pay me and you guys expect us all to pay YOU. That said, I don't think any one in Government should get tax payer funded pensions or taxpayer funded retirement plans. You should have to save like everyone else. (More hate incoming I know)

I support 12 year term limits for all legislative positions. That's six won elections and once you lose, you're out. No coming back; off to the private sector with you. I'm not for life appointments either. Sorry :/ 20 year maximum for you good folks too.

Wave bye bye to monetary lobbying by the way.
And hello 10 hour community service terms for the individual every year for 4 years. Mowing lawns, picking up trash, watering and planting, growing food for the homeless, cleaning up alleyways ect. Which is to say, you go up to the city hall and you sign a little piece of paper for ten hour commitment on saturdays, for like 2-3 hours per saturday to do any of those things as a public service and you get a tax cut once per year for that ten hours.

I'm also for forgiving monetary debt every 7 years and all non violent misdemeanors stricken from the record right along with credit checks abolished.

Legalizing gambling, prostitution and both taxed at 25% and 25%. Mandatory health tests for the madams with education incentives for getting out of that profession.

You ladies deserve better. Go find that better.

I wonder how many taxes you could drop or get rid of if this was all done?

Course, I'm not ever completely for any form of taxation but the bare minimum and anything over that minimum going back to the people. Ive said that before. But If we could do away with all excess taxes? pffft hell yea, bye bye excess taxation. I am all for small efficient government, more choice and active people in their communities. I'll never approve of taxing anyone to the point it hurts.

Wait...you think the beverage tax in Texas should go up? It was 14% on gross reciepts (meaning the vendor paid the taxes) until yesterday. Today it is 8.25% "sales tax" and 6.7% gross receipts tax (effective 1-1-14).

Just exactly how much more should people pay in beverage tax?

In fairness, I am very familiar with the idea that the "mixed beverage tax saved fine dining restaurants" argument. However, the real problem there isn't that the tax did anything, but that establishments were finally allowed to operate in the realm of mixed beverages.

Yea I believe it was beer that was taxed. Not liquor. I believe this year it changed.

hard to tell we had like 1500 laws passed and I havent been able to track down a whole list of them. Ill have to check with hro to get more of a general idea on this and upcoming issues.

Beer over 4% abv is subject to an additional $0.198 per gallon tax, to a 14% on-premise tax and to $0.05/drink airline sales tax. Texas has a 1% GRT(0.5% for retailers) that is levied in addition to its 6.25% sales tax (called the franchise tax).

and news link on beverages, as per your mention.

RICO,really?Yeah after the Gambino and Bonnano crime families comes those thugs from FedEx.Wrabbits right that these ridiculous charges are saying to carriers they are responsible for policing the packages sent to them now.Or else you get John Gotti's cell.

Nephalim
Yea I believe it was beer that was taxed. Not liquor. I believe this year it changed.

hard to tell we had like 1500 laws passed and I havent been able to track down a whole list of them. Ill have to check with hro to get more of a general idea on this and upcoming issues.

edit on 1-1-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

I don't know how a package store or a vendor is taxed. I presume that their tax is similar. I have the page bookmarked on my other computer.

But I have always paid 14% gross reciepts for anything that has alcohol in it. That coffee you have after dinner with a splash of kahlua....no sales tax can be charged on that. It is a mixed beverage and is assessed a gross receipts tax.

ETA: under the prior tax scheme. Now you pay regular sales tax plus the 6.7% beverage tax.

Wrabbit2000

I saw this image and had to comment:

"I wonder if any of the new 40000 new laws coming into effect in 2014 have anything to do with the already ridiculously corrupt and overly cumbersome tax laws already established by the group insanity we call government?"

thelead.blogs.cnn.com...

I'm pretty sure the tax code just became that much more convoluted.

-Peace-

so all these replies, yet not one person can address the obvious insanity of "my car" being more important than the people "driving" it to make profit?

Very pathetic, very pathetic indeed.

I assume it is because you can easily see the ignorance of this position, yet cant break your social programming enough to make a reasonable response that isnt retarded.

Go people instead of "the machine"

Educating folks, one person at a time......it is what I aspire to!!!

reply to post by oblvion


Without revisiting the entire thread ... so ... delivery services are bad because they make a profit shipping things to you?

ketsuko
reply to post by oblvion

 

Without revisiting the entire thread ... so ... delivery services are bad because they make a profit shipping things to you?

Um no!!!!!!!!!!!

The " Company" making more off the exchange than the actual "people" making it "happen" is my problem.

My "car" doesnt deserve more resources than the person involved in driving it.

Walmart doesnt "deserve" to make more profits than their employees combined, that actually "worked" to make those profit possible in the first place.

If 43 people "make" a house, the "boss" ( who did nothing to actually build the house) should not make most of the profits, the people who "actually" did all of the work should make most of the profits, as it was "their" labors that created the product.

Seems like an easy position to understand, how do you not understand my meaning?????

reply to post by oblvion


Profits are assigned more to investment of risk, not investment of labor.

Think of it like this: You come to me for a million dollar investment in your company. I give you terms that you feel are far too stiff, and want to negotiate. We negotiate, and I do it like a champ. YOu still feel that you are getting raped, and complain. My response: this is what I feel like my $1mil is worth. If we do not agree, then that is fine.

How do I assign that value to my $1mil? By risk assessment. What are the chances I will get that money back from you? Beyond that, I consider things like what I want my residual payoff to be (residual is the way to go) and what options can be exercised to cease that residual (the "buy out" value). But it all starts with risk.

So, with your Wal Mart example, you may be right. I don't know their full level of risk. Each store likely pays about 300-500k in insurance each year on just the liability insurance. Theft, etc...i have no clue.

Labor....anyone can provide that. But liquidity in a high risk situation....there are less that can afford that. Supply vs demand. It sucks, but it is the way it is. And if you were at the top, you would likely see it that way, too.

reply to post by oblvion


Well that depends. The employees do the visible work, but how much of the day-to-day logistical work can any of them do? The things the boss does. If the roles are fully interchangeable, you have a point, but often, in many places of work, they are not.

You can teach a person out of high school how to do lab procedures, but he or she will not be equipped to understand why he or she is doing them or how to adapt them if something in the process breaks down. This is what the fully trained microbiologists or chemists who often don't do the basic lab procedures because they are busy pushing papers (but could do them if needed) are for among other things. And, it's why the micros are the bosses and get paid more.

No, they don't do the day-in, day-out productive work all the time, but none of the lab techs could do what they do while they could do what the lab techs do. This is why they get more money.

An engineer knows the dynamics and forces behind why and how to put together a pipe system and could build it, but it's often the plumbers who get called in to do the building. Do the plumbers have quite the same engineering understanding? Could they reverse the roles? This is why the engineer gets paid more and is often in charge.

reply to post by ketsuko


You and BFFT are not thinking in the proper context.

The "workers", all of them, the server, to the paper pusher are all "workers".

The "company" should not make more than all of them combined, which is at present happening, in all sectors of the economy, which has led to the complete collapse of the middle class, all while the "executives" which are all in reality "owners" through their market share of stocks, via "stock options", running the entire "machine" into the ground.

At present execs on average make more than all hourly employees combined, the execs have not EVER actually made a single $ for the company, they have only taken from it, all profits come from the hourly workers, without which, there would be no products, and no company at all.

Execs dont make money for the company, only the hourly workers can do that.

Take walmart for example, fire all hourly employees, there is no company, it does not even exist now.

Same example, this time fire all execs, the company is still viable, it only needs a few folks to secure the logistics chain.

People dont need a "car", all "cars" require a driver, there is no serperating this simple fact.

The car does not deserve more of the resources it makes than those that actually made the resources, yes it deserves a take, but by no means the greater.

This is the easiest thing in the world to understand, and the exact reason for the economic downturn that has plagued the planet the last 8 years.

There is only one answer, less for those doing nothing productive, and more for those actually producing.

Short of that, the entire chain will fail at some point, and it will be those with the power to take, vs those who are powerless to resist.....

Basically just like now, but guns and not "currency" will be involved.

There is no other way, look at history, this has all happened many times before, it is about to happen again.

Why would anyone work for $15,000 a year when they can make $35,00 a year on welfare?

It is going to come to a head, Rome died this way, we are watching it burn around us now.

We can change for the better of all, or all can suffer in the collapse

reply to post by oblvion


I don't disagree that the workers are taking a beating. Unions became so crooked that people shunned them, while the minimum wage has stayed flat. Costs are skyrocketing, wages aren't. I get that.

If anyone can come up with a solution, I will review it and see if I am onboard. Otherwise, we are yelling at the dark.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by oblvion

 

I don't disagree that the workers are taking a beating. Unions became so crooked that people shunned them, while the minimum wage has stayed flat. Costs are skyrocketing, wages aren't. I get that.

If anyone can come up with a solution, I will review it and see if I am onboard. Otherwise, we are yelling at the dark.

I agree, stomping our feet and bitching without a solution is futile.

I have proposed several times on here a solution, that is both free market, would keep workers in the financial loop at all times, with no need of a minimum wage in most cases, or most social welfare programs. It would also continually reinforce the economy instead of dragging it down because of greed.

Here is the cliff notes version.

Any company making over X amount with X amount of workers ( I used X because this number should be reasoned out, not set in stone by me) would be required to pay 1/2 of their annual profits to their hourly employees.

So say company X made $100,000,000 net this year, they would be reguired to have paid out a minimum of $50,000,000 to their hourly workers.

All salaried and executive pay would would come from the companies 1/2 of the monies, thus limiting outrageous pay and bonuses to them.

Obviously, no company could know future profits, so a reasonable hourly rate would be paid, and a year end bonus for the remaining unpaid amount would be issued.

The company would still be able to decide which workers were worth more, so good workers would still be paid better than the bad ones.

The employees would now share in the boons of the company, and would also lose if the company wasnt performing well. So productivity would go up, waste would go down. In short all the employees would be investing their time and labors into the company assured of a decent return.

This would in turn, provide the company with more customers, as their customer base would increase as they had more people with more disposable income.

At this point, the rich would lose out at first, but as things continued to build momentum this system would reinforce itself.

Instead of the system in place now, that destroys itself every chance it gets. Company not making enough profits, cut worker pay, so people have less money, so they cut workers, so even less folks have money to buy goods and services, so another round of pay cuts and worker layoffs.

It would be inclusive instead of divisive.

This is not the full version, it is only a very brief overview, but I think it has a lot of merits.

Your are a very wise and particularly thoughtful member of ATS that understands business and economics well, I have read alot of your commentary on the subjects.

Please be brutal and very critical in your critique, if the model has any merits it can weather the storm, if it is weak and wanting it will be crushed under its own ineptitude.
Thanks for your time.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Really none of that would do any good unless society wasn't able at that point to raise the prices on everything. You guys should know that by now. The more people make, the more everyone wants it. Including Government. You guys bump that minimum and prices go up. You'd need a prize freeze or something to make it (the previous posters proposal) worth doing. And, as I said, Taxes, lowered and kept low for overall benefit.