Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

I have a few questions about this topic if anyone has answers. If you have certain claims, please list a source.

Of the "majority of scholars" that we keep hearing about, the ones that accept the fact of Jesus actual existence ...

1) How many are there? Is there a list? Is there a professional organization for professional Jesus-believers? Do they take a vote?

2) When they say that they believe he existed, what do they mean? Was there one person that did all that the Gospels recording Jesus doing? Half of what he did? Some of what he did? None of what he did, but still had the name?

3) How many of these scholars are also Christians? How many were Christians before they completed their studies?

4) Was the Jesus they believe in one man or several (a composite)? Is there any possibility that a writer was inspired by a friend and wrote stories down without consulting him which subsequently "went viral"?

5) What percentage of the population of Palestine was literate in the first century, why write these stories down for common people? Were the literate individuals mostly involved in government or some other field?

That'll get me started. Serious responses much appreciated!

People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

colbe
People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

your life !
I could argue the other way, if God exists, I would not want to live another moment...

why??

I did nothing wrong according to the religion ? ANY religion!
HALLO??? take me to HAVEN!

why do I have to stay with this horrible, horrible human beings ? greedy selfish arrogant killers ?!?!

KrzYma

colbe
People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

your life !
I could argue the other way, if God exists, I would not want to live another moment...

why??

I did nothing wrong according to the religion ? ANY religion!
HALLO??? take me to HAVEN!

why do I have to stay with this horrible, horrible human beings ? greedy selfish arrogant killers ?!?!

You have a knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, good and evil and you have the gift to choose. What are you
choosing?

"Greedy, selfish, arrogant killers" are not of God.

colbe

KrzYma

colbe
People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

your life !
I could argue the other way, if God exists, I would not want to live another moment...

why??

I did nothing wrong according to the religion ? ANY religion!
HALLO??? take me to HAVEN!

why do I have to stay with this horrible, horrible human beings ? greedy selfish arrogant killers ?!?!

You have a knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, good and evil and you have the gift to choose. What are you
choosing?

"Greedy, selfish, arrogant killers" are not of God.

they are sure not of God, what to do ? kill them all ??
kill all Godless people ??

KrzYma

colbe

KrzYma

colbe
People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

your life !
I could argue the other way, if God exists, I would not want to live another moment...

why??

I did nothing wrong according to the religion ? ANY religion!
HALLO??? take me to HAVEN!

why do I have to stay with this horrible, horrible human beings ? greedy selfish arrogant killers ?!?!

You have a knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, good and evil and you have the gift to choose. What are you
choosing?

"Greedy, selfish, arrogant killers" are not of God.

they are sure not of God, what to do ? kill them all ??
kill all Godless people ??

kinda harsh cant we just send them to bed without supper. Or maybe we could make them listen to Selena Gomez thats torture for me.

dragonridr

KrzYma

colbe

KrzYma

colbe
People, you can't go on with your disbelief and denial. If the God I know does not exist, I would not want to live another moment. Pray, speak to God (Our Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

So, the men who knew Jesus and passed on their witness of His life and miracles were all liars? People die for Christ, all the martyrs for 2000 years, even to this day (ie: Syria). They're wrong too. No...!!!

Check this out, it is so cool, video of the Upper Room. The room of the Last Supper, where Jesus instituted the Eucharist and Mary and the Apostles, disciples received God the Holy Spirit *Pentecost*.

jerusalemexperience.com...

your life !
I could argue the other way, if God exists, I would not want to live another moment...

why??

I did nothing wrong according to the religion ? ANY religion!
HALLO??? take me to HAVEN!

why do I have to stay with this horrible, horrible human beings ? greedy selfish arrogant killers ?!?!

You have a knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, good and evil and you have the gift to choose. What are you
choosing?

"Greedy, selfish, arrogant killers" are not of God.

they are sure not of God, what to do ? kill them all ??
kill all Godless people ??

kinda harsh cant we just send them to bed without supper. Or maybe we could make them listen to Selena Gomez thats torture for me.

HAHA

The Bible was written over the span of 1600 years, coming from three different continents.

It was written in two completely different languages and cultures (the Old Testament in the ancient Hebrew language, and the New Testament in Greek.)

It is a compilation of 66 different books written by over 40 individual men. There are no significant contradictions between any of them. Yet few of these individuals had any direct contact with the other authors. There were shepherds, military officers, farmers, government leaders, fishermen, a doctor, a servant, a king, and a tax collector, to name a few. Imagine all of these authors getting together to write a book. That book would be a mess? Not if that book is the Bible.

There is a common and consistent theological theme throughout the entire context of the Bible. For example, the first and last books (Genesis and Revelation), parallel each other extensively. Anyone who studies this book with any degree of open mindedness, cannot help but see the fact that one volume (penned by over 40 men over 1600 years), was actually orchestrated by One Intelligent Mind.

The books of the Bible not only agree and complement one another, but they promote one huge central theme—the redemption of man through God’s Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Unlike the Koran or Book of Mormon, nobody ever planned the Bible—it did not come from a single source (Mohammed or Joseph Smith). The pieces came from all over the geological map, and then just fell into place. Only a single intelligent Mind could orchestrate and be in control of such a harmonious "haphazard" process. UNLIKE ALL OTHER WORKS, THIS FACT PROVES THAT MAN COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE AUTHOR.

While the Bible is not a textbook on science, it does contain scientific statements, all of which are true. Consider these.

The Bible says that the earth is spherical or round, when for centuries every civilization taught that the earth was flat. (Prov. 8:27, Isa. 40:22).

The Bible says that the earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7). Before 1000 AD the Egyptians said that the earth was held up by five pillars.

The Bible says that the universe is decaying (Isa, 51:6, Heb. 1:10-11). This scientific statement is evidenced now by the recently discovered Second Law of Thermodynamics.

The Bible says that the stars cannot be numbered (Jer. 33:22). Early scientists thought they could count the stars. In 150 AD, Ptolomy counted 1056 stars and announced that there could not possibly be more than 3000. In 1608 AD, Galileo announced that stars are innumerable after his observations with a telescope.

Consider these few Old Testament prophecies predicting the birth of Christ, hundreds of years before the events took place. The Bible is full of hundreds of very specific prophecies that all came to pass. Not one of them missed the mark.

His virgin birth (Isa. 7:14, fulfilled Mat. 1:22-23).

His birth in the town of Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2, fulfilled Mat. 2:1).

Infants slain at time of Christ’s birth by Herod (Jer. 3:15, fulfilled Mat. 2:16-18).

Christ would also come out of Egypt (Hos. 11:1, fulfilled Mat. 2:14-15).

Likewise there are over 30 specific prophecies concerning the death, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Christ, all of which came to pass.

The word "history" can actually be said to be "His-story," as even the very basis of our calendar (B.C. and A.D.), pivots on the birth of Christ. Easter is universally recognized and celebrated the world over. Even the most hardened skeptics admit that historically, at the time of the "resurrection," something definitely took place in Palestine that turned Jerusalem and the then known world upside down.

The physical and biological resurrection of Jesus Christ from physical death (after being in the tomb three and one half days) is the one fact that separates the Bible and Christianity from every other religion. No other belief system has a resurrected and living Saviour. Mohammed is in his grave. Buddha is in his grave. After Jesus rose from the dead, He was seen by numerous of His followers including over 500 brethren at once (1 Cor. 15:6).

The historical accuracy of the Bible is beyond debate. No glaring or fatal flaws and inaccuracies have ever been found (only ambiguous nit picky stuff that skeptics desperately try to come up with). The Bible is an accurate historical account in every respect.

rationalwiki.org... ence_of_Jesus_Christ

i think the page is sufficient view for most of people here.

"Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ) as portrayed in the Bible is only found in three places: the Bible itself, other early Christian writings, and references by the various early churches (c. 100 CE) to the long dead leader of those churches. There are no contemporaneous sources outside of the early Christian community.
Historians focusing on this era generally accept that there was likely an individual named Jesus who lived in Palestine roughly two millennia ago, had a very small following of people studying his views, was killed by the government, and whose life became pivotal to some of the world's largest religions. Beyond this, however, there is no evidence over the accuracy of any of the descriptions of his life, as described in the Bible or as understood by his believers. A small minority, past[1] and present[2] believe there is insufficient justification to assume any individual human seed for the stories, representing an extreme in the other end of belief."

SoulWars
There is a common and consistent theological theme throughout the entire context of the Bible. For example, the first and last books (Genesis and Revelation), parallel each other extensively. Anyone who studies this book with any degree of open mindedness, cannot help but see the fact that one volume (penned by over 40 men over 1600 years), was actually orchestrated by One Intelligent Mind.

There are PLENTY of HUGE contradictions in the bible. Here is a visual representation of ALL of them:

Contradictions in the bible

Of course the biggest one in my opinion is the fact that when you jump from the OT to the NT, God's entire personality does a complete 180. He goes from being a destructive, wraithful being to a loving thing that wants to save all of humanity. The differences in personality are SO great that it's almost like he is a different entity altogether.

The books of the Bible not only agree and complement one another, but they promote one huge central theme—the redemption of man through God’s Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Maybe the NT, the OT seems to be about how God can screw with humans the most. Killing large swaths of them for stupid reasons like sodomy while condoning slavery and child murder (seriously read Leviticus, it's awful on all accounts). Heck, poor Job gets literally screwed with by God over a fricking BET with the devil.

Unlike the Koran or Book of Mormon, nobody ever planned the Bible—it did not come from a single source (Mohammed or Joseph Smith). The pieces came from all over the geological map, and then just fell into place. Only a single intelligent Mind could orchestrate and be in control of such a harmonious "haphazard" process. UNLIKE ALL OTHER WORKS, THIS FACT PROVES THAT MAN COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE AUTHOR.

The bible was assembled at the Council of Nicaea. They left books out while assembling the bible. I don't know what you call it, but I call that planned.

While the Bible is not a textbook on science, it does contain scientific statements, all of which are true. Consider these.

The Bible says that the earth is spherical or round, when for centuries every civilization taught that the earth was flat. (Prov. 8:27, Isa. 40:22).

WRONG! Every civilization prior to the Middle Ages KNEW the earth was round. The Greeks actually calculated the circumference of the earth. It was the Christians post-Roman Empire that decided the Earth was flat. And where did they get this inspiration? The BIBLE.

The Bible says that the earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7). Before 1000 AD the Egyptians said that the earth was held up by five pillars.

Except the earth doesn't HANG either. It is hurtling through space at millions of miles per hour in many different directions simultaneously. Oh yeah and space isn't empty either.

The Bible says that the universe is decaying (Isa, 51:6, Heb. 1:10-11). This scientific statement is evidenced now by the recently discovered Second Law of Thermodynamics.

The Bible says that the stars cannot be numbered (Jer. 33:22). Early scientists thought they could count the stars. In 150 AD, Ptolomy counted 1056 stars and announced that there could not possibly be more than 3000. In 1608 AD, Galileo announced that stars are innumerable after his observations with a telescope.

The stars can be counted. Scientists have estimated that there are around 500 billion stars in the galaxy with around 300 billion galaxies in the universe. We may not know the exact number of stars, but there is definitely a finite amount of stars in the universe. Meaning we can place a number as to the total number of stars.

Consider these few Old Testament prophecies predicting the birth of Christ, hundreds of years before the events took place. The Bible is full of hundreds of very specific prophecies that all came to pass. Not one of them missed the mark.

His virgin birth (Isa. 7:14, fulfilled Mat. 1:22-23).

His birth in the town of Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2, fulfilled Mat. 2:1).

Infants slain at time of Christ’s birth by Herod (Jer. 3:15, fulfilled Mat. 2:16-18).

Christ would also come out of Egypt (Hos. 11:1, fulfilled Mat. 2:14-15).

Likewise there are over 30 specific prophecies concerning the death, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Christ, all of which came to pass.

60 Prophecies of Jesus Debunked

Of course, I know you won't read that link so I'll answer this point anyways. We have been debating for PAGES whether Jesus even existed and we've also said that if he did exist, most of the things that are written about Jesus are fake. THEREFORE, any prophecy that Jesus may have fulfilled was probably due to early bible writers altering Jesus' life to conform to the prophecies. For instance, the two gospels that were written closest to when Jesus lived make NO mention of Jesus' birth, but the ones that were written hundred or two years afterwards did. How did they suddenly know how Jesus was born and when didn't the earlier gospel writers think it was important to mention these things?

Seriously, you haven't said anything that hasn't been debunked a thousand times and only makes sense to someone with a confirmation bias.

SoulWars
The word "history" can actually be said to be "His-story," as even the very basis of our calendar (B.C. and A.D.), pivots on the birth of Christ. Easter is universally recognized and celebrated the world over. Even the most hardened skeptics admit that historically, at the time of the "resurrection," something definitely took place in Palestine that turned Jerusalem and the then known world upside down.

Easter, just like Christmas, was a pagan holiday hijacked by the early Christians when they couldn't get the people to stop celebrating it. So they just slapped a bunch of Christian meaning onto it and called it a day. Easter History

The physical and biological resurrection of Jesus Christ from physical death (after being in the tomb three and one half days) is the one fact that separates the Bible and Christianity from every other religion. No other belief system has a resurrected and living Saviour. Mohammed is in his grave. Buddha is in his grave. After Jesus rose from the dead, He was seen by numerous of His followers including over 500 brethren at once (1 Cor. 15:6).

Prove that this even happened. Don't use the bible.

The historical accuracy of the Bible is beyond debate. No glaring or fatal flaws and inaccuracies have ever been found (only ambiguous nit picky stuff that skeptics desperately try to come up with). The Bible is an accurate historical account in every respect.

edit on 9-1-2014 by SoulWars because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-1-2014 by SoulWars because: spelling errors

Eh? You should go back and reread this thread. The historical accuracy is shaky at best, and downright WRONG in other places. There is no evidence of the Moses account. Noah's ark is just flat out impossible (explain to me how he kept all the carnivores from eating the other animals or how he kept the termites from destroying the ship).Where is all the evidence that Jesus performed miracles (if he even existed)?

Of course, I noticed that in both of your posts you failed to post ANY links to back up your claims. So that goes to show you are just blinded by confirmation bias.

dragonridr

Krazysh0t

dragonridr

windword
reply to post by dragonridr

 

So every religion will have its start with a person in the case of christianity its very well documented who actually started it. There is no doubt in any scholars mind that Jesus created Christianity now did he do the things the bible claims? Well thats another debate entirely and one im not willing to get in to.

So, by your logic, Yahweh, Jehovah, Baal, El Elyon were also all real people. If you're right, and all these, so called, deities were based on real people, then they weren't really gods, were they? So, it follows then, that Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed, was just a person that was deified through rumors that turned to myth. In other words, he wasn't born from a virgin, didn't perform the miracles, didn't die for sin and didn't rise from the dead and wasn't "The Christ".

On another note, Jesus didn't create Christianity. Biblical Jesus didn't teach anything so new or unique that it required a new religion.

edit on 9-1-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)

Well the topic of the thread was did he exist not was he the son of god. Even i know better than to touch that one thats a matter of faith. However as far as him not touching something new your entirely wrong his ideas were actually radical for the time. You must look at the abrahamic text just to see how far his teachings differed from the temples at that time. You might say he was the Ghandi of that time as well as his teachings even contradict jewish laws at the time. He believed in a more spiritual relationship where jews believed in a more physical relationship. To hebrews at the time god told them what to do Jesus on the other hand flipped it and said you must accept god.

His teachings were radical for that section of the world. If he had been born in the far east, he would have fit right in with the Buddhists, which is why I believe that he was studying Buddhism during those 20 lost years of his life.

Well see we came to an agreement he did exist as far as the far east philosophies yes there appears to be vedic teachings involved. But the question is did he receive them from a vedic monk or where they introduced culturally.The entire area of galilee was in major turmoil the jews started questioning their own faith. They were in search of a new belief system this is how people like John the Baptist gained his following and yes he existed too. But these people like john the baptist and Jesus were radicals they were literally bucking authority of the romans. The Romans tolerated it to an extent but in the end the person usually wind up dead.

I'm actually agnostic about the whole Jesus existing or not. He could have, he may not have. I just look at his teaching as well as the account of his life and notice similarities between them and Buddhism. I also see the 20 missing years of his life and understand that the RCC has a deep and tired tradition of being absolutely corrupt to the core and it would be no surprise if they suppressed the information that Jesus was a Buddhist (can't spread your religion if at the core it is another religion I guess..?)

Krazysh0t

SoulWars
There is a common and consistent theological theme throughout the entire context of the Bible. For example, the first and last books (Genesis and Revelation), parallel each other extensively. Anyone who studies this book with any degree of open mindedness, cannot help but see the fact that one volume (penned by over 40 men over 1600 years), was actually orchestrated by One Intelligent Mind.

There are PLENTY of HUGE contradictions in the bible. Here is a visual representation of ALL of them:

Contradictions in the bible

Of course the biggest one in my opinion is the fact that when you jump from the OT to the NT, God's entire personality does a complete 180. He goes from being a destructive, wraithful being to a loving thing that wants to save all of humanity. The differences in personality are SO great that it's almost like he is a different entity altogether.

The books of the Bible not only agree and complement one another, but they promote one huge central theme—the redemption of man through God’s Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Maybe the NT, the OT seems to be about how God can screw with humans the most. Killing large swaths of them for stupid reasons like sodomy while condoning slavery and child murder (seriously read Leviticus, it's awful on all accounts). Heck, poor Job gets literally screwed with by God over a fricking BET with the devil.

Unlike the Koran or Book of Mormon, nobody ever planned the Bible—it did not come from a single source (Mohammed or Joseph Smith). The pieces came from all over the geological map, and then just fell into place. Only a single intelligent Mind could orchestrate and be in control of such a harmonious "haphazard" process. UNLIKE ALL OTHER WORKS, THIS FACT PROVES THAT MAN COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE AUTHOR.

The bible was assembled at the Council of Nicaea. They left books out while assembling the bible. I don't know what you call it, but I call that planned.

While the Bible is not a textbook on science, it does contain scientific statements, all of which are true. Consider these.

The Bible says that the earth is spherical or round, when for centuries every civilization taught that the earth was flat. (Prov. 8:27, Isa. 40:22).

WRONG! Every civilization prior to the Middle Ages KNEW the earth was round. The Greeks actually calculated the circumference of the earth. It was the Christians post-Roman Empire that decided the Earth was flat. And where did they get this inspiration? The BIBLE.

The Bible says that the earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7). Before 1000 AD the Egyptians said that the earth was held up by five pillars.

Except the earth doesn't HANG either. It is hurtling through space at millions of miles per hour in many different directions simultaneously. Oh yeah and space isn't empty either.

The Bible says that the universe is decaying (Isa, 51:6, Heb. 1:10-11). This scientific statement is evidenced now by the recently discovered Second Law of Thermodynamics.

The Bible says that the stars cannot be numbered (Jer. 33:22). Early scientists thought they could count the stars. In 150 AD, Ptolomy counted 1056 stars and announced that there could not possibly be more than 3000. In 1608 AD, Galileo announced that stars are innumerable after his observations with a telescope.

The stars can be counted. Scientists have estimated that there are around 500 billion stars in the galaxy with around 300 billion galaxies in the universe. We may not know the exact number of stars, but there is definitely a finite amount of stars in the universe. Meaning we can place a number as to the total number of stars.

Consider these few Old Testament prophecies predicting the birth of Christ, hundreds of years before the events took place. The Bible is full of hundreds of very specific prophecies that all came to pass. Not one of them missed the mark.

His virgin birth (Isa. 7:14, fulfilled Mat. 1:22-23).

His birth in the town of Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2, fulfilled Mat. 2:1).

Infants slain at time of Christ’s birth by Herod (Jer. 3:15, fulfilled Mat. 2:16-18).

Christ would also come out of Egypt (Hos. 11:1, fulfilled Mat. 2:14-15).

Likewise there are over 30 specific prophecies concerning the death, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Christ, all of which came to pass.

60 Prophecies of Jesus Debunked

Of course, I know you won't read that link so I'll answer this point anyways. We have been debating for PAGES whether Jesus even existed and we've also said that if he did exist, most of the things that are written about Jesus are fake. THEREFORE, any prophecy that Jesus may have fulfilled was probably due to early bible writers altering Jesus' life to conform to the prophecies. For instance, the two gospels that were written closest to when Jesus lived make NO mention of Jesus' birth, but the ones that were written hundred or two years afterwards did. How did they suddenly know how Jesus was born and when didn't the earlier gospel writers think it was important to mention these things?

Seriously, you haven't said anything that hasn't been debunked a thousand times and only makes sense to someone with a confirmation bias.

edit on 10-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

You forgot that Jesus himself was aware of scripture and did his best to mimic it like riding into Jerusalem on a donkey.He chose to do this because he knew the scripture it wasnt a coincidence.

reply to post by dragonridr


Why yes, self-fulfilling prophecies are in there as well. But you've got me kind of confused since by admitting that, you are kind of siding with my side of the argument that these supposed confirmed "prophecies" aren't as miraculous as Christians like to make them out to be.

Krazysh0t

dragonridr

Krazysh0t

dragonridr

windword
reply to post by dragonridr

 

So every religion will have its start with a person in the case of christianity its very well documented who actually started it. There is no doubt in any scholars mind that Jesus created Christianity now did he do the things the bible claims? Well thats another debate entirely and one im not willing to get in to.

So, by your logic, Yahweh, Jehovah, Baal, El Elyon were also all real people. If you're right, and all these, so called, deities were based on real people, then they weren't really gods, were they? So, it follows then, that Jesus of Nazareth, if he existed, was just a person that was deified through rumors that turned to myth. In other words, he wasn't born from a virgin, didn't perform the miracles, didn't die for sin and didn't rise from the dead and wasn't "The Christ".

On another note, Jesus didn't create Christianity. Biblical Jesus didn't teach anything so new or unique that it required a new religion.

edit on 9-1-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)

Well the topic of the thread was did he exist not was he the son of god. Even i know better than to touch that one thats a matter of faith. However as far as him not touching something new your entirely wrong his ideas were actually radical for the time. You must look at the abrahamic text just to see how far his teachings differed from the temples at that time. You might say he was the Ghandi of that time as well as his teachings even contradict jewish laws at the time. He believed in a more spiritual relationship where jews believed in a more physical relationship. To hebrews at the time god told them what to do Jesus on the other hand flipped it and said you must accept god.

His teachings were radical for that section of the world. If he had been born in the far east, he would have fit right in with the Buddhists, which is why I believe that he was studying Buddhism during those 20 lost years of his life.

Well see we came to an agreement he did exist as far as the far east philosophies yes there appears to be vedic teachings involved. But the question is did he receive them from a vedic monk or where they introduced culturally.The entire area of galilee was in major turmoil the jews started questioning their own faith. They were in search of a new belief system this is how people like John the Baptist gained his following and yes he existed too. But these people like john the baptist and Jesus were radicals they were literally bucking authority of the romans. The Romans tolerated it to an extent but in the end the person usually wind up dead.

I'm actually agnostic about the whole Jesus existing or not. He could have, he may not have. I just look at his teaching as well as the account of his life and notice similarities between them and Buddhism. I also see the 20 missing years of his life and understand that the RCC has a deep and tired tradition of being absolutely corrupt to the core and it would be no surprise if they suppressed the information that Jesus was a Buddhist (can't spread your religion if at the core it is another religion I guess..?)

When you look at things like the The Gospel of Mary there is definitely vedic teachings is this a coincidence? I dont know the answer to that one.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Why yes, self-fulfilling prophecies are in there as well. But you've got me kind of confused since by admitting that, you are kind of siding with my side of the argument that these supposed confirmed "prophecies" aren't as miraculous as Christians like to make them out to be.

Simple you made an assumption on my beliefs just because i correct you doesnt mean i disagree it simply meant you were wrong and Jesus did exist.

dragonridr

Krazysh0t
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Why yes, self-fulfilling prophecies are in there as well. But you've got me kind of confused since by admitting that, you are kind of siding with my side of the argument that these supposed confirmed "prophecies" aren't as miraculous as Christians like to make them out to be.

Simple you made an assumption on my beliefs just because i correct you doesnt mean i disagree it simply meant you were wrong and Jesus did exist.

But see there are two different levels of existence being discussed in this thread (and it would have been nice if the OP had elaborated this point). Did an ACTUAL man named Jesus exist who was a decent spiritual leader? And also, is this Jesus the same one that is depicted in the bible and did he perform and do the things the bible says he did? I'd say that the jury is still out on the first question and that the second question is probably not true.

Krazysh0t

dragonridr

Krazysh0t
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Why yes, self-fulfilling prophecies are in there as well. But you've got me kind of confused since by admitting that, you are kind of siding with my side of the argument that these supposed confirmed "prophecies" aren't as miraculous as Christians like to make them out to be.

Simple you made an assumption on my beliefs just because i correct you doesnt mean i disagree it simply meant you were wrong and Jesus did exist.

But see there are two different levels of existence being discussed in this thread (and it would have been nice if the OP had elaborated this point). Did an ACTUAL man named Jesus exist who was a decent spiritual leader? And also, is this Jesus the same one that is depicted in the bible and did he perform and do the things the bible says he did? I'd say that the jury is still out on the first question and that the second question is probably not true.

edit on 10-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

You made me laugh nothing in life is black and white at least that i have found only different degrees of grey.Did Jesus exist I have no doubt. Did he teach the gospels probably was he the son of god? Well the last one is the matter of faith. Since faith by its very definition is unprovable its for the individual to decide.

Our lively discussion has carried us far from the question in original post. Understandable as this is a contentious subject for many of us.

The original post and question has to do with evidence for a historical Jesus that is OUTSIDE the Biblical texts. We've allowed the tangential (and irrelevant) question of Bible references and authenticity to cloud the issue.

There are no unquestionably reliable contemporary references or evidence for Jesus. I think we've answered the question.