Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

reply to post by daskakik

Then you must be doing something that nobody does or that a whole lot do but call it something else.

That's correct my good member and I'm sure you are familiar with it. It's called "The Living Bible "
because it is Gods message to the world. Alive because the truth lives forever and Jesus Christ
is the word. An asset to humanity so lost, with no direction home.



But good luck on your chosen path Das.

randyvs
reply to post by daskakik

 

Nobody believes in myths, that's why they're called myths.

There are quite a few people who believe in myths. We tend to call them Christians, Muslims, Jews, or just religious.

reply to post by dragonridr

So once again you returned and told you were wrong when are you going to check out what people have told you? At least it looks like you finally agree they were not refereed to as nazarites so thats a start i guess.

Where do you get that? Where do get you off telling me that I have "been told"? Nowhere did I agree to anything of the sort! Go back and read all my posts in this thread. I'm not going to repost arguments that you and others have ignored and are unable to address.

This is the kind of arrogance that exposes the desperate tactics that fundamentalists resort to when cornered, as demonstrated in this thread. They adjust reality to suit their intellectually dishonest agenda. Your comment is representative a complete denial of evidence in lieu of pleas to authority, willingness to present blatant lies and forgeries as truth, mockery and insult of those who would question their version of truth and the authenticity of the Bible Then add to that the accusations of immorality and debauchery and the threats of eternal damnation, and it's easy to see that fundamental Christians WILL resort to dishonest lengths to defend their mythology and claim a false victory.

All the derision and hostility is levied against unbelievers because the Roman Catholic Church hijacked a religious movement and wrote a bible that declared itself an ineffable truth and gave themselves, and themselves only, the authority to interpret it and control the administration of justice of their new religion to those who were determined heretics of their personal agenda.

The Biblical Jesus has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with control and human slavery to religion, which is what his mythical existence was intended to do. Now that the church is no longer able to murder dissenters, the dialogue can finally find some balance, the myth can be dissected and the control over the brainwashed masses and hypnotic states of blind faith can be broken.

Go ahead and live in your world of dishonesty and lies. It won't change the fact that there is absolutely no proof of the historical existence of the biblical character, Jesus Christ, outside of the Bible.

reply to post by BO XIAN

They simply CANNOT see the truth.

And that's why I symbolize the broken heart.
I can imagine what it does to God because I often
feel mine own heart sink for them. But I'm just a
whiny, melodramatic, over emotional, follower of
Christ. Who died in absolute obscurity yet to this day
80 % of a country that wasn't even on the radar at that time,
believe he is the Son of God. And I only say " Believe"
to be politically correct for our non believers. The spiritually
weak. I'd say maybe 99% of that eighty. Would say they know
he is the Son of God.

reply to post by windword


Agreed. It certainly gets tiresome being told you are evil or "attacking" Christianity when you point out the flaws in their rhetoric. Like because I don't believe the Christian account, somehow that makes me a bad person or something and worth spending eternity in a lake of fire. Do these guys ever do the math? Humans live on average about 75 years before they die. Eternity is millions and billions and trillions of more years. So basically, the actions we do for some percentage of eternity so close to zero that it might as well be zero effect what happens to us for the rest of that time. That is utterly ridiculous. Even the massacres and genocides by despots like Hitler and Stalin are just blips on the scale of things. (It doesn't help that hell was an invention by the RCC to control masses and convert them through fear)

This is why Christianity makes me angry. Christians have the AUDACITY to not only create such a despicable concept (hell), but actively condemn people to it for a length of time that the human brain isn't even capable of processing and all for something as simple as not believing the plot hole riddled book of scripture that they slap in everyone's faces. Then they have the gall to call us stubborn and not open to the truth (lol).

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Why do you spend your time writing drivel ? What you wrote amounts to
a ball faced lie. I don't understand how easily you cross that threshold back and
forth. If it were as easy as all that no one would believe.

You're not even a decent scientific thinker if you can spout crap like that.
It demonstrates a willingness to hide the truth. And I'd appreciate it, if you
just didn't reply to me at all. If you're just going blow pure BS out your ass.
And try to blow smoke up everyone elses.

reply to post by randyvs

Why do you spend your time writing drivel ? What you wrote amounts to
a ball faced lie. I don't understand how easily you cross that threshold back and
forth. If it were as easy as all that no one would believe.

Hey randy.

Why do you call it 'drivel'? He makes very good sense to me.

reply to post by randyvs

Randy: Nobody believes in myths, that's why they're called myths.

Krazyshot: There are quite a few people who believe in myths. We tend to call them Christians, Muslims, Jews, or just religious.

Randy: Why do you spend your time writing drivel ? What you wrote amounts to
a ball faced lie. I don't understand how easily you cross that threshold back and
forth. If it were as easy as all that no one would believe.

You're not even a decent scientific thinker if you can spout crap like that.
It demonstrates a willingness to hide the truth. And I'd appreciate it, if you
just didn't reply to me at all. If you're just going blow pure BS out your ass.
And try to blow smoke up everyone elses.

And, there it is again! Feigned righteous indignation, intellectual dishonesty, personal attacks and insults........all for nothing!

myth (mth)
n.
1.
a. A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
b. Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.
2. A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal: a star whose fame turned her into a myth; the pioneer myth of suburbia.
3. A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.
4. A fictitious story, person, or thing: "German artillery superiority on the Western Front was a myth" (Leon Wolff).

daskakik

BO XIAN
Clearly too many folks on the other side of these issues have not sufficiently investigated the solid Biblical translations.

Then there are those who understand that solid translations don't turn myths into facts.

Saying that simply shows yet another know not what is a myth or a solid translation is. You have some idea that never did a scholar take hold of translation the bible. Yep no educated folks every took on the task. It was all done by ignorant "c" student dropouts without any integrity whatsoever.

randyvs
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Why do you spend your time writing drivel ? What you wrote amounts to
a ball faced lie. I don't understand how easily you cross that threshold back and
forth. If it were as easy as all that no one would believe.

You're not even a decent scientific thinker if you can spout crap like that.
It demonstrates a willingness to hide the truth. And I'd appreciate it, if you
just didn't reply to me at all. If you're just going blow pure BS out your ass.
And try to blow smoke up everyone elses.

Aww... Did I offend you? What I said was most definitely the truth, your camp certainly hasn't brought forth any additional proof in this thread, any other thread on the subject, or ever to substantiate the claims of the bible. Even a small amount of critical thinking and an unbiased approach to the bible will tell you that the story isn't true or even possible to be true.

Logarock

daskakik

BO XIAN
Clearly too many folks on the other side of these issues have not sufficiently investigated the solid Biblical translations.

Then there are those who understand that solid translations don't turn myths into facts.

Saying that simply shows yet another know not what is a myth or a solid translation is. You have some idea that never did a scholar take hold of translation the bible. Yep no educated folks every took on the task. It was all done by ignorant "c" student dropouts without any integrity whatsoever.

Translating the bible, no matter how accurately, doesn't prove its veracity. I don't know where you got that idea from. If I accurately translate the Illiad to 5 different languages without losing the message, it doesn't prove that the Illiad is true. Why do you hold the bible differently?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Why waste the time? Its clear, although you might not see it, that you are undereducated on the matter and are simply passing off anti christian talking points as if they had some depth of scholarship.

reply to post by randyvs


Much agree, Randy,

Used to be even the titles of their baiting threads like this one would grieve me to the bone marrow. Partly for The Lord's Name and partly for their utter unmitigated . . . . seemingly terminal lostness.

NonBiblical references have been moderately extensively cited in this thread and they REFUSE

ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to even admit that.

That kind of arrogance has increased exponentially in our era. That's the kind of arrogance that got satan kicked out of Heaven.

And the sources they cite . . . stupidity piled on top of idiocy pretending to be erudition . . . on top of arrogance. Those characters don't seem to be able to tell which end is up, much less the true facts about the authentic Savior.

It is scheduled to get worse. AT some point, it will be a crime to claim that Jesus is Lord and maybe even that He existed.

It's easy to see a certain cadre from here cheering that day. But not cheering too many years thereafter.

And they certainly have absolutely NO clue about a more . . . functional fact in some respects . . . to most of us serious intrinsic Christians, 2,000 year old history is significant enough and certainly the Resurrection is critical.

However, we walk, breathe, overcome . . . by the Blood of The Lamb and the word of our testimony NOW BECAUSE we walk and talk with Him daily. He IS ALIVE IN OUR LIVES. He is our Friend, Brother, Joint Heir, Lord actively now. Knowing Him in tangible literal daily terms is what keeps us going in this sin infested puss pocket of a corrupted planet.

It's interesting that whenever I've cited His miracles over the course of my life . . . like rain on 4 sides of a drying hayfield but not on the drying hay . . . they ignore it or can't or refuse to believe such was really true.

What arrogant cluelessness. They assume that their experience is the sum total summary of reality.

Jesus The Messiah actively helps us deal with the sin within and the sin without. Otherwise we'd be no better than the worst of our detractors.

Anyway--I agree about the broken heart.

It's just that some folks seem to have enjoyed luxuriating in such awfulness in terms of such outrageous arrogance, spitefulness, hostility etc. toward our Lord and even our persons . . . I don't have a lot of grief overflowing so frequently for them any longer. They have evidently determinedly made their bed and they will definitely lie in it. Some I still pray for. Some I don't.

And that IS frightful.

Logarock
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Why waste the time? Its clear, although you might not see it, that you are undereducated on the matter and are simply passing off anti christian talking points as if they had some depth of scholarship.

Deflection of the questions posed (not to mention an ad hominem attack on my character, though I'm not surprised that a Christian resorted to a logical fallacy. It's par the course and you just furthered the stereotype congrats). Answer my question. Why do you seem to think that an accurate translation of a book substantiates its veracity?

Krazysh0t

Logarock

daskakik

BO XIAN
Clearly too many folks on the other side of these issues have not sufficiently investigated the solid Biblical translations.

Then there are those who understand that solid translations don't turn myths into facts.

Saying that simply shows yet another know not what is a myth or a solid translation is. You have some idea that never did a scholar take hold of translation the bible. Yep no educated folks every took on the task. It was all done by ignorant "c" student dropouts without any integrity whatsoever.

Translating the bible, no matter how accurately, doesn't prove its veracity. I don't know where you got that idea from. If I accurately translate the Illiad to 5 different languages without losing the message, it doesn't prove that the Illiad is true. Why do you hold the bible differently?

edit on 8-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

That response has to do with folks that wright the bible off on translation issues. Such folks wouldn't know what veracity was in that area anyway.

There is an entire area of biblical study contributed to over centuries of manuscript translation and age. Reams of material on the matter. None of which 99.9% of scripture badmouthing on here knows anything about.

Krazysh0t

Logarock
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Why waste the time? Its clear, although you might not see it, that you are undereducated on the matter and are simply passing off anti christian talking points as if they had some depth of scholarship.

Deflection of the questions posed (not to mention an ad hominem attack on my character, though I'm not surprised that a Christian resorted to a logical fallacy. It's par the course and you just furthered the stereotype congrats). Answer my question. Why do you seem to think that an accurate translation of a book substantiates its veracity?

edit on 8-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

Here you go again with your typical BS. Never said an accurate translation substantiates veracity but was defending the veracity of translation which is another field and another area where the bible is attacked.

reply to post by Logarock


How many of those people aren't inherently biased towards Christianity being true because they are Christians? I'm going to say that anyone who researches the bible with a predisposition to it being true isn't going to provide anything of merit intellectually. Just like anything else, it requires skepticism to look at correctly.

Besides, with all the plot holes in the bible, you can create mounds of interpretations and rationalizations to explain them away. Still doesn't make anything true. Actually it's even worse. If you were to look at the bible as a piece of literature, it would be one of the worst written books of all time. Plot holes, inconsistency, one dimensional characters, abrupt stylistic changes, and that is just off the top of my head.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

How many of those people aren't inherently biased towards Christianity being true because they are Christians? I'm going to say that anyone who researches the bible with a predisposition to it being true isn't going to provide anything of merit intellectually. Just like anything else, it requires skepticism to look at correctly.

On those grounds I wouldn't trust a skeptic. Being a skeptic in itself does not necessarily lend to a favorable predisposition.


What it may require is a commitment to accuracy deep enough to die for which is what happened to early translators into English.

reply to post by BO XIAN

by the Blood of The Lamb and the word of our testimony NOW BECAUSE we walk and talk with Him daily. He IS ALIVE IN OUR LIVES. He is our Friend, Brother, Joint Heir, Lord actively now. Knowing Him in tangible literal daily terms is what keeps us going in this sin infested puss pocket of a corrupted planet.

You want to claim that this ^^ isn't mythology and is "truth? LOL!

Jesus, if he existed, was not a lamb and his blood is long gone! You do understand that, right? Your religion is based on mythology and symbolism that is NOT based in reality! Jesus is NOT alive, unless you believe in ghosts! You do understand that you are still a part of life and that you still live on this "infested puss pocket of a planet"?

And Christians think that they should be seen as role models!? LOL This is why many us deem that CHristians are immoral and can't be trusted to represent humanity or assist humanity in leadership such as governing, policing, justice or teaching us and especially not our children.

reply to post by Logarock

On those grounds I wouldn't trust a skeptic. Being a skeptic in itself does not necessarily lend to a favorable predisposition.

Then why should skeptics trust the apologists and believers?
On what 'grounds'?