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Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

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posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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vethumanbeing

Ophiuchus 13
It is good that metaphysical energy is emitted individually, 1 could imagine an advanced being, being able to SEE into the many souls intents telepathically and would work with the many who FEAR and are foolish... Its Ok the many unpolished lenses interpretations that is.


What is a metaphysical energy emitted individually that you are aware of and can explain? Are you speaking of 'lifeforce' or that radioactive thing that powers your being/seat of the soul/heart pump? The 'seeing part/telepathy to the outer worlds' or the pineal gland was shut down thousands of years ago by demi-gods trying to use this race as a slave race (Im just guessing here 400,000 thousand years ago).



The Frequency data and thoughts from the human physical brain associated with emotion and logic and acts combined with the Frequency generated from the physical heart also emotion associated.

If it was possible to be aware of these frequencies a formula can be made from the meta energy observed per being not only human... So a benevolent beings frequency would not be the same as a malevolent beings. In mass the groups are easier distinguished... Advanced being read the information. Follow it if need be.

Mass em field from individual em fields combined.

NAMASTE*******
edit on 1/5/14 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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Gryphon66
How is any atheist, agnostic, nonbeliever, unbeliever, heretic or whatever here "stuffing something down anyone's throat?" These are topical discussion forums and people, well, discuss things. How is it that merely seeing someone else's ideas or beliefs (or non-beliefs) somehow an ATTACK on Christians or Christianity? How is being unable to provide reasonable fact-based answers to questions some kind of persecution? We're here to DISCUSS! We're DISCUSSING. If anyone doesn't want to read these discussions, why do they click on them? How is the simple fact that people disagree with each other an attack? If they're being attacked, why do they keep posting the same responses over and over? Why not report it as abuse and move on? If you attack someone, why don't you expect retaliation in some way?

If there has ever been a group anywhere that could be called textbook passive-aggressive, it's probably 99% of the Christians I have known or witnessed speaking in person or on the net. That's not an attack, that's a statement of my experience. Typical Christians want to state their opinion, often based on nothing but faith, and they don't want anyone to say anything in disagreement. If you do, well, you're just wrong, often with no reasons offered. They don't deal with facts fairly; they use virtually every logical fallacy in the book (favorites seem to be strawman, loaded question and ad hominem), and they will not admit it when they are caught in mistake or intentional misrepresentation. (I have examples from ATS if you need them.)

And talking about a group that overall demonstrates arrogance and just plain bad manners ... wow.


Did I say that the discussion here was a demonstration of shoving a belief down someones throat? No I did not. I simply made mention that I have seen atheists do it. I didn't say this was an example....You simply assumed that.

And also, nonbelievers tend to lump the whole category of religious people into one gigantic pile...Which could not be any further from the truth.

My whole goal is to get everyone to deal with facts fairly...That is the reason I brought Pythagoras into the discussion....you know, to eliminate any BIAS. When we examine the lack of contemporary evidence for Jesus of Nazareth....Most of us already have a predetermined view on the subject of the historical Jesus....virtually no one has a predetermined view on the historicity of Pythagoras....it's called objectivity and I was trying to pull it all together for a change....but ATS will have none of that apparently...

A2D



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


Wow.

Well if you weren't talking about here (ATS) or here (this discussion) or here (this forum) what were you talking about? You made statements about what atheists and Christians do ... aren't there atheists and Christians HERE (any of the above)? Are you talking about another message board, another website, another country, another planet -- what?

You see, it's bringing up little nitpicking irrelevancies like that one and then acting like you've said something that make me feel that conversations of this type are pointless.

And this ... your phrase "nonbelievers tend to lump the whole category of religious people into one gigantic pile" ... look at it again for a second ... ... ... do you see what's wrong with it? You're lumping all "nonbelievers" into "one gigantic pile" YOURSELF! Doesn't your head hurt when you participate in that level of cognitive dissonance? Gee.

I can't help you with the lack of interest in your Pythagoras thing. I thought it had the potential to make excellent points both ways. Sorry mate.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:25 PM
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Ophiuchus 13
vethumanbeing
Ophiuchus 13
It is good that metaphysical energy is emitted individually, 1 could imagine an advanced being, being able to SEE into the many souls intents telepathically and would work with the many who FEAR and are foolish... Its Ok the many unpolished lenses interpretations that is.


veteranhumanbeing
What is a metaphysical energy emitted individually that you are aware of and can explain? Are you speaking of 'lifeforce' or that radioactive thing that powers your being/seat of the soul/heart pump? The 'seeing part/telepathy to the outer worlds' or the pineal gland was shut down thousands of years ago by demi-gods trying to use this race as a slave race (Im just guessing here 400,000 thousand years ago).



Ophiuchus13The Frequency data and thoughts from the human physical brain associated with emotion and logic and acts combined with the Frequency generated from the physical heart also emotion associated.


Those would be the adrenal glands and not heart related, those are the fear/flight mechanisms of EGO or adrenalin producing glands that are purely "escape a potentially bad situation" BODY REACTION. What are you calling frequency? The mind is the overlord processor, the heart is the seat or driver of the body soul/spirit; houses it). If you are talking data points, that would be the Absolute Unbounded Oneness that is digital (dim) in its awareness, you are its subset or a better description of itself (smaller compartmentalized) as we are its expression to better REFINE THE ultimate VISION of TOTAL SELF knowledge (a selfish endeavor BY IT). Hey no one gets a free pass.


Ophiuchus13
If it was possible to be aware of these frequencies a formula can be made from the meta energy observed per being not only human... So a benevolent beings frequency would not be the same as a malevolent beings. In mass the groups are easier distinguished... Advanced being read the information. Follow it if need be.NAMASTE*******


Why not? Id like to hear what a Fibinacci spiral sounds like; there is a formulae out there it exists in fractals that repeat; an algorithim. Malevolent beings have no course of action, the negative will be terminated as it/they cannot add anything but high entropy to this system of casual growth/natural propensity to an organised GROWTH. The whole point is to understand itself as a system of energy that continues to recognise this one thing; high entropy destroys by way of a slow decay of values/morals; a system based in free will as its expression the human will recognise the cancer negative and disregard it. SO, this is why demi gods or Non physical matter entities cannot pretend to be our gods anymore or meddle with this paradigm.
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Lots of quotes with no context as to your thoughts or a coherent response to my post = gibberish. Sorry but I have no idea what you mean with your response.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:41 PM
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vethumanbeing
Ophiuchus 13
vethumanbeing
Ophiuchus 13
It is good that metaphysical energy is emitted individually, 1 could imagine an advanced being, being able to SEE into the many souls intents telepathically and would work with the many who FEAR and are foolish... Its Ok the many unpolished lenses interpretations that is.



veteranhumanbeing
What is a metaphysical energy emitted individually that you are aware of and can explain? Are you speaking of 'lifeforce' or that radioactive thing that powers your being/seat of the soul/heart pump? The 'seeing part/telepathy to the outer worlds' or the pineal gland was shut down thousands of years ago by demi-gods trying to use this race as a slave race (Im just guessing here 400,000 thousand years ago).



Ophiuchus13The Frequency data and thoughts from the human physical brain associated with emotion and logic and acts combined with the Frequency generated from the physical heart also emotion associated.


Those would be the adrenal glands and not heart related, those are the fear/flight mechanisms of EGO or adrenalin producing glands that are purely "escape a potentially bad situation" BODY REACTION. What are you calling frequency? The mind is the overlord processor, the heart is the seat or driver of the body soul/spirit; houses it). If you are talking data points, that would be the Absolute Unbounded Oneness that is digital (dim) in its awareness, you are its subset or a better description of itself (smaller compartmentalized) as we are its expression to better REFINE THE ultimate VISION of TOTAL SELF knowledge (a selfish endeavor BY IT). Hey no one gets a free pass.


Ophiuchus13
If it was possible to be aware of these frequencies a formula can be made from the meta energy observed per being not only human... So a benevolent beings frequency would not be the same as a malevolent beings. In mass the groups are easier distinguished... Advanced being read the information. Follow it if need be.NAMASTE*******


Why not? Id like to hear what a Fibinacci spiral sounds like; there is a formulae out there it exists in fractals that repeat; an algorithim. Malevolent beings have no course of action, the negative will be terminated as it/they cannot add anything but high entropy to this system of casual growth/natural propensity to an organised GROWTH. The whole point is to understand itself as a system of energy that continues to recognise this one thing; high entropy destroys by way of a slow decay of values/morals; a system based in free will as its expression the human will recognise the cancer negative and disregard it. SO, this is why demi gods or Non physical matter entities cannot pretend to be our gods anymore or meddle with this paradigm.
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


It's not that they can't, it's just that they don't need to.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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GalzuFromQ

It's not that they can't, it's just that they don't need to.


How so? The human requires reasurrance and those that have dogmatic belief systems are still awaiting a 'messiah figure' or a new prophet. Again, is there not the temptation of the demi-god (the nonphysical matter reality overlords) to meddle with physical matter reality? Why do they not feel the need to overlay MORE UGLY architypal idea constructs anymore; is it because most of them were removed 2 years ago, and are afraid of the Entity or Thing that challenged/outsmarted them their philosophy and conquered by removing these overlays of fear based dogma. They had no idea what was happening.
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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Seems to me . . .

a more realistic, accurate, true to reality title would be . . .

Why Is There No Acceptance Of The Abundant Proof That Is Available Of Jesus' Existence By the So Called "logical" [cough cough] Objectivists On ATS?

Oh, right . . . this thread is not about Attachment Disorder, rebellion, narrowly rigid blind bias etc. LOL. My error. LOL.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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vethumanbeing

GalzuFromQ

It's not that they can't, it's just that they don't need to.


How so? The human requires reasurance and those that have dogmatic belief systems are still awaiting a 'messiah figure' or a new prophet. Again, is there not the temptation of the demi-god (the nonphysical matter reality overlords) to meddle with physical matter reality? Why do they not feel the need to overlay MORE UGLY architypal idea constructs anymore; is it because most of them were removed 2 years ago, and are afraid of the Source Entity that challenged them and conquered?
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Well, the "messiah figure" said "# it" and doesn't want anything to do with it. Those who were living in their 4th chakra prior to the transit of venus will finish balancing and will invoke the ark of the covenant when the polarity on their heart chakra reverses it'll open their crown and their etheric selves from the collapsed future time matrix will pour into their heads. Those who were living in ego won't balance the heart chakra and will feed off one another until they "fizzle" out.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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GalzuFromQ

vethumanbeing

GalzuFromQ

It's not that they can't, it's just that they don't need to.


How so? The human requires reasurance and those that have dogmatic belief systems are still awaiting a 'messiah figure' or a new prophet. Again, is there not the temptation of the demi-god (the nonphysical matter reality overlords) to meddle with physical matter reality? Why do they not feel the need to overlay MORE UGLY architypal idea constructs anymore; is it because most of them were removed 2 years ago, and are afraid of the Source Entity that challenged them and conquered?
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Well, the "messiah figure" said "# it" and doesn't want anything to do with it. Those who were living in their 4th chakra prior to the transit of venus will finish balancing and will invoke the ark of the covenant when the polarity on their heart chakra reverses it'll open their crown and their etheric selves from the collapsed future time matrix will pour into their heads. Those who were living in ego won't balance the heart chakra and will feed off one another until they "fizzle" out.


Well that is a very good way to put it (in anothers words/world) as it resonates TRUE (know this: Jesus feels himself a shill sacrifice still very angry about all that miscommunication with the demis and a 'church' he was not behind in creating, this was a mental thing spiritual not supposed to be a brick and mortar house full of copsed and mitred human overlords). Got to rid oneself of ego dramatization, heart chakra with mind (temple). Nice words from you GalzufromQ.
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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vethumanbeing

GalzuFromQ

vethumanbeing

GalzuFromQ

It's not that they can't, it's just that they don't need to.


How so? The human requires reasurance and those that have dogmatic belief systems are still awaiting a 'messiah figure' or a new prophet. Again, is there not the temptation of the demi-god (the nonphysical matter reality overlords) to meddle with physical matter reality? Why do they not feel the need to overlay MORE UGLY architypal idea constructs anymore; is it because most of them were removed 2 years ago, and are afraid of the Source Entity that challenged them and conquered?
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Well, the "messiah figure" said "# it" and doesn't want anything to do with it. Those who were living in their 4th chakra prior to the transit of venus will finish balancing and will invoke the ark of the covenant when the polarity on their heart chakra reverses it'll open their crown and their etheric selves from the collapsed future time matrix will pour into their heads. Those who were living in ego won't balance the heart chakra and will feed off one another until they "fizzle" out.


Well that is a very good way to put it (in anothers words/world) as it resonates TRUE (know this: Jesus feels himself a shill sacrifice still very angry about all that miscommunication with the demis and a 'church' he was not behind in creating, this was a mental thing spiritual not supposed to be a brick and mortar house full of copsed and mitred human overlords). Got to rid oneself of ego dramatization, heart chakra with mind (temple). Nice words from you GalzufromQ.
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


It resonates as truth because it is the truth. Not ego, but the state of unknowing. It's the self doubt that creeps up in the back of the psyche that caused the fall... beings being manipulated into believing lies and being led away from the truth thus into darkness.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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windword
LOL! The Bible doesn't prove the Bible is true! You can't use the Bible to prove Bible stories are true!


Yes they are true, because the Bible is 66 books, written by over 40 authors over a time span of 1,500 years
with the message of redemption of mankind through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for our sins.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:39 PM
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texastig

windword
LOL! The Bible doesn't prove the Bible is true! You can't use the Bible to prove Bible stories are true!


Yes they are true, because the Bible is 66 books, written by over 40 authors over a time span of 1,500 years
with the message of redemption of mankind through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for our sins.


Seems you know the path to redemption, may I ask... what is the path to redemption? Melchizedek is the Lord, AKA the holy spirit... not Jesus.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:42 PM
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Buttonlip
The only evidence Jesus ever existed lies within a book full of talking snakes and talking bushes. You proved NOTHING. Nice cherry picking too. Why no quotes from leviticus? Have you stoned your children yet for being disobedient or are you a blasphemer?


If there is no evidence that Jesus existed, then there is no evidence of any ancient person that lived.
You do know that some of the Caesars believed they were gods, can you write up something about that being wrong? But I know you won't do that because your biased against Christianity.
What about Leviticus? That was for the Jews. Christians don't live by Jewish laws.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:44 PM
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texastig

Buttonlip
The only evidence Jesus ever existed lies within a book full of talking snakes and talking bushes. You proved NOTHING. Nice cherry picking too. Why no quotes from leviticus? Have you stoned your children yet for being disobedient or are you a blasphemer?


If there is no evidence that Jesus existed, then there is no evidence of any ancient person that lived.
You do know that some of the Caesars believed they were gods, can you write up something about that being wrong? But I know you won't do that because your biased against Christianity.
What about Leviticus? That was for the Jews. Christians don't live by Jewish laws.


What if there's no evidence because the stories of antiquity are actually stories about future happenings?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:50 PM
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BO XIAN

Seems to me . . .

a more realistic, accurate, true to reality title would be . . .
Why Is There No Acceptance Of The Abundant Proof That Is Available Of Jesus' Existence By the So Called "logical" [cough cough] Objectivists On ATS?
Oh, right . . . this thread is not about Attachment Disorder, rebellion, narrowly rigid blind bias etc. LOL. My error. LOL.


Ian Rand lives? I thought her bedclothes (over time) gained scentience and smothered her (could not fully defend the Objectivist viewpoint). That would be one purely driven by Ego, time and place with no thought of the next generations (Physical Matter Reality) to come; or ones afterlife (they are not spiritual beings), this only a game in her time to to played with gusto neg/pos or whatever you gain materially from. Not sure Objectivism is moral. Its a negative presented as a positive, you can be a Carnegie, a Vanderbilt and still reap the positive as a moneymonger user of others resourses *slavery was allowed* All things ideawise are fair game as to your objective--material gain IS YOUR IMMEDIATE OBJECT (I suppose it explains itself doesnt it). Take everything as catch can; but this is limited and willnot and cannot define the negative forever (it will be terminated).
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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BO XIAN

Seems to me . . .

a more realistic, accurate, true to reality title would be . . .

Why Is There No Acceptance Of The Abundant Proof That Is Available Of Jesus' Existence By the So Called "logical" [cough cough] Objectivists On ATS?

Oh, right . . . this thread is not about Attachment Disorder, rebellion, narrowly rigid blind bias etc. LOL. My error. LOL.



Let's see ... strawman (check), loaded question (check), begging the question (check), and ad hominem (check). And probably appeal to authority and cherry-picking to round out an even half dozen.

What an amazingly concise example of logical fallacies! I stopped counting at six although there are probably another couple in there.

1. There is no proof, much less "abundant" of Jesus' existence. The so-called reasonable progression presented by some scholars that since "Christians" showed up in the 1st century in Rome, Antioch, etc. there must have been a recognizable movement, and since movements usually have some kind of figure-head leader, then Jesus must have existed in some form.

So if the evidence we have to accept is that there was some guy in Judea in 26-33 CE that went around preaching about God, claiming to be the Messiah, complaining about the Romans, was named Joshua (Yeshua, Jesua, Iesus, Isa, Etc.a) then okay. I accept that. Odds are there was at least one, probably more.

I will also observe, however, since there can be groups that exist based on the belief that a historical or legendary figure existed when there is no evidence that one did ... for example, modern Asatru who believe in Odin or Thor or any of the other Norse gods have become evident in the last 20 years or so.

Does the verifiable existence of Asatru believers in 2014 prove that Wotan and Thor existed at some previous time? Bah.

2. No one identifying themselves as Objectivists have participated in the discussion thus far. This is pure Red Herring (seven, seven logical fallacies!).



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by texastig
 





...............with the message of redemption of mankind through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for our sins............


I understand that is what you believe. However, it's just a belief, and nothing more. There are many people who've read the Bible and don't come away agreeing with you, or believe everything in the Bible to be true and reliable.

I don't know whether or not a character named Jesus, son of a carpenter in Nazareth really existed. But just because the Bible says that he existed as "God" incarnate through of a virgin birth, a God who came to earth to be a human sacrifice, to appease his angry alter ego, rose from the dead, walked on water, blah, blah blah............no I completely reject this notion as myth. Jesus "Christ" the mythical man god hero can't be proven to have existed anywhere except between the pages of the Bible.

The Bible doesn't, can't prove Bible stories to be true!


edit on 5-1-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 


So let me ask you all this, what would "the son of the creator of all" need to do/say in order for you to "believe"?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 09:26 PM
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GalzuFromQ
reply to post by Gryphon66
 


So let me ask you all this, what would "the son of the creator of all" need to do/say in order for you to "believe"?


Ask you 'all' this? My first question to the creator would be "are you sure I didnt create YOU first?" (simple ideaform for the human to have a better understanding of a god aspect to easily place blame upon something else rather than myself). For me to believe in a creator; Id have to understand I am IT just a bit marginalized in expression (not about to take over any nascent territories). I would ask god to prove its own existance without using me as its platform expression/best creation ever "the human".
edit on 5-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



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