It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Is that "Christ character" the same Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazereth the Son of God that sits at the center of Christianity? No.
Even you are acknowleding that this Founder figure did nothing that Jesus is credited with no miracles, no virgin birth, no resurrection, etc, etc.
Of course there is! We have Caesar's own writings and diaries, we have the records from the Senate and coins minted. There is an abundance of irrefutable proof for the existence of these people. The same standards that are set for proving the existence of the Caesars and Nero are the same proof that deny, or t the very least, leave gaping questions as to the existence of a character called Jesus the Nazarene. But the is ZERO evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is a figure that was created centuries after the fact, by the Roman Catholic Church.
windwordYou can quote him all you like, however, like most Christian apologetics, he is intellectually dishonest. The above statement is not only dishonest, it's an out and out lie.
You say that Professor Sanders says this: "Bibliographical (i.e., the textual tradition from the original document to the copies and manuscripts of that document we possess today)"
All this is your belief and your religion, but does nothing to prove that your biblical beliefs are based in historic reality.
Jesus, the Nazarene, if he existed, may have, in the company of followers been called a "messiah", but he was never called "Christ".
The earliest extant manuscripts (the physical record) for any part of the New Testament is 2nd Century
Quoting a site like "www.provethebible.com" as any sort of objective authority on the veracity of the BIble would be like taking the word of "www.vampiresarereal.com" on the biology of the undead or citing information on peaceful conflict resolution from "www.howtoblowstuffup.com."
haha I really don't care that much about those fables. It bothers me tho, to see some, in society being zombiefied from the brain eating disease called religion.
However, I rejoice in the fact, that they are a dieing breed!
Because the fiction of jesus and god are as real as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and all the other imaginary characters. Christianity is a cheap suit worn by racists, bigots and the narrow-minded hypocrite to justify the slaughter of those who don't believe in their comic book teachings, pedophilia, feelings of inferiority, hatred of others not like them and ignorance. It's a money making scam devised to separate the foolish from their money and provide the local priest/preacher with a free income, housing, cars and parishioners to freely molest.
There is no jesus, there is no god, there is no heaven or hell. From nothingness we come and to nothingness we shall return. We are a fluke and not a part of some grand scheme- not special, merely a gigantic accident.
reply to post by colbe
So because you say something unfounded with no links or proof backing it up, all of a sudden Jesus existed and the resurrection is true? I mean it's not like we haven't already talked about the Shroud of Turin in this very thread already...
www.abovetopsecret.com...edit on 3-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)
Scope and a Beam
I don't trust the bible as it is not a first-hand account
reply to post by randyvs
Umm ok. I am honest as I can be. I am, so sorry, I cant grip this Bible school logic.
Discussing the bible is like thinking you know how an insane person thinks.
When the god of the bible creates Adam and Eve, Without knowledge of the difference between right and wrong, And then punishes them for eating from the tree of knowledge, It's kinda like finding a wild wolf, Putting a steak in front of it, And then telling it not to eat it. Then when it does, you torture it (and every other wolf) for eternity.
But you love them really.
reply to post by randyvs
Not to mention the advantage you hold over religious people when you swoop into a thread. And bash the hell out of everything they believe of this existence. Without first putting your own ideology on the table to also be viewed under a microscope. And blaming religion on God, won't fly either. Religion is with man but God is in heaven. And he and also not everyone who believes in him, by way of Christ, is religious. I my self am not religious.
I don't swoop into a thread, (well maybe) I don't try to gain an advantage over anyone, I really try to gain an understanding. But, when it comes to the topic at hand it's simply impossible. It's not like I'm doing a drive by. My posts on the god-man are here for everyone to read. Those who read them, know my position.
I do fancy a good religious conversation time to time. As far as bashing them and their beliefs.. I don't think what I'm doing is even remotely close to what religious people and their beliefs have done to humans for the last 2000 years. And let me tell you, The religious can be pretty rank, with their dogma intertwined responses. That's not right....is it? Thought they had a set of rules to live by....
In your race to prove modern evidence is more valuable than older evidence you clearly missed the point of my original post. That happens when your so smart and so right all the time.
Noel, friend, you missed my point early on, in the first post that you responded to and in the second.
By my lights physical EVIDENCE is valuable, be it old or new. May I ask you to read what I said again?
IMAGES that are created at the same time that an individual is supposed to be alive help to verify that they were actually alive.
RECORDED writings BY an individual or ABOUT an individual during the span of their life helps to prove that they were actually alive.
When someone said we don't know if Lincoln lived, those items of EVIDENCE were what I commented on.
If we want to provide EVIDENCE about Jesus, we need the same kind of things. Not photos, not papers ... but EVIDENCE.
That's my only point, and I agree it should be blatantly obvious.
reply to post by C21H30O2I
Text When the god of the bible creates Adam and Eve, Without knowledge of the difference between right and wrong, And then punishes them for eating from the tree of knowledge, It's kinda like finding a wild wolf, Putting a steak in front of it, And then telling it not to eat it. Then when it does, you torture it (and every other wolf) for eternity.