Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

reply to post by MamaJ


It is my understanding that "Logos" is a Pythagorean/Platonic concept of manifestation through harmony/sound. The origins of the words and titles of Chrestus, Christos, Krishna and Christ, et al, are ancient and convoluted pagan terms for good people, followers of "the way", leaders, teachers and initiates of ancient mystery schools.

(5th BC Attic): IPA: /kʰri͜istós/
(1st BC Egyptian): IPA: /kʰriːstós/
(4th AD Koine): IPA: /xristós/
en.wiktionary.org...

windword
reply to post by MamaJ

 

It is my understanding that "Logos" is a Pythagorean/Platonic concept of manifestation through harmony/sound. The origins of the words and titles of Chrestus, Christos, Krishna and Christ, et al, are ancient and convoluted pagan terms for good people, followers of "the way", leaders, teachers and initiates of ancient mystery schools.

(5th BC Attic): IPA: /kʰri͜istós/
(1st BC Egyptian): IPA: /kʰriːstós/
(4th AD Koine): IPA: /xristós/
en.wiktionary.org...

Geometrical and so:
Jesus's Corporate Logo would be a 'CROSS'.
Pythagorus's would be a 'TRIANGLE'.
Harmony and sound? back in the day they all played wooden flute instuments or strumbed with sinue attached to again wood. Im confused as to what you would call music unless from the reed vocal chords of the human. Drumming on hide was another culture to the west.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Jesus's Corporate Logo would be a 'CROSS'.
Pythagorus's would be a 'TRIANGLE'.

I wonder what a "CROSS" sounds like....

Harmony and sound? back in the day they all played wooden flute instuments or strumbed with sinue attached to again wood. Im confused as to what you would call music unless from the reed vocal chords of the human. Drumming on hide was another culture to the west.

“There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres.”
Pythagoras

reply to post by windword

It is my understanding that "Logos" is a Pythagorean/Platonic concept of manifestation through harmony/sound. The origins of the words and titles of Chrestus, Christos, Krishna and Christ, et al, are ancient and convoluted pagan terms for good people, followers of "the way", leaders, teachers and initiates of ancient mystery schools.

Ok.... what I ask you is debatable however I want to give you my take on it.

Logos was usually identified as a type of divinity, or God in philosophy. A manifestation of sorts from the divine into the physical. It is my understanding that Christ can be interchangeable with Logos.

Pythagoras is said to have been influenced by Hermes/Thoth and Pytagoras himself was said to influence Plato.

Pythagoreanism's influence on the texts found in the hermetica corpus flows over into hermeticism, gnosticism and alchemy.

Keeping Logos in mind...

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.. around this time is when the Logos became the Christ.

Philo followed the Platonic philosophy during the Hellenistic period that there was a distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea, and therefore intermediary beings were necessary to bridge the gap between God and the material world. They followed the idea that reincarnation was a must and were believed to be vegetarians. The Logos was the highest of these intermediary beings, and was called by Philo "the first-born of God."

The Pythagoreans were advised to "speak the truth in all situations," which Pythagoras said he learned from the Magi of Babylon.

Before the Magi, there was Zoroaster, who was perceived by the Greeks to be the "Chaldean" or the founder" of the Magi and "inventor" of both astrology and magic.

Now.. in English, the term "magi" is most commonly used in reference to the Gospel of Matthew's "wise men from the East", or "three wise men". Makes me think of "thrice as great". Anyway...

The esoteric, the ancient belief, is there is in fact a transgression, or reincarnation of the spirit. The circle or.. wheel of life. The tree is rooted by many roots and how strong they are is what makes the tree stand tall and not wither.

If this is the case then, "Jesus", has had many lives. Word is he was the first Adam and the Last.

In order to truly know... like.. KNOW someone you have to know their story. His-story is all around, especially when you add in that he ( we ) has lived many lives in between Adam, and the man we are discussing, Jesus.

Paganism may have been an influence on the religion/doctrine of Christianity, but so were many other beliefs during that time period. It doesn't take away the story of Jesus. Dead Sea Scrolls, The Books of Enoch, The Keys of Solomon, and many other religions/beliefs that speak of his-story. The stories may have different names but it doesn't mean they were different spirits.

The stories outside the Bible that speak of him, may not call him Jesus, while some do. There are Gnostic writings that speak of Jesus. There was in fact an Essene community that spoke of Jesus. King of Righteousness is also another spirit of Jesus... Melchizedek.

reply to post by MamaJ


“A thought is an idea in transit.”
Pythagoras

Logos is the doctrine of thought and the fabric of reality. Thought becomes the "word" and the "word" becomes reality.

.The extracts presented here are particularly interesting, because creation is treated in an intellectual sense, whereas other creation stories are given in purely physical terms. Here the god Ptah conceives the elements of the universe with his mind (“heart”) and brings them into being by his commanding speech (“tongue”). Thus, at the beginning of Egyptian history, there was an approach to the Logos doctrine. This extant document dates from 700 B.C.E.19

Thus from the beginning of the Egypt’s rise to dominance, there is a doctrine of the fundamental nature of reality consisting of an emanation or energeia from a “mental speech act.” The divine thought-word gives rise to reality, emanating from the divine mind, through the Ennead. Again, the similarities with Plato’s demiurge and the macroprosopus, as well as a remote similarity to Aristotle’s first cause deity of pure thought are evident. The text reads:

There came into being as the heart and there came into being as the tongue (something) in the form of Atum. The mighty Great One is Ptah, who transmitted [life to all gods], as well as (to) their ka’s, through this heart, by which Horus became Ptah, and through this tongue, by which Thoth became Ptah.

Thus it happened that the heart and the tongue gained control over every other member of the body, by teaching that he is in every body and in every mouth of all gods, all men, [all] cattle, all creeping things, and everything that lives, by thinking and commanding everything he wishes.

jaysanalysis.com...

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I find your lack of faith disturbing!
I somehow doubt that folks from the middle ages had the wherewithal to produce a negative image on a cloth thinking that one day people will develop cameras and find this image, makes no sense. Also this image has 3 dimensional attributes something that was out of their realm of thinking!
It's Jesus Christ!

reply to post by windword

Logos is the doctrine of thought and the fabric of reality. Thought becomes the "word" and the "word" becomes reality.

Exactly!! That's the story... that's mans his-story. It's life.

Jesus in prime time. lol

reply to post by MamaJ


That's the doctrine of Logos. It has nothing to do with the life and/or teachings of Jesus the Nazarene. His message was not new or unique. It is the same message that the Buddha taught, that Lao Tzu taught and the ancient Egyptian mythology and the Eleusinian mysteries are echoed in Christian ritual and mythology.

I can't just superimpose the philosophies of Pythagoras, the logic of Platonic solids and the harmonics of the creation of the universe onto the "Jesus" figure, hanging in perpetuity on a wooden cross.

reply to post by windword


I find that odd, really. I wish you could see it all...

I guess you would have to look out of my eyes.... Pythagoras believed in reincarnation.

reply to post by MamaJ


I also believe in reincarnation. But, I see no need for the Christian idea of a man/god sin sacrifice, salvation, resurrection, the second coming, virgin birth or any of the other, so called, Christian miracles.

reply to post by windword


I don't accept the entire Christian doctrine either... I'm still perplexed by you not seeing the story as it matters "in" the whole scheme of things... literally.

Have you not entertained the thought of how Jesus could be real based on his teachings? He teaches reincarnation, however the Christian doctrine does not.

He taught the same as all the other "prophets" of history. In his-story ( Jesus) he in reality of this world matters. He was spoken about a lot before he even came to be Jesus.

Finding his incarnations is a revelation in and of itself.

reply to post by MamaJ


I see the "story" as a metaphor for all of us and our own "Hero's Journey". But, as far as the biblical character of Jesus Christ having existed as the human embodiment of "God" and of the living concept of "Divine Logos" ......... nope.

I find the biblical story and the Christian philosophy to be thin and cheap, contrived, controlling, intellectually dishonest, and somewhat immoral in the idea of forgiveness and salvation based on belief.

I do believe that we are spiritual beings, having a physical experience, that we are all a part of God, that all things return to source and in a spiritual hierarchy and multiple dimensions.

reply to post by windword


Exactly... the doctrine is a spin off, however the man is not.. well.. I guess he is too. lol

YA KNOW what I mean.

The Logos expresses in so many manifestations. It's the harmony of us all.

Jesus totally existed and I have his W2 to prove it

But seriously nice thread topic. I'm not religious, but have a lot of family that is. I never understood the need so many have for religion, I'm not religious and I live my life using a simple tool I was born with called common sense, which helps me with good vs evil, wrong vs right, etc... it's incredible how far it gets you...

And I've seen many write to the non believers in here that you must have a near death experience to understand God. Well, many devout believers have those and pray to God for healing/good health yet still die. Strange right?

IkNOwSTuff

tsingtao

IkNOwSTuff

PlanetXisHERE
I don't really care about the person, I care about Jesus' message, and it was and is beautiful and profound, one path to enlightenment/salvation. Idol worship serves no one. Whether or not he lived the message ascribed to him is one to me that makes sense and seems to be the best way to live your life, but this of course is just my own opinion.

Namaste

Worshiping Jesus, praying towards a cross IS idol worship

you think christians are muslims?

Honestly I dont see too much difference,

I find moderate Christians and Muslims nice people and then you get the ones who are so convinced of their own rightness and superiority it just turns me off it all completely.

Religion to me is like sexuality, keep it to yourself and we can all get along

funny how you accuse people of "rightness and superiority" when that is exactly what you and others here, are doing.
same with moderate atheists, they are fine with me and have no need to get up in anyones face, either.

christians do worship Jesus but not a random cross. it's what it means that's important.
a golden calf is an idol.

idolatry is not practiced and is forbidden.

the thing that pissed off a lot of people back then was that Jesus was a curve ball, thrown by God, lol!
He was not what the jews were expecting.

they wanted another solomon or david, or an alexander the great, not some poor nobody yump.
even though Jesus had the lineage, they couldn't believe it when He called them out on certain things.
they messed up once again, lol! got spanked for another 2000yrs. (tongue in cheek)

anyway, Jesus did walk the earth.

reply to post by windword


well, you are welcome to believe what you want.

it makes no difference in the big picture, does it?

reply to post by tsingtao

well, you are welcome to believe what you want.

Why, thank you!

it makes no difference in the big picture, does it?

Or, does it?????

Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

Why do you keep beating your wife?

windword
reply to post by tsingtao

 

well, you are welcome to believe what you want.

Why, thank you!

it makes no difference in the big picture, does it?

Or, does it?????

no it doesn't make a diff.

and we can believe what we want, too.


not many people will have their mind changed in this thread.

Trender

Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

Why do you keep beating your wife?

Because she shares her opinion too often... duhhhhh