Gun Nuts attack singer for no-gun restaurants

Y'know, when I was a kid my dad taught me the rules for firearms.

One of the most important ones was "You don't carry arms when you enter a stranger's camp." That along with hailing the strangers and making your presence known and waiting for an invite before you enter their camp. It's a courtesy to others, and too many such simple rules of courtesy like that have been forgotten or simply blown off by modern people.

Anyhow, I have no problem extrapolating that rule about not carrying into a stranger's camp to not carrying into a stranger's home, business, restaurant full of strangers/general public, etc. It's courteous, and it just plain makes sense.

*ESPECIALLY* when there is alcohol going around. (He also taught me the common sense to not be anywhere near a firearm when drinking/not be near anyone who is drinking and armed.)

Now, if I'm a CCP holder or I'm open-carrying and I don't like the house rules about not bringing arms in, and I can't live with it, then I go elsewhere. I don't force people to let me into their place while I'm armed--because that would be what we grown-ups call an "invasion." And I'm not about to invade someone else's place just to get a steak and baked potato (or whatever the heck they serve at Toby Keith's restaurant. I assume lots of dead cow and potatoes.)

We modern Americans need to mentally grow up. Some of the things we demand or fight over are such utter nonsense.

The guy has a right to a "gun free restaurant." Good for him. The guy has a right to put up a sign that says "No guns allowed." Good for him. But you folks who think by him doing this he has done something meaningful are delusional. You are not "safer" even a little bit. That sign may very well have the opposite effect you think it does. So dream on that you are safer.

reply to post by badgerprints


reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


Thank you for proving my point on how politicized this action is.

It isn't about whats deadly to another human, its about what a business owner can dictate with his business and whom he wishes to do business with.

Trying to twist this into a whole 'Gun kills people.... So... Bad' argument is moot.

If you want to fight the Second Amendment, find a different milk crate to stand on.

Here you have a clash of ironies, I have a right to bear arms, I also have the right if I own a business to regulate bringing a firearm onto my property, at least in Virginia you do so who's right and who is wrong?

The gun owner is right if he is openly carrying and no license, or if he has concealed carry and licensed and it is not posted.
The business owner is right if he simply posts "No Firearms" and makes it part of his operating policies, but he only has to post it in Virginia, not even make it part of his operating policies but it would be legally prudent to also do this as well as let employees know they cannot bring a firearm onto the premises.

Most legal gun owners at least that I know, follow the law.

If a gun owner in Virginia is making a stink over this law, which has existed for I don't know how long, you are exposing your own ignorance of the gun laws that existed probably before you were born, however, if someone out of state comes in, they need to respect the law, very easy.

There is no valid argument or case, this has been all brought about because of the celebrity.

Most gun owners, including myself, in the good old state of Virginia understand, why are people suddenly blowing this out of proportion and using it as their own poster child to say, their gun rights are being violated.

If you are not from Virginia you need to look at the laws, this has nothing to do with the federal government or anyone taking away your rights.

Chickensalad
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

Yes I have been through military training and yes I have been through 2 CCW courses and I still uphold my original statement.

Though I do see your point and understand it, I still disagree. It seems you may have been subject to some very unsavory history with weapons. I too have, but still hold mankind and my fellow gun owners to a better standard than is portrayed on ATS right now.

I would trust every CCW I know with my life and my families. Fortunately, I wont have to

And I can honestly say that the courses I was in were more than adequate. Maybe not the case in your area. But that is an issue right now nationally.

Who's courses are adequate enough to be recognized in other states?
I believe thats the topic of the debate your looking for.

While I am currently not a gun owner, the responsible owners I hold in high esteem. The problem in the USA is that, while we have many responsible gun owners, anyone can own a gun. While I have no problem with a responsible gun owner having a firearm, or many, how do we keep them out of the hands of those that are not responsible?

What has some folks "upset" with Toby Keith is the fact that he is a CHL carrier and has been a "gun" person his whole life. September 6,2011 he was interviewed by the Boston Herald and this is a quote from that interview:

TextKeith is legally licensed to carry and does so where permitted. “I’m all about good people, licensed and trained, carrying a concealed weapon,” Keith said. “The bad guys are always gonna be carrying guns. There are so many guns in the U.S., and so many bad people that do harm with ’em. If just 1 percent of the non-felons would go get their concealed-weapons license and carry a gun where they can, 1 percent puts you in a pretty good position of being somebody that could save a bunch of people’s lives. “If somebody asked me, ‘Why do you have one? What are you afraid of?’ I’d say, ‘I ain’t afraid of nothing. I carry so I don’t have to be.’ ”

The fact that he is a CHL carrier and has been quoted on his feelings about Americans carrying handguns for self defense is the problem. I am a CHL carrier here in Texas and I really don't care either way what Toby Keith does at his restaurant. I won't go there if I can't carry my handgun, it's that simple. I'm not a crazy redneck or whatever and I'm not mad at Toby Keith, he is an idiot as far as I'm concerned.

As many others have said before, his restaurant, his rules. If you don't like it, go eat at a gun-friendly restaurant. Kind of a weird decision for a country singer like Toby Keith to make (considering the country culture), but he has the right to do it. Don't get me wrong, I can understand why he doesn't allow guns in there (since alcohol is served there and those two things aren't the best combination), but it's just an odd decision considering his fanbase and where he comes from.

badgerprints

How many patrons have been killed from being in a restaurant nationwide? How many times has that actually happened?

This info can be used of for or against anyone's personal view points.
I just thought maybe a little history refresher might help.

www.azcentral.com...

Restaurant shootings:
July 18, 1984
James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty.
Oct. 16, 1991
A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.
April 28, 1996
Martin Bryant, 29, bursts into cafeteria in seaside resort of Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, shooting 20 people to death. Driving away, he kills 15 others. He was captured and imprisoned.
July 22, 2011 (Not a restaurant but almost the same thing)
Twelve people are killed and 59 wounded when a gunman wearing a bullet-proof vest and a mask enters an Aurora, Colo., movie theater, releases a canister of gas and then opens fire during opening night of the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises."

Work place related
Aug. 20, 1986
Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.
June 18, 1990
James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.
Nov. 5, 2009
Thirteen soldiers and civilians were killed and more than two dozen wounded when a gunman walked into the Soldier Readiness Processing Center at Fort Hood, Texas, and opened fire. Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan is charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

School related
Aug. 1, 1966
Charles Whitman opened fire from the clock tower at the University of Texas at Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31.
July 12, 1976
Edward Charles Allaway, a custodian in the library of California State University, Fullerton, fatally shot seven fellow employees and wounded two others.
Dec. 6, 1989
Marc Lepine, 25, bursts into Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique college, shooting at women he encounters, killing nine and then himself.
March 13, 1996
Thomas Hamilton, 43, kills 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and then kills himself
April 20, 1999
Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.
April 26, 2002
Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, who had been expelled from school in Erfurt, Germany, kills 13 teachers, two former classmates and policeman, before committing suicide.
April 16, 2007
Seung-Hui Cho, 23, kills 32 people and himself on Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va.
Nov. 7, 2007
After revealing plans for his attack in YouTube postings, 18-year-old Pekka-Eric Auvinen fires kills eight people at his high school in Tuusula, Finland.
Sept. 23, 2008
Matti Saari, 22, walks into a vocational college in Kauhajoki, Finland, and opens fire, killing 10 people and burning their bodies with firebombs before shooting himself fatally in the head.
April 30, 2009
Farda Gadyrov, 29, enters the prestigious Azerbaijan State Oil Academy in the capital, Baku, armed with an automatic pistol and clips. He kills 12 people before killing himself as police close in.
July 22, 2011
At least 80 people are killed at a summer camp on the Norwegian island of Utoya. A man arrested also is suspected in a blast earlier the same day in downtown Oslo that killed seven. Anders Behring Breivik, 33, has admitted to carrying out both attacks. He awaits sentencing on Aug. 24.

Misc Locations
Aug. 19, 1987
Michael Ryan, 27, kills 16 people in small market town of Hungerford, England, and then shoots himself dead after being cornered by police
March 10, 2009
Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people -- including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy -- across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.

I'm pretty sure that's only the famous cases and not including ones where the perpetrator was killed before they could do any harm etc.

Bassago
reply to post by CB328

 

What part of:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

do they not understand?

Of course if they do not like the Bill of Rights they could always move.

The constitution deals specifically with interactions between the government and the people. This persons business isn't part of the government, therefore he can set whatever rules he wants inside his place as long as they don't violate the law. Saying no guns allowed doesn't violate the law anymore than credit card companies saving card purchasing data violates your right to be free from having your documents searched.

The idea you're pushing is that the business is part of the state which is you know, communism.

AngryCymraeg

Bassago
reply to post by CB328

 

What part of:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

do they not understand?

Of course if they do not like the Bill of Rights they could always move.

I think that the days of a possible British invasion via Canada are long since over now, don't you?

So long as Americans don't invade Canada again!

Unenforceable = pointless.

The owner (it's not even Toby Keith, he just sold his name rights to the chain) can get back to me when they install metal detectors and do pat downs.

Otherwise any "no guns allowed" sign is pure fiction. But lets not make the hoplophobes cry with reality.

If you have to use it in a "gun free" place it's better to survive and face the consequences of having to put down a nut in a "gun free" place than to face the consequences of multiple deaths.

Arrest me and lock me away for possibly stopping the next Lanza or Cho if it makes you feel better.

CB328
Am I the only one who thinks that calling someone an America-hater for not wanting weapons of destruction in their business is crazy? Really the obnoxiousness and downright stupidity of gun worshippers has gotten so far out of hand I think it is irreparable. Mad Max here we come:

Toby Keith under fire for no guns policy at his restaurant chain

social.entertainment.msn.com...

Yes, you are the only one that thinks that. What makes the guy " gun nuts"? This is his right of free speech,
I take it you are an anti-gun nut, OP? Are you employed by the gov't by any chance?

reply to post by BugOut

TextKeith is legally licensed to carry and does so where permitted

Any bet he carries in his own restaurant. If that were true then I would see him as a bit hypocritical.

He's probably just trying to score customers with a no guns stance since it is a popular subject now.

reply to post by CB328



The issue here is "drunks" not guns. Toby has seen plenty of drunks in his day while playing bars and honky tonks. Probably some drunk gun play as well.

Think about how many folks get gunned down outside of bars and clubs every year. The two don't mix.

reply to post by CB328

My gosh, can you believe this????
I mean, how can a business deny service to someone based on their belief in the right to bear arms?

We should not allow business, that is open to the public to deny service to people. That is discrimination.

badgerprints
His restaurant, his rules.
If he doesn't want people drinking while having firearms in his place then he's probably smarter than the average bear.
It's not like people can't leave their guns in the locked car.
I don't let people who are drinking have guns in my home.

It is already illegal to drink while carrying a firearm so I'd say that issue is already covered. The CCW laws in most states stipulate you can go into a restaurant legally carrying even if the restaurant serves alcohol if you do not drink yourself.

I think his policy is silly and unnecessary, but it is his place and it is private property he should do as he pleases and people can choose to go to his establishment or not based on his policies. That's how freedom is supposed to work.


Now, I wonder what the response would be if one changed "gun owners" to "gays" or "African Americans." Would people still say, "his store, his rules?"

reply to post by NavyDoc


You answered your own question.

Just look at the bakery in Colorado.

toby Keith has restaurants??.....geez, must make denny's seem upper class. I always like how wealthy people that were lucky enough to strike it rich in one business, now think they can have the same success in others, that they have no knowledge about.

reply to post by jimmyx


Uhhh, his restaurants for the most part have been very successful.

Seems the private world knows how to run things.

jimmyx
toby Keith has restaurants??.....geez, must make denny's seem upper class. I always like how wealthy people that were lucky enough to strike it rich in one business, now think they can have the same success in others, that they have no knowledge about.

A crap or not restraunt. If you got money may as well invest it.

Beats haveing it sit around in some offshore acount doing nothing.

Least this way the moneys providng jobs and filling a usefull role.