So a man posts his hospital bill online of $11,119.53 (with insurance). How do you feel about this?

reply to post by Flatfish


And single payer doesn't remove the problem. It's just price controls. Price controls do not remove the other problems and only create issues that lead to rationing and erosion of service.

And we'll still be paying through the nose via our taxes and with a VAT thrown in for good measure. I dont' know about you, but I can't afford a 10 or 20% cost of living hike.

reply to post by CleanCare


I still don't understand why the U.S. (of all places) got themselves such a bad system when there were better working healthcare modells they simply could have adopted.

How the hell is your healthcare so expensive? And why are your additional costs so damn high?

ColCurious
reply to post by CleanCare

 

I still don't understand why the U.S. (of all places) got themselves such a bad system when there were better working healthcare modells they simply could have adopted.

How the hell is your healthcare so expensive? And why are your additional costs so damn high?

Thats what confuses me. There Healtcare system was brokern decades ago but they stuck there fingers in there ears and ignored it until it got worse and worse until the goverment has had to step in.

If they had sorted the problems out when they started then the goverment most likley would have had to get involved and scrw it up even more.

I find it interesting that people demand on comparing the US to Europe for healthcare approaches...it really is apples and oranges. Europe probably has a better preventative health and education model in place to keep their population from extreme levels of obesity, or extreme diabetes because they refuse to put the sugar down...or any other number of self inflicted medical problems.

Its these "self inflicted" health issues that put a significantly larger amount of strain on a US healthcare system than a European healthcare system.

The average american knows more about NASCAR then they do about Anatomy and Physiology...they know more about the VMA's and Lady Gaga than they do about exercise, the American society is NOT health inclined...Preventative health is really easy, proper diet and exercise...its amazingly simple, but when gym time is competing with "The Voice" and a cooking is competing with "The Dollar menu"...its a losing battle.

The lifestyles of the average american have consequences that I don't think the entirety of the US should shoulder...those consequences should rest on the shoulders who refuse to adopt healthier lifestyles.

I don't know the exact numbers but I would be willing to bet the chronic disease > than acute injury related illnesses in the US...and THIS is what is putting all the strain on the healthcare system driving costs through the roof.

I find it interesting that vehicle insurance takes your driving record and accident record into account when determining your premiums...but the health care industry seems to slack on that end...For someone who uses healthcare very rarely I find it absurd I pay the same premiums and monthly rates as someone whose Pharmacy is their home away from home.

We can point fingers at the healthcare systems and policies all day but the strain on healthcare is coming from an increasingly UNHEALTHY american population who just can't be bothered to take care of themselves anymore.

If the american population put as much energy into physical exercise as they do complaining about everyone and everything...it would turn this country around in a heart beat.

Healthcare is another entitlement it seems...regardless of how you treat yourself someone else is obligated to treat you better....

ColCurious
reply to post by CleanCare

 

How the hell is your healthcare so expensive? And why are your additional costs so damn high?

Greed!

The health insurance industry is huge, no morals or ethics are considered when it comes maximizing profit. Because the industry is so large they can lobby to have legislation that favors them passed. ACA is a gift to the insurance industry.

Health insurance could have worked if it was a non-profit Co-Op model.

A huge problem brewing is that people will revolt only AFTER they are broke. It's really just a matter of time before each and everyone of us must go to the hospital or doctor and get billed into unrecoverable debt. Which means it will be too late! The damage will be done. One wonders how America will recover, if at all, after this.

Stay healthy my friends!

It's a good thing this kid had insurance; otherwise, he would have gotten the medical care for free and those of us that have insurance would have higher premiums to cover his medical care.

Additionally, $11K isn't too bad of an expense for a $50K medical bill. He probably could have had the entire bill covered by insurance if he had gone with a better (more expensive) coverage. With lower tier insurance plans, one can expect to pay higher deductibles and co-pays....it's the way insurance has always been and probably the way it will always be.

reply to post by ColCurious


Because anything else is the socialisms. Nothing more need be said about the American mindset.

reply to post by Julie Washington

Just a note--hard to go hospital shopping when your appendix is about to burst. It's a critical situation that requires immediate surgery.

Actually, I'd say that those prices are pretty darn similar all the way around. I went to a neurologist under the Providence banner about 7 months ago, no insurance (preexisting condition --> lost insurance over a decade ago) so I paid for the appointment entirely on my own. Neuro ordered an xray, MRI, EEG and three blood tests--CBC w/differential, B12, and ANA. I had the three blood tests done thinking that the cost of those would probably be around $150 (based on prior experience) and, being disabled, applied for assistance. I was denied assistance based on my parents' income (I'm over 40). My bill for these three blood tests was around $650. That's over $200 per test. The appointment with the neuro was $310 so quite frankly, the hour long appointment with the medical specialist was less than half the price of three blood tests. Go figure. I'm deeply thankful that I opted to hold off on those other tests because, in all likelihood, if I had had those tests done, I would be having to consider filing for bankruptcy.

That's no insurance though and guess what, there really is no safety net. When you fall through the cracks, you fall hard. My issues were declining vision despite nothing being wrong with my eyes themselves (dimming, graying, scotomas, diplopia), syncope, temporary loss of function in both arms, and cerebral swelling. I'm just lucky that whatever went wrong is somewhat repairing on its own. I'm lucky because I survived.

What's insurance like? Eldest came down with a flu and rash and has health insurance. Made an appointment with a regular family practice doctor for him, who ordered three blood tests (CBC w/differential, liver function and hep test--doc thought he might have hep, he didn't). Providence again, private individual insurance payments of $150 a month ($1800 a year). My portion that I was required to pay for this? Ironically, around $650. The funniest part is that the comparison of the two cases seems to say that NOT having insurance provides a cost savings of over $1000 and he didn't even see a specialist. What the hell?

Back in the day when I was insured through Kaiser HMO, I had a c-section that cost me $490 and only because the doctor in charge decided I needed to stay one more day. I received MRIs, EEGs, CTs, bleeding times, and so many blood tests that phlebotomists get saddened when they see the inside of my elbow. A huge variety of tests--and the most that I paid was for any single one was $10. Even funnier is that Kaiser made the decision in the last year of having coverage to waive my co-pay on tests entirely, probably offsetting it to research costs since I'm medically weird. (More than one doctor said that what I had wrong with me was unprecedented.) So in that decade of no insurance, I went from easily being able to be monitored and treated to now, even should I have insurance, I would not be able to afford to even save my life.

To the OP--you should be scared. As somebody who has been in that position where I've had to chose between possible death and bankruptcy, I ended up choosing to do everything I can in the hopes of recovering on my own so I could simply continue feeding my children. Basically, I played Russian Roulette and seem to have won (knock on wood). I was lucky. Very, very lucky. It's a horrific position to be in. I cannot even begin to describe what this last year has been like for me. Imagine feeling so sick, dizzy and weak that all you can do is lay down but even that almost hurts because half your body feels like its moving through tar and the other half? It doesn't want to move at all. Vision blurred, dimmed and doubled and you're just lying there, thinking "this is it--I'm gone" because I made a choice to feed my children instead of getting that MRI, xray and EEG. Now that I'm stable again, I can't help but wonder what a messed up world we live in.

signalfire
reply to post by CleanCare

 

Next time your doctor tells you almost off-handedly that you need a CT or MRI scan, ask him/her if they know how much it costs. I guarantee you they won't have a clue.

I'm on medicare. I have trouble finding competent docs who accept medicare. And I have never found one who will order an MRI for me, despite severe neurological problems which have been getting worse. I may not have to pay for treatment, but they won't order treatment in the first place. Won't even take the logical first step in finding out what is wrong with me. Just waiting for me to die. Kind of like hospice care, but without the sympathy.

I never imagined that what I go through with the health-care system would become the norm for the entire working- and middle-classes of America. But here it comes, a big nightmare from which many of us will not awake. Read that last part again: many of us will not survive this system long enough to see something decent replace it. Hundreds of millions of my countrymen are about to feel the big screw that the government used to reserve for just sick useless eaters like myself.

My exit-strategy is twofold: 1) take college classes and try to find some work I can accomplish (which I hear is hard enough for the able-bodied these days, but I still hope I can pull it off) then save up enough to buy land far away from other humans; or 2) just enjoy myself a bit until I die (which I get the feeling the government would prefer happen sooner rather than later, and probably they will get their wish.) I'm working my fingers to the bone on option 1 (just finished a semester, 4.0 GPA, got published in the school's magazine, pretty proud of myself. exercise, eat right, drink plenty of water. feeling darn good about myself whether my plan works or not.) Option 2 I regard as the ultimate cop-out; I am driven to at least earn my keep, and preferably to contribute more than I take--if I don't, then how could I possibly feel good?

On the plus side, all the drugs they pump into me make me pretty sleepy, so I'll probably die in my sleep, and that is a load off.

The solution - don't pay.

Unless you are sitting on a large pile of money, it will cost them more to try and get money from you that you do not have, than they will ever likely be able to recover from you.

Send a letter and challenge the bill. It is illegal to jack up prices in a crisis situation, and that should apply to hospitals as well.

reply to post by Sly1one


Don't forget the illegals, who get 100% free medical coverage from medicaid, which is one of the biggest fed gov expenses here in the US.

Not only does the US public get to pay for the global corporate empire's exportation of our jobs, we get to pay for free medical insurance for immigrants who help lower our wages and increase the cost of housing.

Funny how the states who vote in the pol's who have created this mess are also the states with the fastest declining life expectancy.

Deregulation has been such a sweet deal.

We are lacking some crucial information. What kind of policy did he have and why? Young people are often called "The Invincibles" because they are fairly healthy. In fact, there is a serious movement for young people to NOT sign up for Obamacare at all under the idea that why should they pay for old people's sickness?

This person didn't even have insurance himself. His father paid for him--yet he's 20 years old! So, like many others his age, his attitude was that nothing was going to happen to him, so he didn't bother protecting himself. If it weren't for his Dad he wouldn't have had any insurance at all, and you know what? he wouldn't have to pay and probably wont have to pay this bill either because he's suddenly a "hardship case."

People in this situation, even under Obamacare, can purchase a "catastrophe plan" which is a whole lot less per month, but kicks in after a substantial co-pay. In other words, people can pay $250 a month for a $10,000 deductible, or $750 a month for full coverage. They save $6,000 per year, so in our case, had that happened, this person would have broken even after less than two years of premiums. Anything else is money ahead. I've done this for ten years now and have saved over $40,000 in premiums over full coverage.

Further, it is not valid to compare "costs" of Australia, Canada, or any other country with socialized medicine. Do you think those doctors, those hospitals, those pharmacies work for free in some sort of utopian paradise? They are paid through higher taxes, and if you lived in one of those countries you would pay much higher income taxes to pay for this health care. Just because it's hidden from view doesn't mean they don't pay them.

It's really a choice between having the Nanny State take care of you versus taking on that responsibility yourself. It mazes me how many people are willing to sacrifice their freedoms and just "let the government do it."

antonia
reply to post by ColCurious

 

Because anything else is the socialisms. Nothing more need be said about the American mindset.

If there's one thing you can always count on in America it's getting the turkeys to vote for Christmas.

reply to post by schuyler

It's really a choice between having the Nanny State take care of you versus taking on that responsibility yourself. It mazes me how many people are willing to sacrifice their freedoms and just "let the government do it."

I'd be totally cool with getting rid of the health insurance mandate IF AND ONLY IF they changed the laws so that anyone that is uninsured is required to pay in advance for any medical care they receive. That way, my premiums are not affected by freeloaders who seek treatment with the intent of never paying their debts. Until then, everyone should pay their fair share by having an insurance policy.

antonia
reply to post by ColCurious

 

Because anything else is the socialisms. Nothing more need be said about the American mindset.

Which makes no sense to people outside of the US.
So many people on food stamps, and unemployment benefits for up to almost 2 years (far longer than supposed "socialist" countries), yet national healthcare, for a healthy population is what is considered socialist....

Mind boggling.

reply to post by schuyler


Nice plug for the "nanny state" and usage of the idea of socialism. However, the concept of public health care stretches all the way back to the 5th Century BC--over a thousand years before socialism even became a word.

Hippocratic Oath
Declaration of Geneva

From the Modern AMA Hippocratic Oath:

My professional judgement will be exercised as independently as possible and not be influenced by political pressures nor by factors such as the social standing of the patient. I will not put personal profit or advancement above my duty to patients.

I will use my training and professional standing to improve the community in which I work. I will treat patients equitably and support a fair and humane distribution of health resources. I will try to influence positively authorities whose policies harm public health. I will oppose policies which breach internationally accepted standards of human rights.

98% of our doctors in the US took this oath in the late 90's. Most of them are likely still practicing today. How does one take an oath for such things and yet routinely see patients for whom they can do nothing because they are subject to insurance providers who work steadfastly to assure their profits.

CleanCare
Please give this a look and come back to me.
Source

Now, I'm not sure if I'm feeling sympathy or anger about the man's outrageous bill of $11,119.53.

What interests me more is that an Australian citizen who received the same treatment was not even given a bill.

Am I feeling angry? Am I feeling remorse for the man with the bill? Or am I simply jealous of other countries' health care? I'm really not sure.

Maybe I'm scared.

Scared that I may become the next victim of America's presitigous health care system.

edit on 31-12-2013 by CleanCare because: fact editing

edit on 31-12-2013 by CleanCare because: (no reason given)

Have you not heard of the charge sheet for every hospital and doctor?

Charge Sheet.

I Suggest you and everyone here learn about it.

No I will not give you any links.I don't like to spoonfeed.

reply to post by CleanCare
I think this about covers it...

reply to post by schuyler

It's really a choice between having the Nanny State take care of you versus taking on that responsibility yourself. It mazes me how many people are willing to sacrifice their freedoms and just "let the government do it."

The reason why some people are willing to let the government do it is because the for profit medical industry here in America is a failure. Americans pay more than anyone and we get less for it. And just how is socialized medicine giving up your freedoms? You mean the freedom of going bankrupt over a hospital bill?