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Roswell's Mogul Balloon Lies.

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posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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lies we might find some truth. Some of the sceptical views about the mogul balloon can seem very The truth about Roswell has been buried under a mountain of lies, if we can throw out some of the convincing until you take a closer look, this is to show you some of the reasons why I don't believe Roswell was project mogul.

Around the time of the Roswell crash there was quite a few UFO sightings, the sightings link has UFO reports from New Mexico and the surrounding areas in June and July 1947.
Sightings

It ends with a report from late August, this is how they lie to cover up what even their own people see in the sky while they're watching their own balloons.

Communications officer Lt. H. C. Markley of the Air Materiel Command's Project Mogul, was watching 2 balloons carrying a radar reflector to the SE in 10x binoculars when he saw a high speed, round, white object in horizontal flight travelling at "an unprecedented rate of speed" S to N several thousand feet over the tops of the Sacramento Mts.. He lost sight of it after a few seconds. Markley added that there had been other times when manning an optical tracker that he had seen round or flat-round objects that were "unexplainable." [Sparks wryly notes that the case was falsely explained by the Air Force as "false radar targets" picked up by radar tracking, when this was a visual sighting and no radar tracking was involved. However, the same sighting report notes that multiple stationary objects had indeed been picked up on radar at some other time at an altitude of 200 miles!]

Holloman Air Force Base.
Report

We all know the weather balloon story was a lie (don't we?) but the mogul story is also a lie. Using the mogul for spying is the only thing about it that was classified. The weather balloon was flown from Roswell to Fort Worth, on the same plane as Marcel and his boxes of the real debris. The real debris (not a mogul balloon) was then put on a plane and flown to Wright Field (Washington first) while the weather balloon was being identified by Newton the weather officer, and shown to the press in Ramey's office.

So first, the Air Force states that the materials "were not readily recognizable as anything special (only the purpose was special) and the recovered debris itself was unclassified." But the very next thing they discuss is the continuation of the supposedly cancelled flight to Wright Field for further identification of the very same unspecial, unclassified debris.

Cover up

At 21:20 in this video, you can hear Newton the weather officer say.

Now someone is trying to say that's a bunch of crap, that really they substituted something. I cannot say that positively 100% they didn't.

The Truth about Roswell Crash.
YouTube

First they switched the debris for a weather balloon, then they switched the weather balloon story to a mogul balloon. Then they switched the balloon rise rates and used bad maths "100/12=350" to make the mogul balloon that their own records say was never launched, appear to come down on the Foster ranch, to make the balloon fit in with their lies.
Launch record

In another shocking misuse of mathematics, Sparks also discovered that Moore actually used a completely different set of balloon rise rates than the ones he indicated he was using in his table. This also alters the trajectory, but to a less profound extent than the miscalculation of his table. Nonetheless, these numerous, grade-school type math errors (like 100/12 = 350 !! ) indicate Moore was up to something other than good, hard science when he did his trajectory calculation.

Trajectory Lies

This link has a map that shows where the mogul balloons crashed, the information for this came from the mogul records.

there is only one flight, #38, Nov. 4, 1947, that may have crashed anywhere near the Foster Ranch...about 50 miles North of Roswell.

The Foster Ranch is about 27 miles North West of Roswell.
Map

On July 6th, Brazel said that he found the debris about 3 days ago, this is backed up by the radio broadcast, so Brazel finding it in June was another lie. This is the radio broadcast that went out on July 8th, it's from the military press release not Brazel's story.

One of the discs had been found and inspected last week.

Last week (July) not last month (June}
Radio

Those who talked after July 7th lied, because they were afraid of what would happen if they told the truth. There have been a few suspicious deaths and disappearances of people who were involved in the Roswell case, some of the threats are listed here.
Threats

We can't believe what Brazel and his daughter Bessie said when they described the debris, Brazel had to lie, the military made sure of that. He told his daughter Bessie not to believe what they say in the newspapers, because they were going to use him to cover something up, his original recorded story was never broadcast.

Bessie said that she was talking about another time (in her affidavit) when she helped her father pick up balloons. It was her younger brother Vernon who had mysteriously disappeared and was never seen again, and her nephew who was shot dead along with another man while on a hunting trip, that might be why she didn't tell the truth.

Descriptions of the debris can be seen at this link, anyone who was shown the debris after Marcel got on the plane with what he had, would have been shown the weather balloon and radar kite, not what Brazel found. Those people didn't lie, they were tricked and that's part of what has caused so much confusion in this case.

The descriptions have been put into 8 different categories, the 9th link compares witness descriptions to Carbon Nanotubes. (Nanotubules.)
Debris




posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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This video shows us what they claim crashed on the Foster ranch, it's at 18:40, and they say.

We can now see for ourselves, the balsa and paper construction and the shiny foil like material, that mystified so many eye witnesses when General Ramey first displayed it in 1947.

Declassified Cover-Up of the Roswell UFO Crash.
YouTube

That never crashed to earth and it wasn't blown around in a storm, it couldn't have made the gouge or a large burn area on the ground. I don't believe that's ever been out of its box before, did you see any scotch tape holding it together, or any tape with flowers or symbols of any kind?

Did you see "FRAGILE" printed in large letters on the side of the wooden box it was stored in? Fragile doesn't sound anything like the debris that couldn't be creased, cut, dented or burned. I don't think they hit that with a sledge hammer, a toffee hammer is all they would have needed.

It's not what Ramey first displayed in 1947, judge for yourself in the video at 4:35, at 10:37, or in the photo link. At 17:00 they admitted that the weather balloon story was a cover up, that's less than two minutes before they try to make us believe that what they're showing us at 18:40, is the same thing Ramey showed in 1947.
Photo

The official stories were/are.
1. It was a flying saucer.
2. It was a weather balloon.
3. It was a mogul balloon.
4. The bodies were dummies.
Then they really started getting creative and added this into the mix.....

Case closed report.
They show us Viking from 1972, Voyager that was launched in 1977, Excelsior 3 from 1960. A Balloon launch from the mid 1950's, dummies that were about twice the size of the little bodies and were not even used before 1953, and they claim it was all "Time Compression."

They're saying that people mixed up 30 years worth of events and remembered them all as happening within a couple of days in 1947. They didn't show anything from 1947, nothing from before 1953.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Why did they show us a balloon launch from the mid 1950's? Why not show us a balloon launch from 1947? Why would they replace one balloon with another balloon, then show us another one from years later in their video?

If everyone from Corona and Roswell in 1947 suffered from a 30 year "Time Compression", then I have to ask, what were they testing? And why is it that the firsthand witnesses reported seeing small bodies under tarpaulins, not large bodies (dummies) in body bags?

This is not case closed, it wasn't a balloon they had stored in the big hanger. Haut didn't describe a balloon, see numbers 12 and 13 in his 2002 affidavit.

It was approx 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape...
(13}...a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin.

Haut

Robert Porter, he did take a balloon to Fort Worth although he didn't know what it was at the time. It was wrapped up in brown paper which you can see clearly on the floor, in the photo of Ramey and Dubose with the weather balloon. (Photo link posted above.)

One of the pieces was triangle shaped, about 2 1/2 feet across the bottom. The rest were in small packages, about the size of a shoe box. The brown paper was held with tape.

They were still picking the stuff up at the debris field for another day after that, and then there's what was found just north of Roswell.
Porter

They flew "a balloon" from Roswell to Fort Worth, then onto Washington and then Wright Field? Why fly a balloon from Roswell to Fort Worth for a press conference? Ramey was in Roswell at the meeting that morning where they passed around the debris, they could have held the press conference there. I suspect they didn't want the press to see what they had in Roswell.


They needn't have bothered wrapping up the weather balloon and flying it to Fort Worth because it was also in Roswell. That's where it came from, that's where they launched the weather balloons, Dubose said they didn't launch them at Fort Worth. Dubose was left out of the official case closed report, his story didn't fit in with their balloon story.
Dubose


A few facts about project mogul from Kevin Randle.

Brazel... said that he had found other weather balloons but this wasn't like those. Mogul, of course, was made up of weather balloons. He should have recognized it for what it was.

Mogul

This quote is from one of David Rudiak's comments at the Kevin Randle, Mogul link.

...argument that the entire ET case is based on 30 to 50 year old memories... the case for Mogul is based almost entirely on the 50 year old memory of one man (Moore), caught lying red-handed while making his case.

Look out for those double standards, (and bad maths) whichever side of the fence you're on.

The Roswell case involves a crash site just north of Roswell, with an egg shaped pod, bodies and a live alien.

A possible touchdown site about 5 miles north of Roswell with crystallised sand, some debris and a strange black box.

The debris field in Corona with the V shaped gouge and a 500 foot long scar in the ground, and a body site to the north of there.

The crash site on the Plains of San Agustin with bodies might also be connected to the Roswell crash, and there are other possible connections to this case. Roswell AAF wouldn't have been involved in those cases, and nobody got the full story from Barney Barnett before it was too late.

With most, if not all of the witnesses gone now and those who were there at the time not knowing what was happening at the other sites, it's almost impossible to work out who was talking about what because they all just say it was the Roswell crash.

I don't believe they would have made this much fuss over a balloon, they wouldn't have needed so many people to identify it or do testing on it. They wouldn't have needed armed guards to guard it or escort it anywhere, and they wouldn't have altered the records and made most of them disappear.

Tuesday afternoon July 8th was when Ramey announced it was just a weather balloon, this was the first time anyone spoke about a balloon, that was 4 or 5 days after Brazel found it. Then they held Brazel for 4 or 5 days, they wouldn't have done that over a balloon. There's so many things they wouldn't have done if it was just a balloon.

Jesse Marcel, intelligence officer, he wouldn't have been fooled by a balloon, sticks and tin foil.

It was not anything from this earth, that I'm quite sure of.

Jesse Marcel

Roswell was not a balloon.
edit on 31-12-2013 by LEL01 because: Happy New Year to you.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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For those of you who care, this is my last post. I don't know if I will come back in the future, I can't see the point in posting in an aliens and UFO forum where most people don't even believe aliens exist, and I haven't got the energy to do battle with them every time I post a comment.

I have a lot more to say about Roswell and I have a lot of questions of my own. It is worthy of discussion, when you look at the information already out there, you can see through most of the lies and deception. Everything the USAF have said and done should tell you that this was something out of the ordinary, if not aliens then what else would have made Jesse Marcel keep quiet about a lot of what he knew, for the sake of his country after all those years?

For those of you who are happy to see me go and don't think that Roswell is worthy of discussion, why do you make Roswell threads, post in Roswell threads, and even praise other Roswell threads? I don't believe your problem is with Roswell, how could it be? All you had to do was just not click on Roswell threads, it really is that easy. I got the message, you win, I'm leaving because of you. You can go have your victory party now.

edit on 31-12-2013 by LEL01 because: Goodbye.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:26 AM
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S&F
Very well laid out.
I to feel there is more then meets the eye or ear....



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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Lighten up Bro...

There was a great thread here that I can't find about the week before Roswell.

That thread ask people to check your local paper the week before the event.

It was amazing. There were sightings all over the Country.

If most of us did not believe in ET's...What the heck do you think we are on ATS for?

Dump the goodbye stuff. It's against the T&C anyway (no goodbye threads).

Grow a spine and defend your thread....I liked it.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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So long. Come back soon. Dont worry the truth aint "nothing"!
Time will reveal the truth whatever that maybe. And there maybe surprises in store for many!
Dont let the B..t..ds get you down.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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I'm with you OP, there's no way that NOTHING out of the ordinary happened in Roswell. I liked your thread, and hope to see you write more in the future! Stars and Flags for a well written, well researched piece.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Oh wow what is this 'Roswell' you talk of? And what is this 'Roswell' you speak of?



LEL01
lies we might find some truth. Some of the sceptical views about the mogul balloon can seem very The truth about Roswell has been buried under a mountain of lies, if we can throw out some of the convincing until you take a closer look, this is to show you some of the reasons why I don't believe Roswell was project mogul.

Around the time of the Roswell crash there was quite a few UFO sightings, the sightings link has UFO reports from New Mexico and the surrounding areas in June and July 1947.
Sightings

It ends with a report from late August, this is how they lie to cover up what even their own people see in the sky while they're watching their own balloons.

Communications officer Lt. H. C. Markley of the Air Materiel Command's Project Mogul, was watching 2 balloons carrying a radar reflector to the SE in 10x binoculars when he saw a high speed, round, white object in horizontal flight travelling at "an unprecedented rate of speed" S to N several thousand feet over the tops of the Sacramento Mts.. He lost sight of it after a few seconds. Markley added that there had been other times when manning an optical tracker that he had seen round or flat-round objects that were "unexplainable." [Sparks wryly notes that the case was falsely explained by the Air Force as "false radar targets" picked up by radar tracking, when this was a visual sighting and no radar tracking was involved. However, the same sighting report notes that multiple stationary objects had indeed been picked up on radar at some other time at an altitude of 200 miles!]

Holloman Air Force Base.
Report

We all know the weather balloon story was a lie (don't we?) but the mogul story is also a lie. Using the mogul for spying is the only thing about it that was classified. The weather balloon was flown from Roswell to Fort Worth, on the same plane as Marcel and his boxes of the real debris. The real debris (not a mogul balloon) was then put on a plane and flown to Wright Field (Washington first) while the weather balloon was being identified by Newton the weather officer, and shown to the press in Ramey's office.

So first, the Air Force states that the materials "were not readily recognizable as anything special (only the purpose was special) and the recovered debris itself was unclassified." But the very next thing they discuss is the continuation of the supposedly cancelled flight to Wright Field for further identification of the very same unspecial, unclassified debris.

Cover up

At 21:20 in this video, you can hear Newton the weather officer say.

Now someone is trying to say that's a bunch of crap, that really they substituted something. I cannot say that positively 100% they didn't.

The Truth about Roswell Crash.
YouTube

First they switched the debris for a weather balloon, then they switched the weather balloon story to a mogul balloon. Then they switched the balloon rise rates and used bad maths "100/12=350" to make the mogul balloon that their own records say was never launched, appear to come down on the Foster ranch, to make the balloon fit in with their lies.
Launch record

In another shocking misuse of mathematics, Sparks also discovered that Moore actually used a completely different set of balloon rise rates than the ones he indicated he was using in his table. This also alters the trajectory, but to a less profound extent than the miscalculation of his table. Nonetheless, these numerous, grade-school type math errors (like 100/12 = 350 !! ) indicate Moore was up to something other than good, hard science when he did his trajectory calculation.

Trajectory Lies

This link has a map that shows where the mogul balloons crashed, the information for this came from the mogul records.

there is only one flight, #38, Nov. 4, 1947, that may have crashed anywhere near the Foster Ranch...about 50 miles North of Roswell.

The Foster Ranch is about 27 miles North West of Roswell.
Map

On July 6th, Brazel said that he found the debris about 3 days ago, this is backed up by the radio broadcast, so Brazel finding it in June was another lie. This is the radio broadcast that went out on July 8th, it's from the military press release not Brazel's story.

One of the discs had been found and inspected last week.

Last week (July) not last month (June}
Radio

Those who talked after July 7th lied, because they were afraid of what would happen if they told the truth. There have been a few suspicious deaths and disappearances of people who were involved in the Roswell case, some of the threats are listed here.
Threats

We can't believe what Brazel and his daughter Bessie said when they described the debris, Brazel had to lie, the military made sure of that. He told his daughter Bessie not to believe what they say in the newspapers, because they were going to use him to cover something up, his original recorded story was never broadcast.

Bessie said that she was talking about another time (in her affidavit) when she helped her father pick up balloons. It was her younger brother Vernon who had mysteriously disappeared and was never seen again, and her nephew who was shot dead along with another man while on a hunting trip, that might be why she didn't tell the truth.

Descriptions of the debris can be seen at this link, anyone who was shown the debris after Marcel got on the plane with what he had, would have been shown the weather balloon and radar kite, not what Brazel found. Those people didn't lie, they were tricked and that's part of what has caused so much confusion in this case.

The descriptions have been put into 8 different categories, the 9th link compares witness descriptions to Carbon Nanotubes. (Nanotubules.)
Debris




posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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The Roswell Incident is THE UFO incident everyone has heard about and we still talk about to this day. I have studied it for a number of years and in my view there is indisputable evidence to suggest that an extraterrestrial event did occur on or before July 7th 1947. The governments various explanations are clearly lies. There are many, many first hand and second hand witnesses to this historic event. I believe that wreckage of the crashed interstellar craft still remains out there somewhere and one day that final piece of the jigsaw will fit into place.
edit on 1-1-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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Not sure that anyone knows but LEL01 has already made it known on another thread about her personal loss and circumstances. This is the reason why she has no longer the time to maintain a thread and debate with people at present. Unfortunately life gets in the way sometimes.


Her contributions, especially about Roswell were always thoughtful and seemed to stimulate a good debate. I don't agree with her on some points but do think that something out of the ordinary happened back in 1947 in the desert sands of New Mexico. I do hope she returns to ATS when she feels the time is right.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 01:42 AM
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On a personal note: the whole Roswell-case to me seems so clouded that I wonder if there will be anything that will convince me of any evidence whatever happened there.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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Awesome thread! Have not looked deeply enough into the incident.

Someone said something about sightings before the incident so I did some searching.

Prior sightings



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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LivingUnderGlass
On a personal note: the whole Roswell-case to me seems so clouded that I wonder if there will be anything that will convince me of any evidence whatever happened there.


Roswell is about the best researched UFO case in the entire world. If you can not find enough information on it to form an opinion then it isn't the research that is holding you back. Here is a book I would consider if your looking for some clarity on the subject, Crash at Corona: The Definitive Story of The Roswell Incident






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