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Pravda - US Turning Communistic - Repeating Soviet Union Mistakes - Bye Bye Miss American Pie

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posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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well the fact we are heading deeper into capitalism without restraint is a clear indication of us heading straight into socialism if you read what marx had to say about it:
“This is the abolition of the capitalist mode of production within the capitalist mode of production itself, and hence a self-dissolving contradiction, which prima facie represents a mere phase of transition to a new form of production. It manifests itself as such a contradiction in its effects. It establishes a monopoly in certain spheres, and thereby requires state interference. It reproduces a new financial aristocracy, a new variety of parasites in the shape of promoters, speculators and simply nominal directors; a whole system of swindling and cheating by means of corporation promotion, stock insurance, and stock speculation. It is private production without the control of private property.”

yeah rentier capitalism as it's called describes modern america quite well does it not? and a lot of people seem to not realize that socialists took over russia for about a year before 1918 until the bolsheviks under lenin counter revolted, deposed the socialists and installed themselves into power while retaining the name of socialism.
i mean when stalin came to power how do you think he grew russian industry so fast? i'll tell you what, he created joint venture contracts with private corporations like ford and such, not to mention the fact that private enterprises did indeed exist in the soviet union so how socialist were the soviets really?

the person who wrote that article is right about one thing, we are indeed making mistakes very similar to the ones the soviet union did and we most definitely are heading towards socialism because for socialism to take root you first need capitalism and democracy to create the proper structures and environment.
though the soviets never had these structures or any such environment under capitalism or democracy, the fact remains that socialism is an in-between point towards communism, but not only is it an in-between point towards communism it's also an in-between point towards national socialism and from what history has shown i have no doubt that both the soviet union and nazi germany were both under national socialism.

we are not heading towards communism at all, we are heading towards national socialism and it's not just america but the whole industrialized world too, though china has already made the transition and nobody even noticed it yet or at least they don't wish to recognize this fact.




posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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SubTruth

Kali74
reply to post by SubTruth
 


What planet do you live on where this is reality?
Corporations are in control of everything including the government.








Ya what's your point. I agree with your statement. You do understand the government is in bed with private companies.
edit on 31-12-2013 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)


Yes, I understand it... you apparently don't. You stated that government has control over everything, they do not by virtue of corporations having control of our government.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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UxoriousMagnus

AngryCymraeg

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


The Stock Market is an Illusion . You obviously don't see that . My Condolences......

www.shtfplan.com...
edit on 31-12-2013 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)


Thank you for the link. It gave me a great laugh. In fact the entire website gave me a great laugh. And I understand the stock market just fine thanks. I read a lot of books.


Angry"C",

I don't understand people like you. You come into a thread like this one and call everyone idiots and make fun of things they say, then you make fun of links they post, then you make fun of references they make. You have yet to make one interesting statement backed by proof, references or material.

"I fought real communists in college".....WTF does that even mean and how does that statement make you have a better understanding of communism than any of us? That statement holds about as much weight as me saying "I fought little green men in your moms bedroom last night."

Can you actually contribute to the thread for gods sake?


I have contributed. I've pointed out that a lot of people on this thread have no idea what a communist is. And I did fight real communists in college. I was on the Student Union in Wales in 1988 and you should have seen some of the idiots who would stand up to speak and praise the Soviet Union. So I have fought communists, both in speech and in one case in a bar after he made some derogatory comments.
Oh and by the way I actually went to Russia when it was still the Soviet Union. So I've seen what communism is like in practice and I don't recommend it. At all.
It is very easy to say that someone is a communist. It has to be backed up by proof. I have lost count of the number of times that someone on ATS has claimed that Obama is a communist based on absolutely no proof. It's a lazy claim made by people who have been badly educated. Such people tend to think that all Democrats are communists. Which is a moronic statement.
Happy now?



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by elouina
 

I, on the other hand, find Russians telling us to "watch out" a positive thing.


Over the last 12 years, I have met quite a few Russians here is Southern California. Most of them cabbies or airport shuttle drivers.

ALL of them stated the same things to me, we are turning into what horrors their nation finally overturned. And they were ALL SHOCKED at how we could be foolishly turning into the same thing.

Sad when people from the former USSR can see what Americans can not fathom. Yet we lived here our whole lives, KNOW something is GROSSLY different than America 20m years ago. Yet everyone just worries "about MY family", providing for "my family".. this is the Self IMPOSED BLINDFOLD..

Americans as a whole are still trying to chase a DREAM, a pipe dream that no longer exists..



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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The uneducated right wingers love to throw around the "socialist" "communist" card; trying to win converts
of other morons to their cause. And from the the responses and the way ATS is leaning to the Christian Right; It's working.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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olaru12
The uneducated right wingers love to throw around the "socialist" "communist" card; trying to win converts
of other morons to their cause. And from the the responses and the way ATS is leaning to the Christian Right; It's working.


It's not the "right wingers" that are the problem.

Here's a list of over 1000 Left Wing outfits all well funded.

All Lumped Together


and even some internationals List of left-wing internationals


Lots of influence on American scenes.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 06:56 PM
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Here's some points about COMMUNIST PARTY USA (CPUSA)



* Controlled by the Soviet Union for most of its history.

* Engaged in espionage, infiltrated unions, and used front groups.

* Acted as a fifth column in American government and society.


.... on November 3, 2010, the CPUSA praised the Obama administration for having "accomplished many things." Moreover, the Party:

complained that prior to the previous day's elections, a "corporate-Republican alliance depended on lies, fear, and hatred to spread its message";

praised labor unions for having worked to raise "class consciousness"; and
asserted that a key CPUSA priority for the immediate future would be "to deepen and expand class-consciousness."

Late in 2010, CPUSA member C.J. Atkins called for his comrades to drop their "communist" label, so that they could work more effectively inside the Democratic Party.


Soon thereafter, Joe Sims, co-editor of the CPUSA publication Peoples World, acknowledged not only that collaboration with the the Democrats "will be an area of engagement for those wanting to make a difference," but also that communists might someday be able to "capture" the Democratic Party entirely. Sims warned, however, against dissolving the CPUSA entirely into the Democratic Party. Rather, he advised his organization to remain a separate entity, working both inside and outside the Democratic Party as circumstances required.

CPUSA (discoverthenetworks.org)



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


The information is a little bit biased.

Religion
You can have both religion and spirituality in Communism.

Economic Planning
Planning in Communism should be decided by the comunity on as decentralized as possible.

Way of change
Since it is decided on grass root the needs and wants of the people get reflected in what is produced.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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It's funny we are. America is becoming the way cold war soviet union was, yes? (Soviet voice inflection used in that sentence). Russia is still becoming more free and more capitalistic like the US is. PussyRiot wouldn't have been freed 20 years ago.. maybe not even 10 years ago. They'd be dead, yes? We're moving in 2 opposite directions. it's interesting. Will we intersect or will either they or us stop before we cross that imaginary line that separates our ideologies?



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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As to the value of discoverthenetworks.org as a factual or unbiased source ...

The website is maintained by the David Horowitz Freedom Center. David Horowitz is well-known as a right-wing activist, and has been the focal point for controversy for various work alleging that basically all mainstream institutions of higher education in America have been infiltrated by Marxist elements. (Source)

From the DTN site (link listed above), here's part of the definition of what is intended by their use of the word "left"

"... [T]he contemporary left has formed a broad alliance, or united front, composed of radicals representing a host of demographic groups that are allegedly victimized by American capitalism and its related injustices. Each constituent of this alliance -- minorities, homosexuals, women, immigrants, the poor -- contributes its voice to a chorus that aims to discredit the United States specifically -- and Western culture generally -- as abusers of the vulnerable. Nor is the left’s list of victim groups limited only to human beings; in the worldview of leftwing environmentalists and animal rights activists, even certain species of shrubs, trees, insects, and rodents qualify as victims of capitalism's ravages."

And here are a few of the listed "leftist" organizations from the thousand or so listed at the site ...

AARP (Yes, the American Association of Retired Persons)
AFL-CIO
American Broadcasting Company (ABC)
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
The European Union
Georgetown University
Harvard University
The Nobel Peace Prize
The University of Georgia (I have a bit of personal knowledge here ... uh, no.)
Yale University
Wikipedia

Your mileage may vary.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


Ya... it's just a brief overview comparison. I posted it to deny ignorance but so far I don't think the target audience bothered. They seem quite lazy even to read just that little. They'd rather be told their opinions of various ideologies rather than do any learning themselves. What can ya do, but keep trying? Thanks for trying to further the discussion.

So easy to say that capitalism today is bastardized, but not take the tiniest bit of intellectual energy to wonder if anything else had been bastardized. China and USSR were Communist, things didn't go well therefore Communism is bad, no thinking beyond that... Obama is bad therefore he must be a communist... Rush, FOX etc... have absolutely murdered critical thinking in Conservatives.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Then SELL Every Stock you have now Before Nov. 2014 . Good Luck .



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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Been off enjoying the holiday so imagine my surprise that this thread is still going strong. I have given my opinion and I respect all other opinions. I can not covert Obama's followers with my spoken words. Just like I couldn't convert a mooney in their hey day. Obama's followers are blinded by the false glory they bestow upon their, "savior". And like I once posted at another conspiracy forum, people even prayed to that fool. I found this video with less than 20 views and propelled it to stardom. This is exactly what I see when I see every Obama fanatic here in ATS. Every horrible leader in history has their blind followers. And it looks like history is repeating itself. Pity since the US was a great country at one time.

ATS meet Obama's followers:

Marxist Organizers Pray To Barack Obama
edit on 2-1-2014 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:12 AM
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Zanti Misfit
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Then SELL Every Stock you have now Before Nov. 2014 . Good Luck .


Interesting. So you're predicting a heavy Republican defeat then?



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:13 AM
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elouina
Been off enjoying the holiday so imagine my surprise that this thread is still going strong. I have given my opinion and I respect all other opinions. I can not covert Obama's followers with my spoken words. Just like I couldn't convert a mooney in their hey day. Obama's followers are blinded by the false glory they bestow upon their, "savior". And like I once posted at another conspiracy forum, people even prayed to that fool. I found this video with less than 20 views and propelled it to stardom. This is exactly what I see when I see every Obama fanatic here in ATS. Every horrible leader in history has their blind followers. And it looks like history is repeating itself. Pity since the US was a great country at one time.

ATS meet Obama's followers:

Marxist Organizers Pray To Barack Obama
edit on 2-1-2014 by elouina because: (no reason given)


Another site that throws words like 'Marxist' about a bit too freely then? Typical.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


The defense of this group and their outrageous actions speaks multitudes. I rest my case.



“We claim the value of a sacred community over isolating individualism."




,” Jacobsen acknowledges that he has “deep prejudices ... against wealthy people.” He contends that Christians who view America as a just society are plagued by “false consciousness”


GAMALIEL FOUNDATION (GF)

Definition of "False Conciousness" - a Marxist Constuct

PS. Do you know who else belonged to this group? Wanna take one guess?

edit on 2-1-2014 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 02:27 AM
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More false dilemma. There really are more than two choices in most situations; it is not merely a question of whether one is a supporter or a detractor of Obama, it SHOULD be a question of WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

Statements that grossly reduce every fact to a unilateral either/or are statements of extremism with an agenda on either fabricated "side" of the false dichotomy. Proclamations that a given claim is self-evident, with no additional arguments, facts, or data presented, is a reflection of a true believer's agenda.

There probably are people who pray to Obama. There are people who pray to small inanimate objects.

There are people who pray to all kinds of ridiculous things.

Even the existence of people who pray to Obama (I'm not sure what the folks are doing in the video, it's surreal at best) does not indicate that any person that doesn't condemn his every action therefore worships him or even supports him. In my own opinion, the man's performance in his job is horrible in some ways, mediocre in others, and in others ... "eh, he's a politician."

The group cited in the video, the Gamaliel Foundation, is apparently a Christian faith-based organization: (Source). No claims of Marxism are apparent in a cursory review of their website. Review it for yourself; YMMV.

IF Obama is not a god (and he certainly ISN'T), then it follows that he's not a devil, either.
edit on 2Thu, 02 Jan 2014 02:44:25 -060014p022014166 by Gryphon66 because: corrections made to verb tense and agreement. Dang it, I'm slippin'.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


A Market Correction is Overdue . A Big One.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 


The source or person giving the news is a moot point when the truth still stands. Obama has been a failure, so has every president since J.F.K. (in my opinion).

I like your avatar though.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:49 AM
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Indeed, facts are facts. Truth though, sadly, is generally a matter for philosophy alone these days.

The source of a fact does not determine its veracity. Given.

Facts about opinions do not universally justify opinions about facts. Given.

When a site is biased toward one agenda or another, pointing out that bias is not, necessarily, a negation, but, lopsided biases can certainly influence how facts are presented at best ...

... and at worst, they reduce themselves to mere tabloidism. Your mileage may vary.

edit on 3Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:51:14 -060014p032014166 by Gryphon66 because: nothing gold can stay.

edit on 3Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:52:21 -060014p032014166 by Gryphon66 because: DANG IT!




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