Jonestown: How do you get 900 people to kill themselves?

reply to post by Grifter42


It was done by Mysterious means.........




" Jonestown had its grey eminence in Dr. Lawrence Laird Layton of the University of California at Berkeley, formerly a chemist for the Manhattan Project and head of the Army’s chemical warfare research division in the early 1950s. (Larry Layton, his son, led the death squad that murdered Congressman Leo Ryan, who’d arrived at Guyana to investigate the cult.) Michael Meiers, author of Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?, scavenged for information on the People’s Temple for six years, concluding:

“The Jonestown experiment was conceived by Dr. Layton, staffed by Dr. Layton and financed by Dr. Layton. It was as much his project as it was Jim Jones”

“Though it was essential for him to remain in the background for security reasons, Dr. Layton maintained contact with and even control of the experiment through his wife and children.” The African-American cult had at its core a Caucasian inner-council, composed of Dr. Layton’s family and in-laws.

The press was blind to obvious CIA connections, but survivors of the carnage in Guyana followed the leads and maintained that Jim Jones was “an employee, servant, agent or operative of the Central Intelligence Agency” from 1963 – the year the Agency turned to cult cut-outs to conceal MKULTRA mind control activities – until 1978. In October 1981 the survivors of Jonestown filed a $63 million lawsuit against Secretary of State Cyrus Vance and Stansfield Turner, former director of the CIA, currently a teacher at the University of Maryland and a director of the Monsanto Corporation. The suit, filed in U.S. district court in San Francisco, accused Turner of conspiring with Agency operatives to “enhance the economic and political powers of James Warren Jones,” and of conducting “mind control and drug experimentation” on the Temple flock.

The suit was dismissed four months later for “failure to prosecute timely.” All requests for an appeal were denied. "


wariscrime.com...

He was a psychopath and sociopath. From what I heard of him talk during that mass murder, He sounded like a drunk abusive father. Not charismatic or intelligent. I think the people who drank willingly were blinded by their faith. Wanting to go to heaven, so bad to meet lost loved ones or just meet their lord and savior.

The resisters, had a moment of clarity, only short lived. Do to a Smoking gun.

It's amazing just how many "uses" for inducing mass suicide have been pointed out here.
It can:
smokescreen a targeted murder
smokescreen a mass casualty event like a battle
it eliminates witnesses (to mind control, to crimes perpetrated through the organization, the leader's escape, whatever)
it promotes the mainstream over alternative groups


So how do you do it?
What I notice about Heaven's Gate, the Manson Family, The Branch Davidians, almost any cult you care to mention, is that sex always seems to play a role. Sometimes it starts as an incentive but it almost always ends up being a surrender of control over one of the most personal areas of life- you end up pressured to have sex with someone you dont want to, or to refrain from sex, or to let someone else get in the middle of your monogamous relationship.

I think the mechanics of the suicide are shown off pretty well by this common link. It's something that few people are 100% secure about, it's a deeply personal part of who somebody is, and it's difficult for many people to discuss or even think about clearly and objectively. The cult gets at this very personal and uncomfortable subject that has so much to do with the follower's own self-image, and makes demands until they have undermined that person's sense of their own life, and the person has difficulty even applying critical thinking to the situation they find themselves in. Suicide would probably seem pretty reasonable to a person who had ruined his marriage or castrated himself in the midst of a hysteria, expecting something better in return, who then sobers up and is told that his reward will not come in this lifetime.
You can do the same dance of playing on insecurity, whipping someone into a frenzy, gradually taking them too far, then bursting their bubble and leaving them with only suicide as an out in lots of subjects of course, not just sex. You can do the same thing with their social life, their finances, an addiction- it's all basically the same.

Step 1. Mine society- just go into the mall with a wheelbarrow and see what you get: Offer things that some people are desperate for- smiles, conversation, agreement with their BS, a place to be, drugs, sex, etc.

Step 2. Sift out the stuff you can't use- shake em hard and see who jumps out: While you're making all these desperate friends, intentionally alienate the critical and non-desperate. Overstep personal boundaries, be a little annoying, don't make too much sense. You want the unreceptive people to leave in disgust as quickly as possible and not be comfortable enough to try and argue or reason with you.

Step 3. You smelt the ore- burn up anything that won't take your abuse forever: Increase the overstepping of personal boundaries while also increasing repetition of the message. Increase receptiveness to the message with altered states of mind, whether induced by stress, sex, drugs, music, religious ritual, or some combination thereof. Interfere with their family, their home, their job, their friendships, their sex life- get so personal that they absolutely must either fully submit to your authority or leave feeling raped and never wanting to talk about any of it again.

Step 4. You use what you've produced as you see fit until it breaks, then you throw it away. If suicide is the whole point, because it's a coverup, or a propaganda stunt, etc, then you use your authority screw up people's lives and convince them that suicide is the only escape, then you enforce it on them so they can't back out at the last minute. If suicide is not the point and you're just taking all you can get from them, you'll still probably want it as a failsafe, in case you are ever on the brink of being caught and held to account.

Anybody theoretically could pull it off, although you'd probably just end up being king of a penniless drum circle. But if you had the resources of the CIA or any other major concern that might have larger motives, you could start your own colony in south america or whatever you wanted- the only limit is your budget and the amount of attention you are willing to draw.

Easy, convince yourself your are God or are a God, then find people that are looking for one, then with your clever techniques provide them with shelter, free food and promise of heaven there you have it, 900 people some on their own, some forced with syringes and other horrible methods, who knows where the next cult will be, but as was proven, his was not the last and certainly as long as there are weak or misguided minds and equally weak and misguided leaders or self proclaimed ones, Gods, the Jim Jones template can be repeated over and over.
There is no mystery about this, the majority of people are followers.

reply to post by Grifter42


People are stupid. They tend to do as they are told. This is true individually and it is absolutely true in groups. You can get a whole civilization to kill itself with the right mix of patriotism, religion and politics. I'm not sure why this is surprising. Anyone who leaves their home and goes to work can see this in the micro every single day.

There may have been something in the water and food months before the "Kool-Aid" break. Who knows? But the whole situation still stinks more than the crud that came out of Jim Jones mouth.

funny, i just watched a show on "killer cults" yesterday.

jonestown and this other one, by some guy named greg something or something greg. (weird sex cult thing)

i should have paid more attention but it was just background.

some messed up people out there.

they were interviewing a survivor from jonestown, who got out with her young son.
she lost the rest of her family that day.

she said they did do the dry runs with the cool aid and work got harder and longer and the food got scarce.

infact, they had her kid down there while she was back in the states and said, "if you want to see him again..." so she had to go. missed the part of why they had the kid, must have been through her family.

i'm sure a lot were coerced that way, to go there.

i have always steered way clear of these kind of things, hari krishna's, hell, i forget which were around back then.

i follow Jesus, no man would get my loyalty like they did.

Deep conspiracy:

Jonestown and the Manson murders were CIA jobs.
One, the Manson murders forever tainted the hippy generation.

Jonestown ruined the Christian/left/wing association movement.
Jones was an agent programmed to have this “Christian” sect that became left wing and utopian and the resulting horror forever tainted the political association of Christ and the left something the secret government feared

After that the only Christian politics was right wing just what they wanted

This was a CIA long term operation the result of MKULTRA operational knowledge

reply to post by Willtell

This was a CIA long term operation the result of MKULTRA operational knowledge

Your evidence, what evidence can you provide for this?

The Massacre was the end product of a process that was years in the making. Jones followed a very specific formula to bring his followers to such an extremity:

-He took a page from the Moonies, and put his people on starvation rations. Malnutrition leads to a decline in cognitive function, as well as increased feelings of dependency.

-He put them out in the fields to toil for 12+ hours, tiny yields, pointless gains, no reward for endless labor.

-He compromised family units through sexual domination and subversion of parental authority.

-He isolated them utterly by settling them in strange and inhospitable environs.

A year of that might find most of us accepting our little paper cups with a sense of relief.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by Willtell

 

This was a CIA long term operation the result of MKULTRA operational knowledge

Your evidence, what evidence can you provide for this?

...........Research .............

Dr. Lawrence Laird Layton of the University of California at Berkeley, formerly a chemist for the Manhattan Project and head of the Army’s chemical warfare research division in the early 1950s.

reply to post by The Vagabond


Not CIA
It was the National reconaissance OFFICE not ORGANIZATION. Remember when the killed a senator and NOBODY blinked?

reply to post by Grifter42

Anyone have any insight into how you get 900 people to kill themselves? At some point, wouldn't self preservation kick in? Is there more to this story than we know?

The same way any atrocities are committed: devalue that which will be slaughtered, promise divine reward and push these ideals fanatically until they blind those who hear them.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Look into jim jones history - he was a dis-gruntled democrat in california, and found a bunch of stupid, disgruntled democrats in california to follow him.

Maybe the democrats in california will be able to see their own demise in following their current leaders....

Nah......

reply to post by Grifter42


I read somewhere (jimstone.com I think it was) the whole thing at jonestown was a cover for an attempt by the CIA to try and reinvent the Americian physic and that far from committing suicide, they were all killed.

The killed the politican because soon after he got off the plane he realsied what was going on and tried to get back to the plane but they got him

It was a behavioral study and Senator Schmucko got too close and they sterilized the op.
To answer the question posited ,Muslims seem to have mastered that trick.

Islamic terrorism is interesting to look at through the suicide cult lense, because it definitely shares some key elements, but it's not quite the same program. And the exact same thing is true of the Marines that we send to fight to Islamic terrorists.

The cult that comes closest to the military martyrdom program is probably the Manson Family, which wasn't actually a suicide cult but a homicide cult. This makes sense, because in addition to the usual setup, which still goes on, these organizations eventually ask the follower to take an extra step: to go out from the center of the organization's power and advance the organization's goals by force- this is a complete 180 from the previous step where your average suicide cult stops, which is bringing the follower to the organization's base of power and asking him to surrender all power and submit to the organization's goals.

This means that rather than making the follower cripplingly insecure, you must make their security contingent upon their standing in the group. Pressuring Marines to castrate themselves probably wouldn't make them more likely to follow orders, though it seems to work for suicide cults. Instead sex is generally a lure rather than a sacrifice in these groups.

This program plays on existing insecurities and desperations, and rather than expanding them, makes the follower dependent upon the group to overcome them. The sexually frustrated, anger-filled, starving teenager from Gaza is offered food, weaponry, and 72 virgins after he dies fighting. The skinny kid from Detroit who has had his butt kicked one time too many is offered a hundred thousand brothers to have his back for the rest of his life (plus 72 thai bar girls if he can get himself a West Pac Cruise). The homeless hippie chick who meets Charlie is offered a father figure who understands. The idea with this program isn't to make them too powerless and insecure to get out, but to make them feel like they have become powerful and secure and would rather die than be forced out.

Nothing surprising about it if you know human nature.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


What evidence?
Long years of study I couldn’t condense in a post on a forum.

It’s a theory based on long investigation and observation of many political and occult topics


Try reading Peter Levanda’s Sinister Forces for starters. Stargate Conspiracy by Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett

The close history of Jim Jones, Manson, and the stories and histories behind their movements
As well the history of MKULTRA and various other writers who do deep politics



The CIA and FBI don't only deal with spy's and international and crime threats they also, over the long run, make sure the country stays Anglo Christian and capitalist. No Buddhism, no New age movements, no Islam, no Hinduism, no Yoga... of any great consequence... just Western cultural traditional way of life.



www.whale.to...


www.youtube.com...



www.trutv.com...

I think cult building and, sadly at times, cult killing from within comes from a basic line of approach. It comes in different forms, but the same line.

Often, the cult leaders are very intelligent too, so I have always thought many of them are well aware of the concepts. While others prove the 'monkeys in a room of typewriters eventually producing shakespeare' saying. Odds are going to have a kook following the right model occasionally too. I think Jim Jones was a combination of both and with that same charisma despite the kookiness as Manson had/has.



That's literally from text books and it's the whole core to it working, IMO. Most with sex as the quicker route to the hearts and minds...but certainly not all. Overwhelming, conditional acceptance and support from a whole like minded group can also have dramatic impact. When done for positive reasons, it's a new family. When for evil, it's a cult, IMO.

When the other levels of the pyramid are met by the same single source? It builds a fanatic following....