Ancient Technologies: Alien or Human?

reply to post by soficrow

First of all I would like to state that the idea of one alien race visiting earth is unlikely, in fact based on accrual studies I have been conducting off and on for about five years know there could be as many as 52 known races that exist, know of these races there do seem to have been two of them that have interacted with humans in the past, one being depicted as a snake in the chapter genesis of the Christian bible and the other being a race(possibly in correlation with Jesus Christ) that left thousands of years ago.

This idea could be expanded on by the fact that evolution in its current form could not exist without there being someone manipulating the genetic pool(being as though genes do not just suddenly change by them self’s) of which I might add there have been two papers posted by different scientist as of late pointing out the dormant cells in are genetic structure that could only exist as we know it throw a process called gene slicing (in effect manipulation of the human genome).

reply to post by Harte

The only pic of anything "prehistoric" in your post is that of the tombs at Petra - assuming the pic is showing the older tombs.

All the rest are within historical times,

Yes - but leaving aside Ellora and Ajanta caves and focusing especially on the Egyptian and Lycian, there does seem to be some dispute. (Various references give different dates.)

There is no evidence in any of them for any unknown technology, just as there is no such evidence anywhere in the world. None that has been found, that is.

Right - nothing found. At the least I think, there is much evidence in our world of "lost arts." Speaking of, did you know there's evidence (disputed) that geopolymers were used in pyramid construction?

reply to post by jashn20002000

...evolution in its current form could not exist without there being someone manipulating the genetic pool(being as though genes do not just suddenly change by them self’s)

Erm. There is no doubt even slight environmental change can kick start the evolutionary process via epigenetic mechanisms. But even without slight or significant environmental change - and the inevitable genetic response - we still have the "need->invention" factor. And then there's this: 50,000 generations of bacteria prove that evolution never stops

FYI - Genetic manipulation and modification techniques are "borrowed" from what scientists observed occurring in nature.

reply to post by jashn20002000

...one alien race visiting earth is unlikely, ...there could be as many as 52 known races that exist, ...there do seem to have been two of them that have interacted with humans in the past,

Doris Lessing's Canopus in Argus series describes 3 main alien influences: one "good" (like guides, minimal intervention), one "evil" (physical and spiritual predators) and one fairly removed from human activity. You might want to read the series - I love it.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I think you have mistaken "advance" for "skilled". They were extremely skilled craftsmen using very basic technics and tools.

Hmm. I suspect you might have mistaken complexity for advancement. For example, I could describe microbiologists as skilled craftsmen with fun toys trying to copy natural mechanisms and processes to the great detriment of the larger environment. In this light, rock cut architecture seems truly elegant. Not to mention benign. ...Sometimes simple is more advanced - but I don't think anyone has proved conclusively that early masons were restricted to using "basic tools and techniques."

Phage
Interesting thought experiment but thought experiments should be based on feasible assumptions.

Our Earth's poles do flip. A nearby supernova explosion could alter our planet's electrical environment. Even solar activity has the potential to wipe out our current communications technology. It's possible.

Yes. The magnetic poles reverse. And when they do they leave evidence of having done so. "Flip" is a bit misleading though, the process seems to occur on the order of thousands of years. Also, the last reversal occurred about 780,000 years ago. So, how "ancient" are those ancient human civilizations you're talking about?

A supernova near enough have such an effect would leave other evidence.

edit on 12/29/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

There was a a supernova event around 12,000 years ago. There is chert (a form of quartz that is transparent) that has evidence of severe nuclear irradiation that could only have come from cosmic rays:

ie.lbl.gov...

SLAYER69
First off great premise.

soficrow
For discussion's sake, let's assume ancient humans did develop sophisticated technologies. How could those technologies disappear without a trace? Where is the concrete evidence?

Here's a few thoughts on this threads general premise/subject.

Whose to say that their 'Sophisticated' technologies had any similarities to our own? Meaning, did they even bother with developing explosive energy for example? Could they have made a decision right from the start not to go down that route from the beginning? Electrical energy? The Baghdad Batteries, although interesting, wont power a TV, Radio or much of our more desirable devices, yet they appear to be just that, A low powered battery for whatever reason.

We do find things from time to time that at the time changes our perspectives on how advanced they were for the periods in question. The Antikythera mechanism comes to mind. If it weren't for an alert sponge diver we would never have known of it.

As far as 'Aliens' all too often I'll read 'Aliens' did it. Well, hell, I'm just as open minded as anyone else but when I see things like the following, the Alien theory really doesn't make sense. If they were perfectly cutting and moving these giant blocks around how did these two failures happen?

Here is the largest Egyptian obelisk. It's massive, and if we are to believe the Ancient Alien arguments also a massive ET failure too. There it still sits, broken in the quarry.

Also, the ba'albek question. The one fact that everybody on the 'Aliens did it' side seems to miss and it's staring them in the face is that...

It got stuck and was abandoned in place and never moved.

Yet, similarly sized stones were cut and moved in antiquity and prehistory. How exactly did they do it? I've read many arguments, theories and conjecture on the various techniques. I'm still amazed *however it was done* that they were able to do it in the first place and without our 'Sophisticated' technologies.

Then, we can talk about ancient astronomers. Now, that one is another amazing accomplishment. But there again, some have made some very good arguments that the night sky and a camp fire were all that they had for their evening 'Entertainment' so they'd become very familiar with the movements and patterns all unobstructed by our 'Sophisticated' modern City lights.

I think Primitive man wasn't so Primitive, at least not as primitive as many believe.

edit on 29-12-2013 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

The quarry at Aswan where your Egyptian obelisk photo comes from is a fascinating place and in my opinion one of the best sites to view the remnants of a lost ancient technology. Take a look at the photos on this site -

www.martingracephotography.com...

... the marks on the ground are astounding and certainly don't look pounded or chiseled to me.

This photo in particular stands out for me -

www.martingracephotography.com... -ancient-egyptians

What could have made those marks on the ground?

reply to post by stormcell


Thank you. GREAT link. I found the quote below especially interesting. Also, the level of irradiation that might cause extinctions is extreme - lower exposures would have different/"lesser" effects, many that might not be measurable or even apparent after time.

...Analysis of data from 10 sites across North America indicates there were episodes of cosmic ray bombardments in Late Glacial times. The data are consistent with a recent catastrophic event at 12,500+-100 bp that irradiated the artifacts and associated charcoal with a thermal neutron flux of ~1015 neutrons/cm2. Previous events ~40,000 bp and earlier affected the bedrock chert sources. These data provide the first clear body of terrestrial evidence supporting either one of two prevailing hypotheses for catastrophe in Paleo-Indian times: 1) a giant solar flare during a geomagnetic excursion as explored by Wolfendale2 and Zook3, and 2) a supernova shockwave as forwarded by Brackenridge4, Clarke5, and Dar6. The evidence is reviewed, and implications for Late Glacial mass extinctions and associated plant mutations are explored.

reply to post by soficrow


That sounds interesting I will have to check that out. Where you were stating that one of the three races was a predator it sounds reminiscent of a reptilian race that a writer under the name of David Icke brings up quit often in his books, he believes that there is currently a reptilian race of on earth in control of are political world. And thus trying to establish the one world government to further their goals of presumably power as well the use are negative low frequency emotions as a food source. Sounds like there may be a correlation between your preditoral race and David’s reptilians possibly the same race.

soficrow
but I don't think anyone has proved conclusively that early masons were restricted to using "basic tools and techniques."

All that can be done with very basic tools, so why would there be a need for advance tools, especially since we have never actually found one...I would say that is about as conclusive as it gets...

reply to post by Xtrozero


Not to jump in the middle here but Christopher Dunn has pointed out a few anomalies in some of his videos about strange and unexplained markings in Egypt statues that appear to be from machines. Yes, we haven't seen nor found the machines yet.

Keep digging

SLAYER69
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Not to jump in the middle here but Christopher Dunn has pointed out a few anomalies in some of his videos about strange and unexplained markings in Egypt statues that appear to be from machines. Yes, we haven't seen nor found the machines yet.

Keep digging

edit on 31-12-2013 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

To be honest the only difference between using a machine or doing it by hand is time/people involved. If you have all the time in the world and a lot of people you don't need machines.

Once a person finally realizes that all this can be done by pounding, cutting, drilling, rubbing etc machines would just quicken the process.

JamesTB
This photo in particular stands out for me -

www.martingracephotography.com... -ancient-egyptians

What could have made those marks on the ground?

The 100s (if not 1000s) of used pounding rocks at the site?

Once they figured out that a harder stone can chip/dent/scrap a softer stone they were set for 3500 years, and we see that natural progression with softer sandstone manipulated at first in building when they first started and as they found harder material to use as tools they moved up to harder rock to build.

The process has always been the same, even today. Use a harder material to manipulate a softer one....

reply to post by Xtrozero

soficrow
but I don't think anyone has proved conclusively that early masons were restricted to using "basic tools and techniques."

Xtrozero
All that can be done with very basic tools, so why would there be a need for advance tools, especially since we have never actually found one...I would say that is about as conclusive as it gets...

One of the basic tools/techniques used to split rock is a wedge of wood pushed into an existent crack then soaked - the expanding wood enlarges the crack, and masons pry it apart. Problem is, rock's natural cracks are not perfectly vertical or horizontal, nor do they occur with symmetrical regularity - but rock cut architecture has perfectly vertical and horizontal lines, right angles, arches and columns in symmetrical alignment. Even the most dedicated and committed sculptor with a pocketful of C4 and all the time in the world would have a hard time pulling it off.

The labour thing is huge too - given the level of perfection required, I don't think slaves would provide the quality of work required. Companies today give bonuses to workers just for showing up every day for a month - never mind quality of work. ...Slaves and mistreated servants perfected passive-aggressive sabotage techniques long, long ago.

...I see rock cut architecture as being much more difficult than building with cut stone, although unexplained 'anomalies' exist with both. In any event, I'm open to being educated.


[unfinished]

soficrow
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

soficrow
but I don't think anyone has proved conclusively that early masons were restricted to using "basic tools and techniques."

Xtrozero
All that can be done with very basic tools, so why would there be a need for advance tools, especially since we have never actually found one...I would say that is about as conclusive as it gets...

One of the basic tools/techniques used to split rock is a wedge of wood pushed into an existent crack then soaked - the expanding wood enlarges the crack, and masons pry it apart. Problem is, rock's natural cracks are not perfectly vertical or horizontal, nor do they occur with symmetrical regularity - but rock cut architecture has perfectly vertical and horizontal lines, right angles, arches and columns in symmetrical alignment. Even the most dedicated and committed sculptor with a pocketful of C4 and all the time in the world would have a hard time pulling it off.

The labour thing is huge too - given the level of perfection required, I don't think slaves would provide the quality of work required. Companies today give bonuses to workers just for showing up every day for a month - never mind quality of work. ...Slaves and mistreated servants perfected passive-aggressive sabotage techniques long, long ago.

...I see rock cut architecture as being much more difficult than building with cut stone, although unexplained 'anomalies' exist with both. In any event, I'm open to being educated.


[unfinished]

I have seen in ancient and modern rock cutting where small drill holes will guild the split by creating the weakest path. After that it is pound and sand. Do you have a picture of a split that was perfect without help?

Xtrozero
To be honest the only difference between using a machine or doing it by hand is time/people involved. If you have all the time in the world and a lot of people you don't need machines.

Once a person finally realizes that all this can be done by pounding, cutting, drilling, rubbing etc machines would just quicken the process.

Normally I'd agree with you but these were on statues and evidence of a machine blade slip, or over cuts. If they were doing it slowly/methodically by hand I highly doubt they'd keep cutting a 1/4 past the desired length as is apparent.

Searching now for the videos.

reply to post by soficrow


I don't think I've ever seen Phage corrected before. Well played.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I have seen in ancient and modern rock cutting where small drill holes will guild the split by creating the weakest path.

The question of whether or not the ancients used drills is in dispute. In any event, the idea being investigated here is that tools could have existed that stopped working due to environmental change and became unrecognizable within a few generations.

Imagine an event or series of events that trigger back-to-back earthquakes, massive tsunamis, then a nuclear winter/ice age, and alter the atmosphere in such a way that common "tools" no longer work. Large populations and cities are decimated. Survivors are concerned with survival, not teaching their children about now-obsolete technology, except as tales for fireside chatter. One day, the great grandchildren pick up a laser-like tool once used for rock-cutting, say, "What a funny looking stick," play with it a while and discard it. Stories become legends then myths about "magic wands." The kids pick up an orb that one time worked to levitate workers on pallets up to their rock carving stations - they say, "What a funny looking rock!" throw it around for a while and forget about it. Stories become legends then myths about "magic carpets."

Imagine that a small group of knowledgeable, wealthy and powerful elite know what's coming and prepare so they can survive to run the world. A few people outside the 'enclave' figure things out and want to tell everyone. They are told ordinary people will just panic and are better off not knowing. "Besides, we don't really know exactly when or what will happen and nothing can be done anyway," they're told. Those who don't shut up are killed. When the "event" finally happens, ordinary people are not prepared in any way. Only the knowledgeable, wealthy and powerful elite, and their children and close minions know what really happened. They keep their knowledge to themselves and run the world, silently, from the shadows. Now, imagine that this has already happened, maybe more than once.



RE: Supernovas and Gamma Ray Bursts

Every 50 years or so, a massive star in our galaxy blows itself apart in a supernova explosion. Supernovas are one of the most violent events in the universe, and the force of the explosion generates a blinding flash of radiation, as well as shock waves analogous to sonic booms.

Gamma rays, neutrinos and cosmic rays (particulate matter) travel at different speeds - the effects will vary in severity and in terms of what is affected, and when, depending on the size and distance from the Earth.

"Coronal mass ejections" from our Sun can cause geomagnetic storms on Earth. These storms effects are only now beginning to be recognized.

Intense Geomagnetic Storms and their possible effects on society:

Modern society is becoming ever increasingly dependent on space technology for daily routine functions, such as communication, navigation, data transmission, global surveillance of resource surveys, atmospheric weather, etc. Space weather can influence the performance and reliability of space-borne and ground based technological systems and can endanger human life and health. Intense and super intense geomagnetic storms create hostile space weather conditions that can generate many hazards to the spacecrafts as well as technological systems at ground. Geomagnetic storms can cause life-threatening power outages such as Hydro Quebec power failure during March 1989 magnetic storm. Strong geomagnetically induced currents (GICs) produced by short period variations in the geomagnetic field during intense magnetic storms can cause damage to power transmission lines and corrode long pipelines. Maitri station data clearly shows the correlation between the substorm activity and the southward component of the IMF. Adverse space weather conditions created by intense and super intense magnetic storms could affect communication, navigation and proper functioning as well as the life span of technological systems in space.

Also of interest:

Earth’s Global Electric Circuit – an integrated framework involving the lower atmosphere, the ionosphere and the magnetosphere:

The Earth’s electrical environment can be regarded as a single giant electrical circuit that connects currents and electric fields in the magnetosphere, ionosphere and the Earth’s lower atmosphere. The classical picture of the global electric circuit (GEC) presupposes that the thunderclouds are the only source and the fair-weather fields are set up by the upward flowing currents, from the thundercloud system, which charges the ionosphere to a few hundred kilovolts with respect to Earth. It is now recognized that there are at least two other important sources that contribute to the global fields. The solar wind/magnetosphere dynamo generates 30-150 kV potential drop across the northern and southern polar ionospheric caps which when mapped down to the surface can produce a ±20% changes in the air-Earth current and vertical electric field. A smaller contribution comes from the ionospheric dynamo originating in 100-150 km altitude range due to tidal forcing. Potential difference of 5-10kV are generated by this source in the ionosphere, and when mapped to the surface can produce perturbations typically few percent in the observed fields. The study of GEC provides a good framework for exploring the interconnections and coupling of various regions of the atmosphere. Long-term measurements of electrical parameters, namely, the atmospheric vertical electric field, conductivity and total current density, that are required to obtain an adequate description of the GEC, will be useful in such an integrated approach involving the various atmospheric regions.

stormcell
There was a a supernova event around 12,000 years ago. There is chert (a form of quartz that is transparent) that has evidence of severe nuclear irradiation that could only have come from cosmic rays:

ie.lbl.gov...

There was a supernova?

Then why does your link say:

1) a giant solar flare during a geomagnetic excursion as explored by Wolfendale2 and Zook3, and 2) a supernova shockwave as forwarded by Brackenridge4, Clarke5, and Dar6. The evidence is reviewed, and implications for Late Glacial mass extinctions and associated plant mutations are explored.

You want there to have been a supernova so you don't mention the solar flare possibility. You not only didn't mention it, you implied that the matter is settled.
Why?

Harte