Ancient Technologies: Alien or Human?

Phage
reply to post by rickymouse

 

That's biology, not technology. Unless you are insinuating that dolphins have genetically altered themselves.

edit on 12/29/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Why would they need to genetically alter themselves, evolution gave them a lot of good properties. I don't think they need to be producing advanced cell phones or microwave ovens.

reply to post by rickymouse

Like I said then.
Biology, not technology.

Xtrozero
Anytime I see a post like this I just imagine some super advance race comes here and uses all their advance technology to only manipulate raw stone....hehe when you look at it like that it sounds really ridiculous, doesn't it?

edit on 29-12-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

well, think of it.
that's what people were using.
what? give the locals 25th century tech?

do you think they would take factories with them?
it'd be different if we figured out we lived on ring world or a dyson sphere.

then there would be no guessing.

reply to post by soficrow


nice post, op.

i just have a problem with some kind of ruling elite class, that holds all the secrets.

maybe some might have an oddity or 2 but some organized, generational "keepers" is hard for me to swallow.

super nova? too close to the earth and it would be sterilized.

tales of atlantis for earth centric disasters.

but tales of star people coming down and teaching us, are all over the world.

doesn't mean aliens might have done all that, by themselves, just gave us the means for a little while and show us what can be done.

"teach a man to fish" so to speak.

reply to post by soficrow


Wow! That's a ton of questions in one post

I really like the "why" question in your first paragraph. In all the discussion I read and shows I watch, it rarely gets addressed much less answered.

Either moving huge stones around was easy for these early people or it wasn't. If it wasn't, what was the driving force (the why)? Where is a modern analog we could derive a possible "why" from?

As far as a changing environment, I am not sure what we could even entertain what would make that much difference. Maybe the oxygen content was higher which made bigger/stronger humans? Maybe it was warmer which made for...more melty rocks. Maybe it was windier and they just attached large sails to the stones to move around. I really can't offer a worthy tidbit here.

Aliens? At this point, why not? I am not a huge believer but some of the counter arguments seem just as weak.

Unknown ancient civilizations? Yes. The way we keep moving the timeline back, it would be arrogant to believe what we know this moment will hold for all time. What we know today is just a pause until the next discovery is made. That's actually pretty exciting.

reply to post by Xtrozero

...I just imagine some super advance race comes here and uses all their advance technology to only manipulate raw stone....hehe when you look at it like that it sounds really ridiculous, doesn't it?

"Only manipulate raw stone"?! Stone mason technology is astounding. [Note the "Mason" appellation.] Check out these examples from pre-history.

Al Khazneh (“The Treasury”‎) at Petra
Front view
Distance - Petra
Tombs at Petra
Lycian Tombs
Aby Simbel
Ajanta Caves
Ellora Caves

reply to post by soficrow


I agree it is astounding, but not for an advance space faring race...Even today we would not work build anything in just raw stone other than as art maybe. I think you missed my point in there is nothing advance about working with raw stone.

Mamatus

There was also some conjecture that the Mayans escaped the conquistadors that had surrounded Machu Picchu, by flying off..... Just conjecture but I wanted to show you something kinda interesting in response to your post.

Mayans were from Central America, Machu Picchu is in South America.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I agree it is astounding, but not for an advance space faring race...Even today we would not work build anything in just raw stone other than as art maybe. I think you missed my point in there is nothing advance about working with raw stone.

My premise involves humans developing advanced technologies - not aliens. I doubt we have any individual or company today who could do the work illustrated above. And I think you're wrong - the technology required to create Petra, Aby Simbel, the Ajanta Caves and the Ellora Caves is highly advanced. Working with stone is tricky - sculptors go with the stone and let the figure emerge but carving straight lines, right angles and the like into hard rock is another story. Never mind the detailed architectural plans required. And remember, mistakes carved into rock cannot be fixed or fudged. Once it's done, it's done. Look at those pictures again. Please.

As it happens though, if I were an emissary from an advanced planet sent to 'teach' the primitive earthlings, I certainly would create a curriculum that used the materials at hand. In fact, the whole 'Masons' and their secrets' thing is easy to understand when you recognize the knowledge, skill and technology required to complete these projects. It could still go either way though - human developed knowledge or alien teachings.

reply to post by soficrow


For starters there is a theory that the Nazca lines could've been plotted from above by the ancient Peruvians themselves by building hot air balloons, which would be astounding if true because it would mean the first manned flights occurred centuries before the Wright brothers.

Sometimes I think the ancients accomplishments are undermined by the ancient alien theory, The great wall wasn't built by aliens and it dwarves anything in Egypt or elsewhere, sure there are a few millenia between the two cultures but the Chinese weren't exactly light years ahead of the Egyptians at the time.

The question of 'why?' is often overshadowed by the question of 'how'?. Once we understand the why we can then begin to question the how.

reply to post by Phage


Ok, for fun: What are the dolphins we train to work for us considered? Technology or not?

reply to post by soficrow

I commend your attempt at finding alternate ideas, besides the old ATS stand-by "Aliens did it. Ancient man could have never done it".

Although I'm not sure a magnetic pole reversal would have a result in wiping out all these missing ancient techs (stone masonry just as an example), also not sure if supernovae ( some of the most powerful explosions in the universe) would only affect tech and not destroy much more.

Other reasons for lost tech are almost too numerous to count, though. Not just "Aliens picked up and left".

S&F

reply to post by Chamberf=6

Other reasons for lost tech are almost too numerous to count, though. Not just "Aliens picked up and left".

Thanks. ...Any chance you can come up with a list?

reply to post by Thecakeisalie

Sometimes I think the ancients accomplishments are undermined by the ancient alien theory, ...

Me too. In this context I would think "ancient aliens" interacted with humans more as "equals" - attracted by potential at least, and recognizing our ancients' accomplishments.

The question of 'why?' is often overshadowed by the question of 'how'?. Once we understand the why we can then begin to question the how.

Ah yes. Back to necessity being the mother of invention. What was the need?

reply to post by ABNARTY

I really like the "why" question in your first paragraph. In all the discussion I read and shows I watch, it rarely gets addressed much less answered.

Thank you. I do fervently believe that necessity really is the mother of invention - and if we can figure out the need being met, the 'why' might lead to the 'how.' I also think that new 'needs' are most often created by some kind of radical change - and tend NOT to think that people perform at genius level when under threat. [Eg., some egocentric megalomaniac demanding "Figure it out or die."]

Either moving huge stones around was easy for these early people or it wasn't. If it wasn't, what was the driving force (the why)? Where is a modern analog we could derive a possible "why" from?

Good observations, questions.

...Unknown ancient civilizations? Yes. The way we keep moving the timeline back, it would be arrogant to believe what we know this moment will hold for all time. What we know today is just a pause until the next discovery is made. That's actually pretty exciting.

Exciting, yes.

reply to post by ABNARTY

As far as a changing environment, I am not sure what we could even entertain what would make that much difference. Maybe the oxygen content was higher which made bigger/stronger humans?

I'm thinking differently on this one. ...Perhaps there was a time when the environment was more electrical or something (like before a big storm) - and because of that environmental 'condition' a particular stone had the ability to lift weight (other stones, people). Then, when the atmosphere calmed down, that "lifting property" was lost. ...Maybe not likely but obviously conceivable.

ancient technology is unbelievable like NAZCA people they draw and huge images of animals they believe that God look at that image and god will never forget them.

reply to post by soficrow


The only pic of anything "prehistoric" in your post is that of the tombs at Petra - assuming the pic is showing the older tombs.

All the rest are within historical times, the oldest being Abu Simbel, which dates to around 1250 BC.

The rest were carved during the Common Era.

There is no evidence in any of them for any unknown technology, just as there is no such evidence anywhere in the world. None that has been found, that is.

Harte

soficrow


My premise involves humans developing advanced technologies - not aliens. I doubt we have any individual or company today who could do the work illustrated above. And I think you're wrong - the technology required to create Petra, Aby Simbel, the Ajanta Caves and the Ellora Caves is highly advanced. Working with stone is tricky - sculptors go with the stone and let the figure emerge but carving straight lines, right angles and the like into hard rock is another story. Never mind the detailed architectural plans required. And remember, mistakes carved into rock cannot be fixed or fudged. Once it's done, it's done. Look at those pictures again. Please.

I think you have mistaken "advance" for "skilled". They were extremely skilled craftsmen using very basic technics and tools.

As it happens though, if I were an emissary from an advanced planet sent to 'teach' the primitive earthlings, I certainly would create a curriculum that used the materials at hand. In fact, the whole 'Masons' and their secrets' thing is easy to understand when you recognize the knowledge, skill and technology required to complete these projects. It could still go either way though - human developed knowledge or alien teachings.

Why would you do it that way? Why not go right into metals and higher learning? They could even start schools of advance learning and just take children to establish an education program from early age that would see within one generation massive leaps and bounds of progression that would have taken 1000s of years to build on its own, like how it all happened.

Chamberf=6
reply to post by soficrow

 

I commend your attempt at finding alternate ideas, besides the old ATS stand-by "Aliens did it. Ancient man could have never done it".

Although I'm not sure a magnetic pole reversal would have a result in wiping out all these missing ancient techs (stone masonry just as an example), also not sure if supernovae ( some of the most powerful explosions in the universe) would only affect tech and not destroy much more.

Other reasons for lost tech are almost too numerous to count, though. Not just "Aliens picked up and left".

S&F

Is this lost tech that you speak of based on their ability to use only basic tools and human labor to work stone? If it is I really don't think it is lost at all for we have had many modern day demonstrations of how they did it.

Can you list a couple of the so called techs that you might be thinking of? Measuring, cutting, moving, up righting etc are areas that we basically know how they did it.