Ancient Technologies: Alien or Human?

reply to post by SLAYER69

First off great premise. ...Whose to say that their 'Sophisticated' technologies had any similarities to our own?

Thanks and GREAT point. Necessity IS the mother of invention - if you alter the conditions, you change the necessities, goals AND products.

...I think Primitive man wasn't so Primitive, at least not as primitive as many believe.

I agree. ...Great post. Thank you.

reply to post by rickymouse

Very good thoughts Softcrow. I believe that there was once an advanced race of beings on this planet. Their technology may have been more advanced than ours. Where did they go? Who knows. Like you said, all the technology could have been destroyed and made into tools and weapons in the past by our ancient ancestors. ...I believe that this is more possible than aliens traveling here from a distant planet. ...My mind will remain open.

Thanks rickymouse. ...If our species has been "advanced" in the past, and there are aliens who travel about, then I think it's likely we have interacted in the past. I'm definitely focused on the idea that we evolved on our own though, and that our planet's instability and exposed position tend to set us back. Possibly with some regularity.



PS. My name is sofi, not soft.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

Please enjoy some discussion on "UFOs" in Art

Please feel free to click on the little linkie I provided in my OP: (Debunking) UFO’s in Ancient Art

...What's with this fascination and feeling people have that we were actually MORE advanced technologically the further back in time we go?

It'd be just as an interesting thread to explore the psychological foundations for this fantasy as opposed to attempting to twist and warp well understood historical items ...

Hmm. I did not say we were "MORE advanced technologically" in the past - just that we were sophisticated. In my opinion, the superior 'advancement' was more evident in other areas. As far as exploring the psychological foundations for cultural fantasies and assumptions of unassailable understanding, I'm thinking of starting another thread in another forum to deal with that topic.

…We know our planet is unstable in a variety of ways, but seem unwilling to work together to protect ourselves and each other. As a consequence, the predatorial uber-wealthy prevail above the mass of humanity, and are best positioned to survive catastrophe. Is this our real priority? Do we really want the most greedy to perpetuate our species?

It actually breaks me when thinking upon the subject, the thought the last of our species to be in those filled with greed. Our ultimate downfall.

Cracking thread though man, I do believe our history is more incredible than fiction would even write.

reply to post by Phage


Perhaps you could address my questions. I think they're quite legitimate and deserving of some attention at least.

...what might that mean to us, here and now?

Is it true that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it?

…Are we overly reliant on our technologies to sustain our civilization? Do human societies really depend on an elite knowledge class? What body of knowledge is most important? What is progress, if conditions and material developments are transient?

…We know our planet is unstable in a variety of ways, but seem unwilling to work together to protect ourselves and each other. As a consequence, the predatorial uber-wealthy prevail above the mass of humanity, and are best positioned to survive catastrophe. Is this our real priority? Do we really want the most greedy to perpetuate our species?

…Did we have relationships with aliens in the ancient past? Did they abandon us because our planet is unstable? Or because we don't have our moral-ethical poop together?

reply to post by soficrow


You know the following line of reasoning has always made me wonder if maybe they did have some sort/version of our technology but in a very limited manner for the very elite/few.

…Are we overly reliant on our technologies to sustain our civilization? Do human societies really depend on an elite knowledge class? What body of knowledge is most important? What is progress, if critical environmental conditions and material developments are transient?

I've often imagined the high Priests of this or that early Civilization/Culture being fairy educated and sophisticated. Using things like the Baghdad Battery for things such as Gold plating items and by doing so giving the illusion that they could transmute one metal to another. Those less educated may fall for it. That is of course if they weren't allowed to handle/scratch the item.

Or

The priests knowing when the next lunar eclipse would happen etc etc etc. All the while their knowledge was kept tight lipped so as to insure their elevated place/status among the few. Then sometimes, if and when those 'Elite Priests' would for whatever reasons, die off be it from disease or a power struggle and were murdered for being loyal to the wrong side etc, then for being such a small tight group their secrets would be lost.

What metals would we prefer to use if more available for electronics? Gold and Platinum. I'm of the thought that if some less educated peasant came across a device from an ancient burial site/grave/ancient temple that they wouldn't have a clue about how or what it was used for but may recognize the fact that it was Gold/Platinum and could have hypothetically melted it down (for more manageable and unrecognizable sizeshape) *fearing being caught as a grave robber* to coins, small bars and what not.

Or

A library being burned/plundered with scrolls/knowledge lost *that were only able to be read by those who were taught how to read at the time?

Does anybody reading this think a Spanish Conquistador plundering the New world would have known the difference or even cared before tossing these into a pile for shipping then later in Spain melting them down?

reply to post by soficrow


Last night I watched the finale to Big History, and I started thinking about entropy. The movement from order into chaos. Complex into simple. According to the show, paper can burn; but ashes can't be turned into paper. Apples decompose; but ruined, smushed fruit cannot be made whole. When you think about it, entropy could explain why we haven't seen conclusive proof of "leaps" by an ancient culture. A supernova could have played a role, or a meteorite could have scraped away a culture, all in a contained geographical area. The planet itself isn't exactly a child's playhouse, what with supervolcanoes, quakes, ice ages, floods, etc. Nature is always reclaiming her own. Or maybe, it's more of a cosmic entropy: in the words of BG's Leoben, "This has all happened, and it will happen again."

OP, you've provided great food for thought on this cold winter day.

reply to post by soficrow

...what might that mean to us, here and now?

A bit vague. Can you clarify?

Is it true that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it?

Depends on how broad a brush you want to paint "history" with but people are known to make the same mistakes whether or not they remember doing it previously.

…Are we overly reliant on our technologies to sustain our civilization? Do human societies really depend on an elite knowledge class? What body of knowledge is most important? What is progress, if conditions and material developments are transient?

I suppose you could say we are overly reliant on our technologies but civilization requires technology. Was Rome "overly reliant" on their water system? Rome could not have existed without it.

Human society depends on knowledge, be it shamanistic or scientific. I would suggest that the shamanistic version may be more "elite" and secretive than the scientific.

All knowledge is important. None is more important because it is all interrelated. All knowledge is important because it counteracts ignorance.

Progress is the quest for reduced human suffering. An elusive and moving target in a world with a rapidly growing human population.

…We know our planet is unstable in a variety of ways, but seem unwilling to work together to protect ourselves and each other. As a consequence, the predatorial uber-wealthy prevail above the mass of humanity, and are best positioned to survive catastrophe. Is this our real priority? Do we really want the most greedy to perpetuate our species?

We are not unwilling to work together. It is human nature not to act unless it becomes absolutely necessary to do so. Perhaps procrastination is an evolutionary trait. Sorry, I don't buy into the extreme class division stuff. There have always been people at the top. They have farther and harder to fall and they always do.

…Did we have relationships with aliens in the ancient past? Did they abandon us because our planet is unstable? Or because we don't have our moral-ethical poop together?

I don't know but I don't have much reason to think so.

yorkshirelad
There are many many tools nothing more than 150 years old that cannot be explained for the simple fact that all users are dead and the tool use was never documented.

Can you give some examples?

reply to post by soficrow


Ya forgot supernatural.

reply to post by Phage


Thanks Phage. A few things stand out for me in your response...

...Progress is the quest for reduced human suffering.

Interesting! And a bit surprising. Many would disagree, or at least rephrase. Eg., Progress is the quest to bypass the need for human labor and exertion; or progress in medicine leads to super-longevity if not immortality.

...civilization requires technology

Define technology. I'm thinking about the living bridges in Indonesia(?).


Pics later. Sorry. Guests just arrived.

reply to post by soficrow

Interesting! And a bit surprising. Many would disagree, or at least rephrase. Eg., Progress is the quest to bypass the need for human labor and exertion; or progress in medicine leads to super-longevity if not immortality.

I don't see a disagreement. But bypassing labor and exertion just seems like laziness, not progress.

Define technology. I'm thinking about the living bridges in Indonesia(?).

Technology is the manipulation of the environment. A bridge (living or dead) is technology. A tool (stone or steel) is technology. A water system. A sewer system. An agricultural system. Civilization depends on technology.

But to try to return to the topic; define advanced technology.

reply to post by Phage

...Technology is the manipulation of the environment. A bridge (living or dead) is technology. A tool (stone or steel) is technology. A water system. A sewer system. An agricultural system. Civilization depends on technology.

But to try to return to the topic; define advanced technology.

Granting your definition that technology is the manipulation of the environment, I suggest you might not recognize truly advanced technology when you see it because it is integrated seamlessly into the natural environment.

Pictures worth a thousand words: I give you the living bridge.

reply to post by SLAYER69


This bit really needs repeating:

Does anybody reading this think a Spanish Conquistador plundering the New world would have known the difference or even cared before tossing these into a pile for shipping then later in Spain melting them down?

reply to post by soficrow

Granting your definition that technology is the manipulation of the environment, I suggest you might not recognize truly advanced technology when you see it because it is integrated seamlessly into the natural environment.

You avoided my question and without an answer your suggestion is somewhat pointless. Maybe dolphins have advanced technology. We just don't recognize it.

Don't forget Arthur C. Clarke "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".
Advances in ancient technologies did not have to follow the path our civilization took. Other methods may be available but are hidden due to our inherent bias by "our" facts. No alien involvement required.
Looking from the nearby (time wise) viewpoint of 100 years ago would anyone recognize a modern electronic device? Then take it further how would we recognize technology from a mere 2000 years in our own future?

I do ponder about what devices or techniques they used to create certain structures.

Like the pyramids for example. If I recall correctly it some showed a degrading in the engineering behind its construction, as to where it just got sloppy and forgotten about.

Such things must of been trade secrets to only certain civilizations had achieved and displayed through the ages. I can`t recall a name of one civilization, but it some type of technology where a sea ship could breath out fire. However, the actual trade secret was lost as well.

Also, I don`t think it was so much a fall from the heavens, just dispute between Empires and Royalties in ancient civilizations, keeping their secrets as if it was a reward from the Gods themselves.

reply to post by soficrow

I must have read it as softcrow long ago when I was tires and I haven't altered that false memory till you just told me it was sofi. Strange how when you think you know something it effects your vision.

I guess studying on this monitor has effected my eyesight, I should get a new monitor that I can adjust the intensity. I complained, then my wife screwed it up. My daughter, who works on computers all day long at various locations in hospitals around the country, tried and couldn't adjust it, the icons don't make sense. She told me to buy a new monitor because this one sucks. I thought it was just me at first. It is screwing with my eyes, I can see in the dark now and my eyes reflect light like a deer in the headlights. It's not cataracts though. I read what it is but can't remember the name.

reply to post by Phage


Dolphins have advanced technology built right in. They also seem to be better at swimming than people and can go faster than some motorboats with ease. It seems that they are more advanced than humans....naturally.

Same with birds, they do not have to build airplanes to fly and never pay taxes. Their house materials are free and their choice of materials and system of building them is pretty darn good. Considering their brain size, I suspect that the efficiency of their brains surpasses humans by ten fold.

We are not the most advanced creatures on this planet, we just think we are.

reply to post by rickymouse

That's biology, not technology. Unless you are insinuating that dolphins have genetically altered themselves.