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Intelligent Design; Does Modern Genetic Research Mean Darwin's THEORY of Evolution Belongs In The..

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posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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edmc^2

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

Evolution theory is never a part or parcel of Creation.

In fact evolution is a slap to the face of the Creator himself as he is portrayed as incapable of creating a perfect being. Furthermore where does Jesus Christ or Adam and Eve fit in the picture when the Scripture said that they were created in God's image?


So we have a couple of options here...god can pull a human out of a hat or any other magic and mirrors type event or he could have a process that takes 14 billion years in the making to get us. In both cases it would be his work, his design his creation on a grand scale. And who says we are perfect yet? Does God have a time limitation that he needs to make things instantly, we might have a long way to go before we are finally "in his image". It seems you are the one setting limitations on God, saying what he can and can not do, or how....

Adam and Eve... Great story...

Think about it...at one time Adam and Eve were in Eden running around naked with no self-awareness or understanding of right or wrong, much like the animal kingdom is like. Eve takes a bite out of the apple from the tree of knowledge and became self aware and put cloth on. She also became aware of right and wrong too. Because of this God kicked them out of Eden.....

This sounds like a great story of the evolution of man...we were once animals and at some point we became self aware and understood right and wrong. A lion kills every day but there is no right or wrong in the animal kingdom, but humans at some point left the animal kingdom and Adam and Eve is that story...



How do you fit into the picture man's sin and Jesus giving his life for the forgiveness of sin?


We are no longer a part of the animal kingdom. we can sin and do sin. God tried wrath to guide us (old testament) and it didn't work so he sent his only son to save us. Once again evolution is just a process, we are mostly not there yet, but then who am I to judge God on how long it should take...




posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 09:31 PM
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Xtrozero

edmc^2

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

Evolution theory is never a part or parcel of Creation.

In fact evolution is a slap to the face of the Creator himself as he is portrayed as incapable of creating a perfect being. Furthermore where does Jesus Christ or Adam and Eve fit in the picture when the Scripture said that they were created in God's image?


So we have a couple of options here...god can pull a human out of a hat or any other magic and mirrors type event or he could have a process that takes 14 billion years in the making to get us. In both cases it would be his work, his design his creation on a grand scale. And who says we are perfect yet? Does God have a time limitation that he needs to make things instantly, we might have a long way to go before we are finally "in his image". It seems you are the one setting limitations on God, saying what he can and can not do, or how....

Adam and Eve... Great story...

Think about it...at one time Adam and Eve were in Eden running around naked with no self-awareness or understanding of right or wrong, much like the animal kingdom is like. Eve takes a bite out of the apple from the tree of knowledge and became self aware and put cloth on. She also became aware of right and wrong too. Because of this God kicked them out of Eden.....

This sounds like a great story of the evolution of man...we were once animals and at some point we became self aware and understood right and wrong. A lion kills every day but there is no right or wrong in the animal kingdom, but humans at some point left the animal kingdom and Adam and Eve is that story...



How do you fit into the picture man's sin and Jesus giving his life for the forgiveness of sin?


We are no longer a part of the animal kingdom. we can sin and do sin. God tried wrath to guide us (old testament) and it didn't work so he sent his only son to save us. Once again evolution is just a process, we are mostly not there yet, but then who am I to judge God on how long it should take...


Interesting take but it's convoluted to the point of no recognition.

Problem with your theory is that when Adam and Eve were created - both were full mature man and woman with the capacity to think and the ability to feel and express it.

[Gen 1:27-28 NLT] 27 So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. 28 Then God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground."

[Gen 2:19 NLT]
"So the LORD God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one."

[Gen 2:20 NLT]
"He gave names to all the livestock, all the birds of the sky, and all the wild animals. But still there was no helper just right for him."

[Gen 2:21 NLT]
"So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. While the man slept, the LORD God took out one of the man's ribs and closed up the opening."

[Gen 2:22 NLT]
"Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and he brought her to the man."

[Gen 2:23 NLT]
""At last!" the man exclaimed. "This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called 'woman,' because she was taken from 'man.'""

[Gen 2:24 NLT]
"This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."

[Gen 2:25 NLT]
"Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame."

There was no mention of them starting their life as a "single celled organism" then evolving from fish to amphibian to reptile to mammal to Adam and Eve for millions of years. This is so far fetch of an idea.



posted on Jan, 1 2014 @ 11:09 PM
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edmc^2

Problem with your theory is that when Adam and Eve were created - both were full mature man and woman with the capacity to think and the ability to feel and express it.


So how did he create us? Did he use the laws of the universe he created, or did he just blink Adam and Eve into existence? I don't see a time line in the passage, so was it instant or 4 billion years in that creation?



There was no mention of them starting their life as a "single celled organism" then evolving from fish to amphibian to reptile to mammal to Adam and Eve for millions of years. This is so far fetch of an idea.


It seems man was already man in most of those passages, so evolution had already done its job. It really doesn't say how we were created, and there are a lot of metaphors in the bible. Also to make man from clay would suggest we started out as a non-living substance which is correct. We are basically a carbon life form, and even the bible suggests 666 is the number of man, which is the atomic weight of carbon with 6 electrons, 6 neutrons and 6 protons...

So I guess the writers of the bible could have been Godly inspired and they wrote it down with the knowledge at hand they had to work with, and even if God gave them that understanding they had to write it so a man of that time could understand it.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 





So how did he create us? Did he use the laws of the universe he created, or did he just blink Adam and Eve into existence? I don't see a time line in the passage, so was it instant or 4 billion years in that creation?


Well according to the "instruction manual for life" - the Bible, it simply says:

[Gen 1:26 ASV]
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

[Gen 1:27 ASV]
"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."


[Gen 2:7 ASV]
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

[Gen 2:7 ASV]
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

[Gen 2:21 ASV]
"And Jehovah God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof:"

[Gen 2:22 ASV]
"and the rib, which Jehovah God had taken from the man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

[Gen 1:28 ASV]
"And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."



So no he didn't "just blink Adam and Eve into existence" but formed Adam first from the "dust of the ground" or to be scientifically accurate 'from the elements of the ground'

Namely:

carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, chlorine, magnesium, potassium, sodium and other elements - 41 elements in all found in the ground.

Then followed by Eve formed from one of Adam's ribs.

Now - why a "rib" and not any other body parts?

Well it's been found that the rib can grow back on it's own.

As for how long it took to create Adam and Eve, no info was given but one thing we do know - according to King David:

[Psa 139:14 ASV]
"I will give thanks unto thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: Wonderful are thy works; And that my soul knoweth right well."






It seems man was already man in most of those passages, so evolution had already done its job. It really doesn't say how we were created, and there are a lot of metaphors in the bible. Also to make man from clay would suggest we started out as a non-living substance which is correct. We are basically a carbon life form, and even the bible suggests 666 is the number of man, which is the atomic weight of carbon with 6 electrons, 6 neutrons and 6 protons...

So I guess the writers of the bible could have been Godly inspired and they wrote it down with the knowledge at hand they had to work with, and even if God gave them that understanding they had to write it so a man of that time could understand it.


Like I said - no mention of God using evolution to produce man but a DIRECT creation from the elements of the ground. Then, once the body was fully formed, the Scripture said:

[Gen 2:7 ASV]
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

In short Jehovah God INFUSED Life into the human body - by breathing "into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul."

Then endowed him with attributes similar to his, thus man/woman were created in his image and likeness.

Far from a product of evolution theory.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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Brotherman
reply to post by edmc^2
 


Although I agree abiogenesis is important to understand evolution in its differing forms whether cosmological or biological, does not exactly mean that there was a creator, I believe that there is some kind of creator but I can't really prove it kind of like science can't say for sure what caused the singularity in the big bang to occur either. Can I ask, Have you read this whole thread? Because this is covered quite extensively and most of the things have been a great help to my learning of all the sided arguments in a neutral manner? If not I would suggest going through and checking it all out.


you can't prove it, either way.

why try? why?

you people default to science, but that is worse than religion, for facts or info.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 05:54 AM
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Xtrozero

edmc^2

Brotherman
reply to post by edmc^2
 


I'm an ardent skeptic in regards to the topic but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is foundation-less, what makes you say that?


It's foundation-less because evolutionist had to come up with an equally foundation-less hypothesis - the abiogenesis hypothesis.

Which posits that life came by accident and blind chance from absolutely nothing.

Thus foundation-less.

Creation is on the other hand have a foundation - A Creator.




This whole Evolution/Creationism argument has one major flaw.

Evolution is a tool and creationism is a purpose. The two are totally different things, so how can we debate one against the other? Its like debating what an artist was thinking when he paints and trying to compare his brush to his feelings.

The brush is the mechanism to which painting can be accomplished, just like evolution is a mechanism to show how life can change.

I never understood why creationists never suggested that God used evolution to make man...So what tool did God use?

I think the more precise debate would be whether evolution was random events that follow precise laws of the universe or whether there is an intelligence behind it all.

I was never comfortable with creationism since it seems to me that it reduces God down to doing parlor tricks and not following his own universal laws he created. On one side it is suggested that given a few 100 millions of years complex life can evolve from simple life and on the other side God pulls a human out of a hat and sets him on the planet.





edit on 31-12-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)


yeah, random and then, ta daaaaa!!
btw, what ARE His universal laws?

have you seen the 2014 dolphin iphone?



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 05:59 AM
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I say everything is tainted, there are too many people in the world who insist there was something greater than us which created us. Musta been some really powerful being that made our awesome selves huh?, seein as we are such amazingly great critters huh?.

Try to eliminate that "omnipotent god figure", and see if the term "intelligent design" even creeps into one's explanation of things. What if we are just the result of randomness that happens to fit together in a certain way?. Humans are simply another iteration on a basic model, most creatures here have traits which make them related, both physical and chemical.

There is probably a world out there with entities / animals, based on a completely different chemical / elemental basis that thinks something greater than them created themselves too, seein as how gawdawful great they are too.

If one thinks about religion deeply enough, it eliminates itself, unless one is not practiced in logical thinking which is the entire goal of the thing itself. I would like to believe there is something to this life but the closer I look, the less likely it appears there is.

Really try to think about things without letting the way the world is conditioned to think influence your thoughts.

Betcha can't.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 08:02 AM
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edit on 2-1-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 08:19 AM
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Revolution9
Intelligent Design; Does Modern Genetic Research Mean Darwin's THEORY of Evolution Belongs In The Museum???




Yes it is amazing to watch some in modern science try to drag this old baggage around. It should have been the first thing to get relegated to the museum of Believe it of Not amazingly stupid ideas that have plagued mankind. A relic of the early dark ages of the scientific era.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 08:25 AM
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Just because we don't know doesn't mean it's God.



But as everyone knows on this website it's Aliens.


edit on 2-1-2014 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by grey580
 



But we do know that science is the greatest challenge to the Darwin/Wallace idea. The idea of intelligent design comes out of informed science not ignorant christianity.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 09:00 AM
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Logarock

Revolution9
Intelligent Design; Does Modern Genetic Research Mean Darwin's THEORY of Evolution Belongs In The Museum???

Yes it is amazing to watch some in modern science try to drag this old baggage around. It should have been the first thing to get relegated to the museum of Believe it of Not amazingly stupid ideas that have plagued mankind. A relic of the early dark ages of the scientific era.


Yet in 2014 it's still the one of the strongest scientific theories we have due to the abundance of ever increasing evidence?

I think you may living in the dark ages (the true Christian enforced dark ages) if you really believe the above post...



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by Prezbo369
 



But why is it the knee jerk reaction to drag Christianly into this? Its a scientific challenge.

Yep the church did have a big part in the dark ages. But now as we see science challenging every thing it is the darkness of the ape man theory that seeks to cast its shadow over scientific enlightenment. The high priest of the ape.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 10:00 AM
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Logarock
reply to [url= by Prezbo369[/url]
 


But why is it the knee jerk reaction to drag Christianly into this? Its a scientific challenge.


Because...


Yep the church did have a big part in the dark ages.



But now as we see science challenging every thing it is the darkness of the ape man theory that seeks to cast its shadow over scientific enlightenment. The high priest of the ape.


I think you mean "I see science challenging everything in my belief system"

And I know this must be hard for you to comprehend but not everyone needs a 'high priest' to accept something, just a lot of good evidence.



edit on 2-1-2014 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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edmc^2
reply to post by Xtrozero
 



Namely:

carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, chlorine, magnesium, potassium, sodium and other elements - 41 elements in all found in the ground.

Then followed by Eve formed from one of Adam's ribs.

Now - why a "rib" and not any other body parts?

Well it's been found that the rib can grow back on it's own.



Did you learn all of your science in church? You certainly didnt learn this in a science class. Before you start spreading false knowledge making you look foolish, perhaps you should try a little fact checking. Or finish high school.








edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Prezbo369
 



Dude try reading or rather comprehending. I am all for science and have not defended the opposite opinion.


What you are doing is trying to defend your lovely evolution ideas from science, so you muddy the waters by dragging in the church. Are the church a bunch of scientists? We are talking science here. Science is challenging the ape man stupidity here not the church.

You must be having a hard time dealing with the fact that science is no longer being friendly to your ape man mythology. Of course the church will cheer them on. You may have to deal with that aspect without letting it cloud your acceptance of modern scientific conclusions.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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Logarock
reply to post by grey580
 


But we do know that science is the greatest challenge to the Darwin/Wallace idea. The idea of intelligent design comes out of informed science not ignorant christianity.



Science investigates, tests and verifies.

Should there be a "creator" then science will find it.

However one has yet to be found.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 

And which scientists are claiming that evoution isn't valid?
Humans did not evolve from apes. We are apes.

Nobody claims that darwin had it all figured out. We have come a long long way from those early teachings. What do you claim as evidence for an intelligent designer? All this stuff that you dont understand?

edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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Woodcarver

edmc^2
reply to post by Xtrozero
 



Namely:

carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, chlorine, magnesium, potassium, sodium and other elements - 41 elements in all found in the ground.

Then followed by Eve formed from one of Adam's ribs.

Now - why a "rib" and not any other body parts?

Well it's been found that the rib can grow back on it's own.



Did you learn all of your science in church? You certainly didnt learn this in a science class. Before you start spreading false knowledge making you look foolish, perhaps you should try a little fact checking. Or finish high school.








edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)


And may I ask where i made an error in my facts oh highly learned one?



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Well. Why do you think that a rib would regenerate?

In the process of cloning, all we would need is one cell from any part of he animal. You could just draw some blood or scrape any part of the skin. (Alhough you would likely get 1 of the trillions of organisms that make up the system that we call he human body).

If some all knowing being went about the process of making a female mate for adam, why would he make any mistakes. Unless this is a story of genetic manipulation, in which trial and error would be expected in the process. Bu no major surgery would be needed. And ribs cerainly dont regenerate.



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