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They are jailing people in Texas over unreturned library books.

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posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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So 18 million on materials that people are too lazy to return. So what is to be done, come up with a way to get lazy people moving or just shutdown the libraries? Aren't people always talking about cutting waste.

A man's excuse was he was in jail for 3 years so he couldn't return it. Guess the GED study didn't work out. Winner winner, chicken dinner.




posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by cathar
 


I did as you asked. I read the source again. There is a serious problem in Texas. I would say that their system is a failed one and should have been shut down. In one state that sent the man to "debtors prison" for a week, how much did that cost? That is three meals a day, toilet paper, and a bed.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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The only reason that poor dummy was jailed was because the cops were already at his place for something unrelated to the library book, but then when they ran his info, found that there was a warrant for the unreturned book, so they were able to bust him on that.

He claims that he couldn't return the book earlier due to extenuating circumstances: He did a three year stretch in the pen for robbery after checking the book out from the library.

It's not just Texas that is doing this, as evinced by the article. It's just that this particular person managed to get a lot of press. Considering that he is 22 years old, and has already done a 3 year prison sentence, I'm guessing that the cops weren't going to let him get away with anything, not even a stolen library book.

I think it's a bit ridiculous, but I guess, in the end, the lesson here is, don't borrow what you don't plan on returning, or definitely make sure it gets returned, even if you have to ask a friend to do it while you sit behind bars.

I have a library book from high school that is 37 years overdue. I am so screwed....



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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Biigs

muse7
Land of the free...my ass


Land of the free yes, not land of the dont return your books and then dont pay the fines.

Sorry if you owe money you pay it, which can be completely avoided by not losing them or whatever in the first place.

Unless you managed to borrow the very first bible or something, how hard is it to pay a fine you deserve?


edit on 28-12-2013 by Biigs because: (no reason given)


While I agree with your point on paying fines...

You can't possibly call the USA the land of the free without explaining yourself.

This is most certainly NOT the "land of the free".

Not by a long shot...



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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whyamIhere

When they run out of real crime. They must justify their jobs.



Yup.

I've been saying this for a while now. Too many police, not enough real crime, so they look for and "find" the pettiest "offenses" in order to stave off boredom, keep themselves busy, and draw in revenue.

There was a guy here in GA who plugged in his electric car at a middle school. They ended up taking a warrant out on him and arresting him for theft. For 5 CENTS worth of electricity. "Stealing is stealing." Granted, that and the argument "if everyone did it..." is valid, but this is just ridiculous. It seems many police have no true capacity for this thing called DISCRETION, which should have been used in this case, IMO. Luckily they ended up dropping the charges, even though the Sgt said he'd absolutely arrest him again for the same thing. LINK

I read about he OP a few days ago. It's a shame.

Encroaching authoritarianism is quickly gaining ground. It's scary.
edit on 28-12-2013 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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in the UK, the definition of theft under the old theft act was an intention to permanently deprive.

So I guess that not intending to return your library book would be theft, but then that mix's up Mens Actus with Mens Rea, and if it was a case of forgetting to return it, a credible defence, then there is no Mens Rea. [surmise as guilty act but not guilty mind]

ignoring the elephant in the room wrt to the 22 year olds track record where does that leave us wrt application of law under the Constitution in the US?

Time for you Colonials to stand up and be counted instead of moaning do something about it all the time, you will end up like us Brits otherwise moaning about everything including the weather...the price of bacon and football/soccer!



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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FissionSurplus
The only reason that poor dummy was jailed ...


Can someone please show me the bit where this guy was jailed for not returning a library book? Can someone please give me evidence of anyone having been jailed in Texas for not having returned a library book?



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:25 AM
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Shuftystick
in the UK, the definition of theft under the old theft act was an intention to permanently deprive.

So I guess that not intending to return your library book would be theft, but then that mix's up Mens Actus with Mens Rea, and if it was a case of forgetting to return it, a credible defence, then there is no Mens Rea. [surmise as guilty act but not guilty mind]

ignoring the elephant in the room wrt to the 22 year olds track record where does that leave us wrt application of law under the Constitution in the US?

Time for you Colonials to stand up and be counted instead of moaning do something about it all the time, you will end up like us Brits otherwise moaning about everything including the weather...the price of bacon and football/soccer!


Pretty sure its about the fines rather than the lost (not stolen) books.

However if the fines wernt punishable, then why not just check out your max number of books every week and go and sell them at the secondhand book store?



edit on 28-12-2013 by Biigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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Are people lax on crime against government institutions funded by the public but not against individuals?



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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Whitewave, great comment.

I think this has been done before,(arresting for failure to return library books.) I remember reading about, I think, a women being arrested, for this.

It's a new low to gain fine monies. Which some , I'm sure, are pushing for prison terms. Here's how it will go.... No pay fine, arrested, release, probation, violation, incarceration. Money for the Nation.


It's a numbers game.
I agree books should be returned, for others to enjoy. But! Really?



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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muse7
Looks like the police state is alive and well in the Lone Star State.

From sending in the swat team, helicopters and entire police departments over a few pot plants to now issuing arrest warrants and jailing people for unreturned library books.

Land of the free...my ass



A Texas man who was arrested for failing to return an overdue library book ignited an online flurry of snarky comments and headlines about the Lone Star State extending its tough-on-crime bravado to books.




A Texas state law took effect in September that defines the failure to return library books as theft. The law, which doesn't trump stricter community ordinances, mandates up to a $100 fine per offense.


Source

Better start checking to see if you have any late library fees...or else your door might be kicked in soon.


Naaaa there could be merit to it. Just think, if there wasn't strong measures for that then every dope feend and bum would just go in, take out books, then bring them to the used book store to pawn off for drug money. SERIOusly. There would be no books left. And they dont' do that right away. it's only if there's tons of abuse then ya it is theft! Especially with all the vagabonds living there, I don't want them ruining the libraries. In a tough economoy that's what people will resort to doing.




posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by lacrimoniousfinale
 


The article says that he was released for time served and that he had the book out for THREE YEARS. His excuse was that he borrowed the book then got busted for robbery and was in prison 3 years. However, when they busted him for the library book, he was no longer in prison and should have started cleaning up his act immediately upon release from prison, including returning waaaaay overdue books. They give you writing material in prison; he could've written a letter explaining the situation.
It definitely IS theft to not return books but throwing people in jail for it is pretty weak tea, imho. Community service is a better option. If you're too busy to return a library book then you're probably too busy to pick up roadside trash for the state. Pick which you'd rather do.
Also, according to the article, he's not the first (even in Texas) to get busted for this. Cops say they have about 3-4 a year. Other states are also doing this.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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This happened to my daughter and yes we live in Texas,but it was 2 library videos that she did not return by mistake we where in the process of moving and did not realize the videos where stuck in with our other videos,well they found her and came to arrest her they threw her up against the cop car like she had done a major crime and bruised her up.i do believe in justice but heck they can't even keep sexual predators off the streets and let them out of jail just so they can do the crime over,I think they need to be more concern with that than people with over due library books and videos,they cost less than a human life,it wasn't like she was trying to steal them,it was a honest mistake



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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Excuse me just a minute here. Library books cost real money, usually to the taxpayers. If someone shoplifted a couple of hundred dollars from a store, would you want them to spend some time in jail? If someone stole your wallet full of your week's earnings, would you want them to spend some time in jail? If someone stole your smart phone, would you want them to spend some time in jail?

You're not going to want to simply tell the thief stealing is a bad idea. You're going to want to get your phone back, slap the thief across the head and tell him not to take your stuff, then throw him in jail for awhile to think about his crimes, right?

Taking half a dozen books from the library and not returning them is easily a couple hundred dollars worth. That person is not just keeping them "overdue" a few days. He's been asked repeatedly to return them and ignored it. He's keeping them forever. He has stolen a couple hundred bucks from you, and here you are professing not to care and calling the place a police state because the library is trying to get its books back?

Every year public libraries lose millions of dollars worth of books that yiou paid for, and you don't care.

What the hell is wrong with you people?



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


Ya but jailing isnt the answer. It is not a punishment fit for the crime. Getting arrested and going through that whole process is gonna be more damaging and possibly cost you more then the fines. The state can garnish wages just as quick as they can arrest you. Seems like a garnish would fit before jail time. But thats my view.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


If your gonna start bringing people to jail for a debt proplemt then go to capital hill. its how our entire goverment works so jail all of them before you start talking about how borrowing something from someone and never giving it back is so wrong and swift justice needs to be brought down on this man for this horrible horrible offense that the US gov practices day in and day out.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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When you borrow something that has a return deadline on it, you need to return it before the due date.

If afterwards you don't return and the lender has a fine policy on the item borrowed, you need to pay the fine.

If you don't do either of these, it is called stealing.

Stealing an item that is not yours requires punishment.

In this case punishment is being arrested for stealing.

I don't have sympathy for ignorant people.


edit on 28-12-2013 by Skywatcher2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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I sure wish the cops would act faster for private entrepreneurs. My parents opened a video store back in the 80's and started renting. The initial investment was rather high some VHS tapes costing 70 or more dollars. People would come in rent a 70 dollar movie and just keep it rather than bring it back. It take 6 months to a year to get the police to take some action if any. Finally after loosing most of the initial investment my parents decided to try different business. Guess it was my parents fault for chasing the american dream ( According to most of you).



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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Sremmos80
reply to post by Biigs
 


Ya but jailing isnt the answer. It is not a punishment fit for the crime. Getting arrested and going through that whole process is gonna be more damaging and possibly cost you more then the fines. The state can garnish wages just as quick as they can arrest you. Seems like a garnish would fit before jail time. But thats my view.


What are you going to do, give them another fine to ignore!? (joke)

Working in a library as a punishment might be better than prison though i FULLY agree. I never said jail i said punishment and you are correct jail is not correct for a somewhat accidental crime, its not like when you borrowed the book you would loose it and be hit with a fine you cant afford 3 years later.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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MOMof3
reply to post by muse7
 


"Debtor's prison" is an ancient concept, that the early colonists hated. Texas has now re-instated it, as states have a right to. I would just leave that state. Their money and jobs are not worth that.


Oh yea, like the property tax. Texans hated it, voted on it and successfully got rid of it in 1982, but then texas leg gives that authority to local as a work around. Now local uses hospitals and ISD to tax your property. Ask a rep to get rid of it, they say texas doesnt have a property tax. Oh, well I guess these liens being mailed to people from out of state lawyers on behalf of isd are fake? Its a state tax, municipalities are in texas, they are not separate.

/Rant

Im starting to agree with you. Im sick of driving down the damn road not knowing if Im going to get stopped and put in jail or not. I grew up here and my only motivation was to stay out of prison. And now they want cameras on the damn roads on top of the patrols. 1 million plus ways to end up in jail, prison or homeless here. Its disgusting.



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