Should people be jailed over simple unpaid fines?

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Depends what the fines for.

Really you should only be jailed if your action are a threat to life/health or property.
So really Assault/Thieft.

Jail for minor crimes does very little good and just creates more criminals and thats a very hard fact.

Not paying your fines for speeding or avoiding taxes could be delt with in other way, like sending balifs round to take what you owe by force. Much cheaper and effective than prison. You owe £500 then take there Flat screen TV. You get the money, you dont have to fork out for prison bills and you embaress the dead beat infront of there neigbours.

In age of private for-profit prison systems you'd best hope you're worth more outside of jail than in. That's not an easy task either since an individual may be worth $50k a year to a corporation as a slave convict.

Just an observation, but... If these folks who have not paid their fines could work off the debt, the communities could basically save money getting these folks to help the community.

There are tons of things to do in a community that would not take work from a paid employee.

Cleaning up derelict properties, fixing up low income areas, helping man the local homeless shelter. If people who owe money have a skill, put it to use.

reply to post by Mommymomo


That's called an indentured servant and is rather frowned upon by most developed nations worth there salt these days considering its only one step away from slavery.

FREEDOM both political and financial should be the cry of the day in my opinion!

reply to post by Mommymomo


An image of 'chain-gangs' cutting the brush on the edge of the highway comes to mind for some reason. I think the problem is people who incur fines and flat-out refuse to pay them. If they had provable financial hardship and presented this info before the deadline they could be granted an extended period of regular installments to settle the debt. Ignore the fine altogether and eventually authorities or their proxies like debt collectors will be seeking them out and the consequences will be necessarily harsh including the likelihood of acquiring a criminal record when it's way simpler to just pay and be done with it. By all means, if you can prove your innocence beyond a reasonable doubt, take it to court.

reply to post by andy06shake


Well if they are incarcerated, they cost us money. Make them do reasonable work for the settlement of the debt. I think that when faced with that prospect, the wallets may very well open.

To incarcerate them is ridiculous. Dock their paycheck. Find a reasonable solution. But don't let it go unpunished or unpaid.

reply to post by Mommymomo


Fair day's pay for a fair day's work is my ethos, incarcerated or otherwise, after all forced labour is exactly that! Even more so if you are actually serving time in the clink for debt!

If a threat of incarceration, forced servitude, criminal record etc is not enough incentive to just simply pay up in full or come to some arrangement to pay off the 'simple fine' in installments then I don't know what is. 'They' don't want to have to go to those extremes because, as stated earlier, it will cost far more in the long run.

It's an incentive and occasionally they'll need to make examples to get the message out to chronic defaulters.

reply to post by crazyewok

Jail for minor crimes does very little good and just creates more criminals and thats a very hard fact.

I agree that it's plain stupid locking career criminals up with those convicted of relatively minor offences; many come out of prison with far more knowledge of criminal activity and contacts within the 'criminal fraternity' than they went in with.

But the threat of jail does serve as a very real deterrent for many people who otherwise could quite easily slide into a criminal lifestyle.

Not paying your fines for speeding or avoiding taxes could be delt with in other way, ....

Not paying fines for traffic offences should result in automatic suspension of their license until the fine is paid in full.
Tax avoidance and evasion is a topic all on its own.

....like sending balifs round to take what you owe by force. Much cheaper and effective than prison. You owe £500 then take there Flat screen TV. You get the money,

I worked as a bailiff for one day - legally bullying single mothers isn't my idea of a job and it's my experience that most bailiffs are failed wannabee's who aren't worth a nut in the 'real world'. They'd rather be criminals but they haven't got the balls and they try to bully and intimidate people whilst hiding behind 'the law' which they abuse. Bailiffs are not allowed to enter any premises without the permission of the householder. The only people who can enter a premises are police when in possession of a legally authorised warrant or if they have reasonable suspicion criminal activity is taking place or HMRC who basically can do what they want.
In the highly unlikely event that bailiffs ever came to my home they would be met with reasoned explanation of their legal limitations and any forced entry would be actively resisted as allowed by law.

you dont have to fork out for prison bills and you embaress the dead beat infront of there neigbours.

Not everyone who has debt or who has run foul of the law and can't afford to pay fines are 'dead beats' - far from it.

Freeborn
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Jail for minor crimes does very little good and just creates more criminals and thats a very hard fact.

I agree that it's plain stupid locking career criminals up with those convicted of relatively minor offences; many come out of prison with far more knowledge of criminal activity and contacts within the 'criminal fraternity' than they went in with.

But the threat of jail does serve as a very real deterrent for many people who otherwise could quite easily slide into a criminal lifestyle.

Not paying your fines for speeding or avoiding taxes could be delt with in other way, ....

Not paying fines for traffic offences should result in automatic suspension of their license until the fine is paid in full

....like sending balifs round to take what you owe by force. Much cheaper and effective than prison. You owe £500 then take there Flat screen TV. You get the money,

I worked as a bailiff for one day - legally bullying single mothers isn't my idea of a job and it's my experience that most bailiffs are failed wannabee's who aren't worth a nut in the 'real world'. They'd rather be criminals but they haven't got the balls and they try to bully and intimidate people whilst hiding behind 'the law' which they abuse. Bailiffs are not allowed to enter any premises without the permission of the householder. The only people who can enter a premises are police when in possession of a legally authorised warrant or if they have reasonable suspicion criminal activity is taking place or HMRC who basically can do what they want.
In the highly unlikely event that bailiffs ever came to my home they would be met with reasoned explanation of their legal limitations and any forced entry would be actively resisted as allowed by law.

you dont have to fork out for prison bills and you embaress the dead beat infront of there neigbours.

Not everyone who has debt or who has run foul of the law and can't afford to pay fines are 'dead beats' - far from it.

I am unsure of the system placing 'speeders' in the same place as convicted felons. A bit extreme in my eyes. I respect the law and do what I am supposed to do. Being a responsible functioning member of society can go very far. You should pay your bills, obey the law, be good to others. The problem lies with those who feel as though they do not have to do so. They feel like someone else will take up the slack. Guess what, the rest of us do not want your debt, your acting out via crime, or just plain irresponsibility. Show us you want to be a better person, you want to be responsible.... They say that God helps those who help themselves.