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New ObamaCare "Fees" coming in 2014

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posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by jrod
 


The problem is that our government would run it.

Name me one government agency that is not bloated, corrupt and so inefficient that it could actually run your health care in a timely and efficient manner. Look at the NHS. It's one of the largest employers in the world with more employees than the US military has soldiers. If a country the size of Britain has that many bureaucrats to run their single payer system, then imagine the mess America's would become. Two thirds of the country would be employed by it with the rest trapped in it.

Oh, and usually there are laws keeping you from having any recourse to any other system if the one your government runs isn't any good or decides that you should just have the pain pill rather than pay for a perfectly viable treatment for you or diagnoses you with an aggressive cancer and tells you that your treatments will just begin in about six months because that's how long the waiting list is ... good luck.

edit on 26-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:20 PM
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healthcare isn't written into the responsibilities of the Legislative or Executive branches. Since many people already have plans they pay for that they are satisfied with, it does not fall under 'general welfare'. It is a point-of-sale service, so is not interstate commerce. It's just like education. Federal government has no authority or jurisdiction. ACA was unconstitutional from the start. Arguing about other plans in certain states or anything that infers federal interference in the healthcare industry is invalid from the start. Whether or not the retarded website works is not a valid argument. It's not a federal issue, bottom line. ACA never, EVER, had anything to do with anybody's wellbeing or anybody's health care. It is an attempt at more usurpation and federal control, a test on public tolerance for tyranny, a federal money-grab and an attempt at financial control of individual assets through excessive taxation, and illegal from the get-go.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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marg6043
reply to post by jrod
 


I agree, I also believe that ACA is bound to fail within the end of the next year, specially when the mid term elections hit the political parties.


The majority of the most damaging parts of the ACA have been delayed until after the midterms.

Most Americans wont know what has hit them until well after they have reelected those who have brought it to them.

Obama doesn't really care about legacy now.

All of the powers he and his kind have ever dreamed of having over this nation and people are cleverly worded and written into the thousands of pages of the ACA LAW.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by ketsuko
 


That is a bogus generalization.

Are you telling me that SS and Medicare are failures? The interstate system? Defense? The space program? Free public education?

Believe it or not the government can actually run things, so long as their are checks and balances, transparency things like that that help fight corruption.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:30 PM
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jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 


That is a bogus generalization.

Are you telling me that SS and Medicare are failures? The interstate system? Defense? The space program? Free public education?

Believe it or not the government can actually run things, so long as their are checks and balances, transparency things like that that help fight corruption.


Yes, SS and Medicare are failures. So is the interstate system, but for reasons other than you may suspect. Space program? Yes because it never served the public in terms of general welfare. It should have been commercial from the start.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by lynxpilot
 


I might quibble some with the space program. It has/had military application, so could be justified under defense spending and quite a few of the technologies we take for granted, especially in computer science, got their start in the space program.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:32 PM
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jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 


That is a bogus generalization.

Are you telling me that SS and Medicare are failures? The interstate system? Defense? The space program? Free public education?

Believe it or not the government can actually run things, so long as their are checks and balances, transparency things like that that help fight corruption.


OK, so where are the checks, balances and transparency for anything having to do with government, specifically Obamacare these days ...



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:36 PM
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ketsuko
reply to post by lynxpilot
 


I might quibble some with the space program. It has/had military application, so could be justified under defense spending and quite a few of the technologies we take for granted, especially in computer science, got their start in the space program.


Let's not forget that NASA's new Muslim outreach directives have been an incredible success as well.




posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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If it was knowledge or technology that wanted to get out, it would have done it under commercial demand. Never, EVER, should have been through taxation and unconstitutional dreamchasing.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by ketsuko
 


How about at the local level? It varies from place to place how about Police and Fire Departments, and among others waste management(though privatized in most areas still collects a 'tax) are run efficiently enough.

I'll write for the nth time on here. The biggest problem with healthcare in America is it puts profits first and healthcare and the welfare of the patient after that. That is a failing model.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 


How about at the local level? It varies from place to place how about Police and Fire Departments, and among others waste management(though privatized in most areas still collects a 'tax) are run efficiently enough.

I'll write for the nth time on here. The biggest problem with healthcare in America is it puts profits first and healthcare and the welfare of the patient after that. That is a failing model.







So who is it that should provide healthcare and under what model? Bear in mind a medical doctor has a 4-year pre-med degree, a 4-year med degree, some sort of internship and 2 - 6 years of residency working for a pittance and paying back huge student loans. Oh, and what model was that?



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by ausername
 


I agree with you also, actually the plans under the Obamacare for the retirees and military is to make the now subsidized health care soo expensive within 5 years if the ACA survive that long so we all retirees and military have no choice but either get into the Medicaid or pay into a private exchange.

But he started already cutting retirees cost of living allowances supposedly 1% or until the retiree reaches age 60 that was one of the hidden "things" in the budget bill, but what the morons forgot, because they do not read the bills they pass is that even the disable veterans will be affected and the DOD just came out and said that the so call 1% is going to be a 20%, in January this part of the bill will be debated.

I always say and will not stop saying that Obama is a Muslim and he doesn't care about the American people neither about the nation and he actually hates the military and what the US stands for when it comes to taken care of its own.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


That will only happen if the ACA starts to fail and become a no profits for the insurance companies, but if ACA gets to stick and make the profits is already been told that could become the biggest entity to take hold of the economy bigger than the banks, after all they will actually have hold of every tax payer in the nation that they could gouge with their insurance premium by law, a dream come true, a steady flow of income for profits.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 


How about at the local level? It varies from place to place how about Police and Fire Departments, and among others waste management(though privatized in most areas still collects a 'tax) are run efficiently enough.

I'll write for the nth time on here. The biggest problem with healthcare in America is it puts profits first and healthcare and the welfare of the patient after that. That is a failing model.







Doing things at a local level is what federalism is all about. Things have a harder time getting as corrupt on the local level. Not to mention, when it all goes horribly bad (see Detroit), the damage is localized and people can vote with their feet and go elsewhere. Federalism also lets people experiment with different ways of doing things to find the way that works best for their locality.

It might have escaped your notice, but Alaska and Texas and California and Maine are all wildly different places with different cultures, populations, and needs. Trying to impose a one-size-fits-all policy on them from the top down doesn't work well. For example, if the government imposes a mandate of 1 billion in spending on all the states on a state-by-state basis, how does Alaska with a population below 1 million, many of them living at subsistence level, come up with that whereas wealthier or more populous states would feel the strain less.

We have lots of this issue in the form of unpaid mandates imposed from the Feds down.

In a federalist system, the states and local areas are supposed to do most of it themselves. The Fed was merely supposed to play referee. We actually fought the Civil War over this, and the statist vision won sadly enough and it's steadily gone downhill since.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 

Believe it or not the government can actually run things, so long as their are checks and balances, transparency things like that that help fight corruption.


A good example of such is the roll out of Obamacare, the splendid web site, the "fact" that if we like our current plan, we can keep it, that it will cost the average family $2500 LESS per year, that many people can't even sign up, etc.

Do you think these are just illusions? Is the fact my premium doubled an illusions? That's great that Medicare "works." THIS isn't Medicare; it's a farce and we are all victims. What planet are you living on?



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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lynxpilot

jrod
reply to post by ketsuko
 


How about at the local level? It varies from place to place how about Police and Fire Departments, and among others waste management(though privatized in most areas still collects a 'tax) are run efficiently enough.

I'll write for the nth time on here. The biggest problem with healthcare in America is it puts profits first and healthcare and the welfare of the patient after that. That is a failing model.



So who is it that should provide healthcare and under what model? Bear in mind a medical doctor has a 4-year pre-med degree, a 4-year med degree, some sort of internship and 2 - 6 years of residency working for a pittance and paying back huge student loans. Oh, and what model was that?


Well we know the answer to that. You make them all servants of the state like our devoted public school teachers. Then you unionize them.

Aren't we all excited about that? Can't wait for the days when our doctors picket in the streets with hand-lettered signs they can't even spell properly, and the head of the doctor's union is caught on tape admitting that he'd care more about patients if they actually contributed to the union dues. And in about 30 or 40 years when the state of our public health care is about as good as our public school system ... most of us will have either found a black market doctor or be sacrificing large chunks of change to patronize the private concierge clinics to make sure we don't die because our public health doc can't tell the difference between the large and small intestines anymore.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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lynxpilot



So who is it that should provide healthcare and under what model? Bear in mind a medical doctor has a 4-year pre-med degree, a 4-year med degree, some sort of internship and 2 - 6 years of residency working for a pittance and paying back huge student loans. Oh, and what model was that?


What is your point? I understand that doctors need to make 6 figures or else they will never pay off their loans. Student loans, mando-health insurance, other insurance we need to have whose rates seem to be continually increase at a much faster rate than the cost of living and the average person's wages seem to make it tough for the common person to ever get ahead.

There is a reason why the US is quickly falling behind the rest of the industrial world.
edit on 26-12-2013 by jrod because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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marg6043
reply to post by ausername
 


I agree with you also, actually the plans under the Obamacare for the retirees and military is to make the now subsidized health care soo expensive within 5 years if the ACA survive that long so we all retirees and military have no choice but either get into the Medicaid or pay into a private exchange.

But he started already cutting retirees cost of living allowances supposedly 1% or until the retiree reaches age 60 that was one of the hidden "things" in the budget bill, but what the morons forgot, because they do not read the bills they pass is that even the disable veterans will be affected and the DOD just came out and said that the so call 1% is going to be a 20%, in January this part of the bill will be debated.

I always say and will not stop saying that Obama is a Muslim and he doesn't care about the American people neither about the nation and he actually hates the military and what the US stands for when it comes to taken care of its own.




The DoD is already considering cutting retirement and healthcare benefits as a result of budget cuts. Not just cutting them but eliminating them eventually.

Military will have to get coverage just like the rest of us. The cuts to military's budget are going to hurt, but as usual it will hurt the wrong people.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by ausername
 


Cut the military healthcare then the US will have a difficult time finding new recruits and keeping the best men and women in.

Healthcare and very affordable healthcare for one's dependents is one of the biggest selling point for the military. Without it, it will not be long before a draft would be necessary to keep a standing Army.


edit on 26-12-2013 by jrod because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 09:20 PM
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We're not supposed to have a 'standing army' for more than 2 years. The whole idea was that the army (infantry/ground troops/grunts) would come from a conglomeration of state militias when necessary and then be able to go back to their day job. In other words, if there's a war, the federal government stands and army, drawing from state militias, and when the war's over, they go back to the farm.



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