Man kills police officer during no knock search warrant, believing it was a home intrusion

reply to post by GoodOlDave


What this proves to me is how little life means to todays PD including there own.

This guy was in a TRAILER where was he going to go ??? bullhorn the guy to come out.

Maybe , just maybe he did not want to die anymore then the cop and this would have been routine.

ZombieJesus

Photo of Adam Sowders

The question was asked how did the guy kill a cop and live to tell the tell.

This is my theory and only my theory.

Seriously look at this guy. He looks exactly like "Farva" on Supper Troopers.......and probably acted like him too.

www.moviefanatic.com...

GoodOlDave

Regardless of how this court case plays out, it can't NOT have an effect on the rest of us because it will declare what powers the police have in violating the fourth amendment. Your thoughs?

edit on 26-12-2013 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)

edit on 26/12/13 by JustMike because: Added correct "Ex" tag coding for quoting external text; amount quoted reduced to comply with ATS guidelines; mod note added with link for OP.

BADGES are REDCOATS!

the BADGE IS THE BIGGEST ENEMY of the former FREE REPUBLIC!!

NOONE CARRIES OUT MORE TYRANNY THAN COPS!!

NOT ALL OTHER CAREERS ----------> COMBINED.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

- This does not say what the police are supposed to be searching for
-Is the allegation that he is a convicted felon, supposition or fact. If he is a convicted felon, does the law prohibit him from owning firearms?
- It is stupidity on the part of the police to burst into someone's home unannounced and not anticipate a response.
Assuming the guy is a convicted felon, and legally not entitled to possess a firearm, should not negate the fact that he was within his right to protect his family from what he legitimately assumed was a home invasion. He responded the way any rational person would, under identical circumstances. Possession of a warrant does not preclude the police from exercising common sense. Had the cop announced beforehand who he was, the legal situation would be quite different. This cop, needs to be on the Darwin prize list. The illegal possession of a firearm is a separate issue. It is a stretch,to believe that the police would assume that , since the guy was a convicted felon, that he could not possibly be in possession of a firearm, and therefore, it was safe to knock the door down. Even If he was precluded from owning a weapon, his wife wasn't.
Wearing a badge does not exempt one from the consequences of stupidity.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


SAYS IT ALL

reply to post by Rychwebo

Wouldn't you agree that assigning a couple of officers to monitor the residence and wait for the person to leave would be a much better option?

Not always…what if he leaves the residence armed? I’d rather catch him in the middle of a dream and have him in custody before he knows what’s going on.

If they leave by car, all you have to do is pull them over and arrest them.

SURE! I bet there’s NO CHANCE he’ll run, right?

A small amount of questioning could determine if anyone else is in the home, and more than likely they could obtain the keys to the home and can walk their way in without force.

That sounds good but it’s not you walking peacefully through that door not knowing the intentions of the man behind it. Talk is cheap…

Not saying you are agreeing to forced entries, but I think the above scenario is quite easy, less stressful, cheaper, and probably wouldn't need a gun.

I look at it this way…if you’re a convicted felon you’d better expect some extra scrutiny. When you’re a convicted felon with a firearm and drugs you’d better expect to get your door kicked in. That’s just common sense really.

seabag
When you’re a convicted felon with a firearm and drugs you’d better expect to get your door kicked in. That’s just common sense really.

Go kicking in doors unannounced and EXPECT to get shot like the pig that you are. Simple common sense really, but I don't expect any jack boot lickers to understand simple common sense either.

A 'no-knock entry' is asking for death. The guy was in his legal rights to shoot the Nazi ....I mean "cop" for entering his home unannounced. It doesn't matter if it was a trailer; A home is a home.

I'll say another thing too; I don't get this "felon with a gun" crap either. That's against the constitution. Once you pay for your crime, your debt is paid in full, and you should be clear and have all your rights back, including being able to own a gun. Every person has a right to defend themselves. This is just another way the feds are trying to unarm people and it ain't right.

Magee wouldn't be in any trouble at all if he were a resident of Indiana. Indiana has the "Castle Doctrine" whereby a person has a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The law in Indiana extends to protection from law enforcement or any public servant from unlawful entry into one's home without clear justification.

“In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant,” reads the legislation.

This law, IMO, should become a federal law to protect citizens from these unlawful raids all across the country, but instead we are slowly becoming a police state. A man's home is his castle and with all the home invasions that happen across the country, who wouldn't fear for their safety when they hear explosives and someone kicking the door down?

Indiana legalizes shooting cops

“There are bad legislators,” the law’s author, State Senator R. Michael Young (R) tells Bloomberg News. “There are bad clergy, bad doctors, bad teachers, and it’s these officers that we’re concerned about that when they act outside their scope and duty that the individual ought to have a right to protect themselves.”

And more from the article

Although critics have been quick to condemn the law for opening the door for assaults on police officers, supporters say that it is necessary to implement the ideals brought by America’s forefathers. Especially, argue some, since the Indiana Supreme Court almost eliminated the Fourth Amendment entirely last year. During the 2011 case of Barnes v. State of Indiana, the court ruled that a man who assaulted an officer dispatched to his house had broken the law before there was “no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers.” In turn, the National Rifle Association lobbied for an amendment to the Castle Doctrine to ensure that residents were protected from officers that abuse the law to grant themselves entry into private space.

Like I said, this should become federal law...maybe the NRA needs to lobby Congress in addition to these state legislatures.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I am sorry but X

camaro68ss
people dieing for a few pot plants, what a sad story

You should come to Mexico.

reply to post by Helious

It works both ways, either law enforcement starts taking accountability seriously or they start understanding that kicking in doors is very likely to get them shot, especially when they decide to not announce who they are when they are doing the kicking.

Tragic thing that happened but not a crime

That's just it, it doesn't work both ways.

I read your comments frequently [we just happen to be interested in same threads it seems], and I almost always agree with your point of view, and I do in this thread too actually. Except in this case the man happened to be a felon who legally would not be permitted to have a gun/use a gun--unless I'm mistaken. If it were legal for him to use/own a firearm then, I would agree with you here.

I do believe it was a crime only because he is a felon.

______________________

How can LE [or law] expect anything else if they are not identifying themselves? The only way this would have turned out differently is if the law were faster than the person in the house..which is what they were expecting at six am.- pretty risky business.

The reason no-knock should be done away with is clear. This or the next case like this could set new precedence, and more than likely it won't be good for the home-owners (or those places & people being searched).

ETA: OK, my bad. I see now that the defendant was legally in his right to own firearm/s. I have to say now that he was defending himself, his family & his home, because he's not a mind reader. Cops should have identified themselves. Makes no sense not to in this case, and almost seems as if LEO were hoping for an opposite scenario.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


That was his right whether you like it or not. Anybody who isn´t invited to my home will be treated like an intruder. They have no #ing right to smash your door. And saying that they were authorized? # NO. # NO. Nobody has the #ing right to come to your house uninvited because they suspect you have a gun. BIG # NO. That is none of their #ing business anyways. You have the right to bear arms to protect yourself. Not because some constitution says so but because everybody on this planet has the right to use defensive force against violence that is being/may be done to them. Will that defensive force be used via gun? Your choice. This is WAAAAY, WAAAAY overstepping their #ing boundaries. That man did not violate anybody´s rights and yet his own are getting violated by the police that claims they have the right because they were authorized with a search warrant. # no. If somebody with a knife comes up to me and says "give me all your belongings or something bad happens to you" and I at that moment have a gun in my bag, he is violating my rights by trying to take something I own and he has no #ing right to do that and at that moment I have the right to use the defensive force via that gun and blow that #er up if I wish to go that far. He was the one who initiated act of violence not me, I was just defending myself. This is what the man did. Sorry but if anybody comes to my house uninvited I can do whatever the # I want with you because you have no #ing right to be here. Wow this got me angry.

signalfire
What kinda idiot does a 'no knock' forced entry into ANYONE's home?

The government kinda idiot. And there's one less today. Good riddance.

This is *not* the America I was born into. It has somehow morphed into moron/criminal central while we wern't looking.

reply to post by eNaR


Kevlar vest for your head?

VictorVonDoom
Two words - jury nullification.

If I were on the jury, I couldn't convict someone for shooting persons unknown barging into their house.

Not only that, i likely would be excused from proceedings for standing up and applauding him.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Interesting read and thanks very much for informing the masses just what is happening in the world right now.

After reading all the posts pro and con I have to say I agree with the posters who mentioned the fact it would have been much easier for everyone if they just staked him out or waited him out.

Makes me think back about 30 years ago or so, we lived in a row of townhouses and our one neighbour had a very abusive and unstable husband.

He got to slapping her around about 4 in the morning, she called 911 and told them she would be hiding out at our home next door.

We never heard her knocking so she went elsewhere.
All we heard after that was someone trying to kick our front door in, we went down stairs to have a looksee and believe me you it was a very scary situation.

I finally opened the front door and there is 4 very angry cops, they shine their lights on myself and the wife and I thought for sure they were going to take me down right there with my bed head hair and housecoat.

This is before crack/meth/ etc......fast forward to now if that happened and I was armed I surely would be very cautious and armed before I opened the door.

In my opinion half the problem is the media hyping up the violence, the other half of the problem is the actual violence be it the bad guys or the cops.

Regards, Iwinder

seabag

I look at it this way…if you’re a convicted felon you’d better expect some extra scrutiny. When you’re a convicted felon with a firearm and drugs you’d better expect to get your door kicked in. That’s just common sense really.

edit on 27-12-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

I see it more like this: when you have served your time, your debt is paid. We should stop harassing you if we are letting you out of prison. Not enough beds? Quit making so many goddamn things illegal and filling them up. I want the rapists in prison, not the stoners.

Regardless of what my criminal background is, I am guilty until proven innocent. The alleged guns and alleged pot in the house....that is just supposition and guesswork. That is, until you kick the door in and intrude into the house to find out.

Seabag, I typically like your posts. Until I read you defending police. The things being defended really are indefensible.

Regardless of what my criminal background is, I am guilty until proven innocent. The alleged guns and alleged pot in the house....that is just supposition and guesswork. That is, until you kick the door in and intrude into the house to find out.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Amen and well said,
Regards, Iwinder

I do not feel one bit sorry for the cop. That's breaking and entering. If you do not announce that you are a police officer anyone I know would shoot you. This should be covered in a jury trial. What would a normal person do? They would shoot you.