Man kills police officer during no knock search warrant, believing it was a home intrusion

SonsOfTheMeek
Here's my question: How did this guy kill one of them and get out of the situation alive? I can't believe the others didn't take him out, y'know, as payback.

That is a very valid question. Most likely the answer is that the subject's pregnant wife was in the vicinity, and the other officers used good judgment in order to not cost anymore innocent people to lose their lives. Criminals are not handicapped by restraint, but Law enforcement are. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation


the other officers used good judgment...? or they were just plain dumb and scared? i mean if they were stupid enough to do a no-knock forced entry and a sargeant was already dead the first few seconds/minutes, the rest probably lost the balls to continue this idiotic ordeal thinking more of them will die.

if ever they used good judgment, they should have done so from the start.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Hopefully, something good will come of this.
As in, every other cop in Texas or otherwise will hear about this, look at some old fuddy-duddy judge and his signed warrant, and say, "Hmm, yknow what? Weed and a gun? Maybe we could just knock. I'd rather not DIE for no reason today. Unless of course YOU wanna go in first...I'm right behind ya, boss."

tomoe723
the other officers used good judgment...? or they were just plain dumb and scared? i mean if they were stupid enough to do a no-knock forced entry and a sargeant was already dead the first few seconds/minutes, the rest probably lost the balls to continue this idiotic ordeal thinking more of them will die.

if ever they used good judgment, they should have done so from the start.

I understand why you feel that way. It's a tragedy either way we choose to view it. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by peter vlar


You're missing the point. His girl was pregnant, somebody, he didn't know kicked in the door to their "house". Didn't announce or state their business or affiliation. You do that in my house and you don't clearly state who you are, you die.

Period.

I need to inject a few facts about Texas law here that hold serious merit.
First off... The guy is a felon... What felony charges does he have and how long ago were they?
See, here in Texas, if your "felony" charges are not gun related or that of family violence, five years from the completion of prison/jail time/probation/parole (five years spent off paper), Texas restores your right to own and possess a firearm AUTOMATICALLY.
Secondly.... possession of under two ounces of grass here in Texas is a misdemeanor charge. On what pretense a judge would find probable cause for a no knock forced entry... the guy must have been ASSUMED to have had a lot more than just a couple plants. However their snitch must have given them a highly exaggerated description of what was really there. Regardless, if the plants in question prove to hold less than the felony weight of useable product, the judge that signed the warrant may be in for a HUUUUGE headache. But that is only in the case if the "felon" has done his dues to have had his gun rights restored. If not, well, here in Texas at least, the courts don't look too kindly to cop killers. I know Burleson, Cleburne, and other redneck towns in the general area, and I'm rather shocked at the intensity of this raid over grass as that isn't nearly as much an issue out here as meth is. Back in 2005 the Mexican Mafia had a major meth production establishment in Johnson county, I'm not certain its changed much since then.

Announced or unannounced, a warrant or no warrant. A mans castle is a mans castle. Enter at your own peril.

sean
Announced or unannounced, a warrant or no warrant. A mans castle is a mans castle. Enter at your own peril.

That's just about the long and short of it. You can make arguments for or against but if you're going to kick in doors, get ready for the boom.

reply to post by Helious


No,I was simply pointing out that under federal law the firearms weren't legal because of his felony. However I somehow neglected to point out the possibility that the requisite period of time had elapsed he could have applied to have his rights reinstated. I don't recall what the process is called though. I think I get it just fine though. As I said on page 2

peter vlar

projectvxn
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

I'll be honest with you here.

I am heavily armed and trained in warfare.

This is one of my biggest fears.

I do not engage in illegal activity of any kind. I am also in the military. But what if they make a mistake? It's not unheard of that police doing no-announcement break-ins occasionally break into the wrong home. If that happened with me or my wife there would be someone getting shot dead and fairly quick. It is something I have thought about many times in recent years reading stories like this.

As a once and former 11B, I can absolutely relate to this. With 3 kids in the house my basic rule is anything that gets past or tries to harm the Akitas is going to be short on time for this world. It's like being in an urban combat environment, you're not checking ID's if someone else fires first, you're checking pulses after the firing subsides.

reply to post by peter vlar
A much mo

This post is not directed at any one person, but for some reason the reply button dissapeared. Strategically their tactics were flawed from the beginning. If you are dealing with a person that is a known felon, drug dealer, and probably armed, you are dealing with a person that knows his days are numbered. To conduct a no knock intrusion is asking for tragedy. This man knew someone would be at his door sooner or later with the intent to do harm. He reacted in kind. A much more "common" sense approach would have been to draw attention, maybe bang on the back door and announce the police presence. That would have sent him in to a scramble but with the house surrounded and officers stationed at every possible egress, would have created a predictable scenario. The suspect would have most likely situated himself to deal with the threat at the back door. As they see his reaction they adjust accordingly and enter through another opening. He turns to react to that and the second wave moves in. There was no need for loss of life here. It was poor tactics, poor judgement, and lack of foresight. Not to mention that all of this was to stop the propagation of a plant, a natural product of the earth. There are many wrongs in this story. It is certain he will get time. Regardless of the laws regarding felons in Texas, he fired upon an officer. The courts will do what they must to re-enforce the idea that we should just lay down in the face of a badge.

OK researched this a bit more...
Magee shot deputy sheriff Sowden with a 308, a one shot kill.
Magee also had a .223 (probably the ever-so-popular AR-15), a shotgun, and a pistol belonging to his mama.
Magee is NOT being charged with felony possession of a firearm, therefore it must be concluded that he HAS had his rights to own firearms at his residence restored.
The sheriffs department even made the statement that all guns found on the premisis were legal.
The statement made by the Texas Ranger pretty much supports Magees statement of how he believed he needed to defend his home from an unwanted intruder.
Deputy sheriff Sowden was the very one who approached the judge and requested specifically for a no knock forced entry on the pretense Magee had STOLEN guns which he was not afraid to use, grass and OTHER DRUGS, as well as a vicious guard dog. But the only thing illegal found was the wee bit of grass. Well from my perspective, what home grown full blood Texan is going to have ANY guns and be afraid to use them? Not me, and certainly not Magee!
I think ol Porky Pig had a previous beef with Henry Magee, fabricated a bigger story that what he may or may not have known about Mr Magee tokin up on some reefer, and thought he would get away with lying and violating the rights of an American citizen.

We need MORE Henry Magees here in America a LOT more than we need those chemical cookin illegal Hispanics who send 75% of their American currency back across the border to support their coc aine crops!
Take a hint, Obama!

Really idiotic police officers.

borracho
If you are dealing with a person that is a known felon, drug dealer, and probably armed, you are dealing with a person that knows his days are numbered. To conduct a no knock intrusion is asking for tragedy. This man knew someone would be at his door sooner or later with the intent to do harm. He reacted in kind.

Nature's Way of Weeding Out Stupid!

In Texas it doesn't matter if he was a bad guy or not, most people sleep with loaded guns next to their beds in that big state!

I say the Darwin Awards goes to the cops for using No-Knock raids in Texas!

I can see no-knock raids working in a state like New Jersey but not in pro-gun states, that's just a plain stupid raid tactic!!!

Borracho

Time? Yeah, he's going to doing time, already doing it in fact. Million dollar bail isn't chump change by no one's standards. Fortunately, Magee has a high profile attorney on his case which will immensely stand to his benefit. Especially considering, as you say, "to show how we need to lay face down in front of their badge".
With his previous felony conviction (regardless what it was) and a precious misdemeanor drug charge, I'm thinking that his case will be transferred to another county (conflicting interests and personal bias there in Burleson--its a VERY small town, impossible to have a fair trial there in this case), and get close too the maximum sentence that can be imposed for having the pot plants.
But as for how much time? I bet dollars to dough nuts he will be out in time to spend Christmas with his new baby.

Imitator

Very true... most of us Texans do sleep with a loaded gun next to the bed. Or under it. Some even keep them IN it! Hell, here in Texas, we got more guns than teeth! (That's just a redneck joke dude...)
But seriously, we do love our guns here. Most true Texans have our kids gun-trained by age 12 or younger. The sooner they understand the power contained in those shells, feels it first hand, the more they respect it. Take your ten year old out deer hunting and let them see first hand how horribly destructive it is to another living creature and I GURANTEE that child will NEVER wild a firearm in an irresponsible manner, never shoot up their high school, never "accidently" shoot their little brother--- unless that child has serious mental issues which a GOOD non-negligent parent would be able to identify long before they have the strength to heft up a rifle on their own.
My neighbor took one of his sons out shooting for the first time not too long ago. Before this, the boy frequently was running around with a toy gun "bang bang!" Out in the front yard. Since he came back from his hunting trip, no more bang bang. He rides his bike. Chases his sister with bugs. But no more bang bang. He learned what a gun really was. Learned what it really did. He RESPECTS the weapon for what it is.

Aazadan
Why not stake out the guys home, arrest him when he steps outside or goes to the store. Get a warrant to search his home at that point, and simply peacefully resolve the situation.

Because then they can't use him to bust his friends. Its an element of the drug war that's being grossly overlooked in this thread. The goal with this guy was probably more about acquiring an asset than making an arrest.

Threaten to throw his pregnant girlfriend in prison before the sun comes up and he'll probably be willing to wear a wire into just about any situation. But trying to get him to cooperate after the whole neighborhood just watched him get questioned or arrested by the police... not likely at all.

I didn't read the whole thread and all of the various opinions by all of the various people here who don't realize they actually do have the right to their opinion, but don't realize they actually don't have the right to express them...It's early and I don't want to have a headache so early in the day...

Really....

The first thing I would consider is whether the guy who smoked the cop was convicted of a VIOLENT crime, I have seen dumpsters that warned it was a felony to dig in them or place refuse in them without the authority to do so...

Ridiculous....

I have been charged with a serious crime before, which I did not commit, was advised by my public pretender (yup, I B a Po Boy) to plea no contest, which I refused to do because I did not commit the crime. The guy in this story that was supposedly a convicted felon probably listened to his court appointed counsel (big mistake made by poor intimidated people) and ended up a felon for no reason other than his own ignorance more than likely, that ignorance being the result of....trust....?.

No Knocks are pure intimidation, I used to be in the military and behavior such as this in that venue was fine, but not out here on the streets as has been occurring more frequently, or is it just that we hear about it online right away?. The policing policies everywhere in this country are becoming too militarized, there has been a war declared on whatever, here at home for the last two or three decades, which in itself should be unlawful, but us ignint 'merican's keep accepting this # en-masse, what a bunch of tards we have here.

I am waiting to hear of someone to be charged with killing a police officer for running over a police dog while it was chasing a suspect, the stupid ass jurors in this country would probably convict (probably already happened without much mentioned). There is a reason they screen jurors, if I were to do this I would charged with jury tampering, and nearly was, and chosen as the alternate because the foreman expressed his concerns with my comments to the rest of the jury during discussions and deliberations, anyway.

I don't trust the system or anyone who has faith in it through my own first hand experience on both sides. If the guy had been warned, it probably would not have gone the way it did.

If you do a job which may be contrary to you wanting to be alive, maybe you should change specialties.

Nothing ever really happens, none of it means anything until people smarten the # up and change things, that's why I bowed out of your (yeah, most of your) entire messed up system long ago.

The guy who killed the cop was probably in the right, the cop thought he was right, but might makes right in a retarded country populated by retards, who don't realize there is a two tier legal system (maybe more tiers still) . And that is why these type things happen, stupid things.

I didn't mean any offense to anyone, I just call it like I see it.

There is a lot more wrong here than the majority of people in this country even realize, or ever will.

He would very likely have been shot if he was breaking into my house, warrant or no warrant.
I was once millimeters away from blowing some guys head off as he was breaking into my house in the middle of the night. The judges who issue these no knock warrants need to be held accountable for their "lack of judgement."

Even a felon has a right to protect himself and his family.

HomerinNC
I'm just waiting for this to happen on a totally innocent person, they do a no knock warrant on the wrong house, the person in the house shoots and kills said cop, what will happen then?

Happened already. Here's the raid-map:

www.cato.org...

Look for the orange balloons - they're the ones where a cop got killed in a raid

The blue balloons are the death of an innocent person

reply to post by stormcell


That map is pure gold. The wrong address and innocent death raids outnumber everything else.

Government and law enforcement are the only professions where if what you're doing isnt working, or actively causing harm, you just keep doing it for 30 more years and then maybe a change will be considered.

Reporters should ask the families of the dead cops "do you feel it was worth it?"

Think of all the prohibition era deaths on both sides. Every one of them was completely pointless. Bodies stack up for politicians whims then one day those same politicians just say "oh, nevermind."

Imagine being the last widow of a pointless war.

I have to think that cops really dont consider what they'll be catching bullets in the face for. That or they're so severely deluded that they honestly believe it's totally reasonable to end up six feet under because some guy in a suit had a bright idea for one more pointless law.