Spirituality Without Morals ?

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posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 04:42 AM
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I have always had a great deal of confusion when it comes to truly being 'God-like' because of the money and corruption involved.
Even as a little kid, it didn't seem right to listen to a sermon all about opening your pockets and digging a little deeper so the church could get their new addition, new carpet, new (whatever) in order to further their good works. I knew there were people in this world going hungry and suffering- what good would new carpet do?
Where did Jesus preach? He told his disciples to go and preach the word- not go and build expensive churches.
And all the different churches and their beliefs in what the bible was saying! Now, that is mind-boggling for a little kid!
As a young adult, I attended many churches of different faith, and the common theme was 'I' am no good; God is a really scary being, and I'll never get to heaven! I also noticed that every church has a pecking order. The great majority of members had unkind, negative things to say about other members. Every faith had at least one sweet old lady that never saw anything bad in anybody.
I didn't find peace- or feel closer to God- in church; much the opposite! It stripped me of self esteem, and made me feel totally unworthy of even existing, so I quit going. I was in my 20's by then, so it isn't like I didn't give it a chance.
I paid close attention to people who seemed to have a loving soul, and learned that they all embrace 'New Age' philosophy in some form or another, so I did my own research and found that those principals resonate best with me. It has brought me internal peace and a close relationship with the Creator, but- like organized religion- has left me disappointed in their lust for money.
Jesus didn't charge for his sermons.
Jesus didn't 'channel' aliens so he could write books, give lectures, and fill his bank account.
And MOST importantly, Jesus NEVER charged to heal the sick! I have a really serious problem with people who claim to be 'spiritual' channeling the Creators 'energy' and charging money for it.
You either do Gods work, and give the gift freely, or you do YOUR OWN work, and pocket the profits. I really don't personally believe you can have it both ways.
The standard argument seems to be "well, everybody needs to make a living, so there is nothing wrong with it, right"?
I know that healing by the 'laying on of hands' works. I have personally seen it work many, many times.
It is a gift; one that was given for us to use- and to charge someone in need for something that was given to us for free- sure seems wrong in my mind.
I'm just afraid the 'metaphysical' community is walking down the same path as organized religion, and will bring upon themselves all the corruption of money-motivated enterprises.
Charging for the gifts our Creator has freely given us TO USE is just plain wrong!
IMHO.

I'm not sure, but maybe this should be in the Rant forum? Could I put it in both?

Happy New Year, my fellow humans.
Miss Nugget




posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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If u think about more like the history of religions, all the brutality and platant evil in ways how they have operated and grown to this day, is big teller how bad it is... SOmetimes i think it looks excatly like " religous are designed to destroy spirituality" but not only one generation but all of it and going on. So its easy too one to denie and other to accept, missing the common ground totally in mean time and that way losing alot of natural growth of spirit as community and individual lvls. Just some toughts.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by romilo
 


Some good food for thought.
The bible says the greatest commandment is to love thy neighbor as thy self. I'd have to say most people don't even like themselves anymore!
The world is in pretty bad shape- we all know this. I think the root cause is greed; the all-mighty dollar, and the power it buys.
If we stopped focusing on the external world, and put the majority of our attention on being the best we can be,; giving the best we have to give, then I think the world would see a big change.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 06:07 AM
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Since you're talking more New Testament and Jesus related stuff ...


Matthew
MATTHEW 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Jesus endorses the mass murder, rape, slavery, torture and incest written about in the Old Testament.

MATTHEW 8:12 Jesus warned of eternal torture in hell, "into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

MATTHEW 10:35-36 Following Jesus meant the possibility of turning a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, etc. "…a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."

MATTHEW 11:21-24 The cities of Korazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum were not impressed with Jesus’ great works, so Jesus said "Woe to you" and cursed them to a fate more unbearable than that of Sodom.

MATTHEW 8:21 A man sought to follow Jesus, but he wanted to bury his recently deceased father before he went. Jesus replied, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Jesus ignored the man’s grief.

Mark
MARK 4:10 In Jesus’ parable of the sower, he told his disciples that he spoke to others in parables so they’d remain confused..."otherwise they might turn and be forgiven."

MARK 7:10 Jesus taught that any child who cursed his parents should be killed according to Old Testament law.

Luke
LUKE 8:32-33 Jesus cast demons out of a naked man and into a large herd of pigs. They fell over a cliff to their death. The town asked Jesus to leave.

LUKE 12:47 Jesus warned that a servant of God who does not heed his master will be "beaten with many blows."

LUKE 19:26 In the parable of the ten minas, the master (God) said of those who chose not to follow him, "...bring them here and kill them in front of me."

John
JOHN 6:53-66 Jesus said to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Despite the metaphorical tone, many disciples were uncomfortable with the idea and chose to walk away.

Acts
ACTS 5:1-9 Ananias lied about the money he’d made on sold property, keeping some for himself. God killed him, then killed his wife for being in on it.

Romans
ROMANS 1:26-27 Paul said that homosexuals deserve death.

Ephesians
EPHESIANS 1:4-5 Despite all of Jesus’ instructions to accept him as savior, Jesus also says God "predestined" those will be saved according to His pleasure.

Hebrews
HEBREWS 12:20 God said that animals must be stoned to death if they lay foot upon Mt. Zion.

1 Peter
1 PETER 1:20 Despite God’s failed experiment in the Garden of Eden, the mass execution of Noah’s flood and the final solution of Christ’s sacrifice, Jesus was predestined to be crucified all along. "He was chosen before the creation of the world,"


There's not too much Love, Tolerance, Acceptance, and Understanding going on there as much as anyone trying to sell this belief wants people to believe.

The above, of course, is only a small fraction of all the hateful, evil, intolerant divinely sanctioned and/or enacted violence spelled out in The Bible.
More can be read about under Biblical Atrocities

Googling "Biblical Atrocities" will bring up similar lists, and most all of them can be verified by following the Name of the Book, Chapter, and Verse Number referenced.

In essence, being "Godly" essentially translates into Destroying everything in your path, laying waste, cursing, enslaving, burning, plaguing, torturing, and leaving a general path of destruction, pain and suffering in one's wake for all and anyone that you might just happen to disagree with for any or even no apparent reason at all.




posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


I find no reason to disagree with you. I have always been one to 'pick and choose' what I want to internalize.
The good in the bible is what I focus on, along with 'The Prophet', by Kahlil Gibran- which I hold in the highest esteem.
There are over 30 books FAR older than the bible which have the story of the great flood, the virgin birth, and many others.
The bible was written after many generations of orally being passed down......so I have used it as a guide in my life to garner positive wisdom, along with anything I can get my hands on that brings a positive influence into my life.
I believe there is a Creator. I believe there is positive and negative energy. The explanation is a mystery shrouded in folklore.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 06:38 AM
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Good post. I believe one does not have to attend church to be spiritual. Regards, J



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 07:47 AM
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AliceBleachWhite
Since you're talking more New Testament and Jesus related stuff ...


Matthew
MATTHEW 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Jesus endorses the mass murder, rape, slavery, torture and incest written about in the Old Testament.

MATTHEW 8:12 Jesus warned of eternal torture in hell, "into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

MATTHEW 10:35-36 Following Jesus meant the possibility of turning a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, etc. "…a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household."

MATTHEW 11:21-24 The cities of Korazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum were not impressed with Jesus’ great works, so Jesus said "Woe to you" and cursed them to a fate more unbearable than that of Sodom.

MATTHEW 8:21 A man sought to follow Jesus, but he wanted to bury his recently deceased father before he went. Jesus replied, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Jesus ignored the man’s grief.

Mark
MARK 4:10 In Jesus’ parable of the sower, he told his disciples that he spoke to others in parables so they’d remain confused..."otherwise they might turn and be forgiven."

MARK 7:10 Jesus taught that any child who cursed his parents should be killed according to Old Testament law.

Luke
LUKE 8:32-33 Jesus cast demons out of a naked man and into a large herd of pigs. They fell over a cliff to their death. The town asked Jesus to leave.

LUKE 12:47 Jesus warned that a servant of God who does not heed his master will be "beaten with many blows."

LUKE 19:26 In the parable of the ten minas, the master (God) said of those who chose not to follow him, "...bring them here and kill them in front of me."

John
JOHN 6:53-66 Jesus said to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Despite the metaphorical tone, many disciples were uncomfortable with the idea and chose to walk away.

Acts
ACTS 5:1-9 Ananias lied about the money he’d made on sold property, keeping some for himself. God killed him, then killed his wife for being in on it.

Romans
ROMANS 1:26-27 Paul said that homosexuals deserve death.

Ephesians
EPHESIANS 1:4-5 Despite all of Jesus’ instructions to accept him as savior, Jesus also says God "predestined" those will be saved according to His pleasure.

Hebrews
HEBREWS 12:20 God said that animals must be stoned to death if they lay foot upon Mt. Zion.

1 Peter
1 PETER 1:20 Despite God’s failed experiment in the Garden of Eden, the mass execution of Noah’s flood and the final solution of Christ’s sacrifice, Jesus was predestined to be crucified all along. "He was chosen before the creation of the world,"


There's not too much Love, Tolerance, Acceptance, and Understanding going on there as much as anyone trying to sell this belief wants people to believe.

The above, of course, is only a small fraction of all the hateful, evil, intolerant divinely sanctioned and/or enacted violence spelled out in The Bible.
More can be read about under Biblical Atrocities

Googling "Biblical Atrocities" will bring up similar lists, and most all of them can be verified by following the Name of the Book, Chapter, and Verse Number referenced.

In essence, being "Godly" essentially translates into Destroying everything in your path, laying waste, cursing, enslaving, burning, plaguing, torturing, and leaving a general path of destruction, pain and suffering in one's wake for all and anyone that you might just happen to disagree with for any or even no apparent reason at all.





Alice, I think you need to read those Bible quotes in the context they were written in. The commentary around the quotes is very blatantly attacking the content out of context.

I appreciate why you find it all so hateful. The whole concept of The Messiah is a blessing and a curse. It's not for the faint hearted. He just came for those with eyes to see and ears to hear His Message; that He has prepared a Kingdom for his own that will last eternity under the Spirit of The Creator and He will be The Creator's Ruler.

Those of us who have heard this Message have a choice whether to go that way or not. I chose to go that way because I want to live forever with The Rider On The White Horse and all those who walk with Him. I agree with Christ that the two most important conditions of our souls is to love The Creator with all our being and love all others as we love ourselves.

I have two neighbours above me who are a gay couple. I don't practise their sexuality, but I don't go judging them because I know I am not without fault before The Creator. I just continue to have good feeling towards them and treat them as I would myself or my family; that's a blanket human policy. I know that I have no earthly business even daring to impose upon my neighbours choices. That is how this follower of Christ interprets Christ.

Yes, you are dealing with YAHWEH of the desert. He deals in life and death (and resurrection, too). You don't question a lion when it kills its prey or even another male lion's cubs and see it as nature at work. Yet the One who created the lion and the very earth the lion walks upon is questioned when His plan involves destruction? Yes, The Creator has done all those things written in the Bible. Yes He did wipe us nearly all out at one time because we were screwing up beyond repair. I would ask you this question...who's fault is it that God has had to deal with us this way; His or ours?

I've tried to relate to The Creator for many years now. I am very scared of Him these days the more I see His power. I respect Him as a child respects His Father. He is the Godfather and he is one scary Dude with a capital D!

The Creator is even greater than all the hottest fires of the Cosmos because The Creator set every star in its place. We are monkey like little creatures who live just about three score and ten years. The Good News is that we have the potential to have an eternal life and evolve beyond what we currently are.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by 02bmw76
 


Thank you!
My most 'spiritual' place is away for city life enjoying nature.
I've always thought sermons would be more well received in such a setting.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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Money and capitalism is a large part of the problem. The need to have money to simply survive on this planet corrupts every human interaction.

Please investigate the Zeitgeist Movement (not the usual debunkers' trying to denounce it without sufficient information); they're trying to show a way forward that will work for everybody, not just the 1%. As our current economic system continues to show its flaws, it will be good for people to realize there are other options now that technology is getting so advanced.

3-D printers alone change everything - no need to 'buy' stuff when you can design and print your own 'wants', especially when everyone's needs are taken care of in accordance with the planet's ability to sustain the resource extraction.

Some people call Zeitgeist 'communism with computers'; it is anything but. Don't let the naysayers drown out this wonderful voice of reason.

As to the bible, it was written by bronze-age people without an understanding of germ theory, what that lightning in the sky was, and why people died for no reason. They knew far less even than the witch-burners of the 1600s. Isn't it way past time to retire that horror of a book?



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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Nah how about sexuality without morals then you got something!



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 01:38 PM
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Helpus2014
Nah how about sexuality without morals then you got something!

Well, I'd rather not 'get' something.....lol



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by signalfire
 

First I've heard of this movement. Will check it out.
Thanks.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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I know that healing by the 'laying on of hands' works. I have personally seen it work many, many times. It is a gift; one that was given for us to use- and to charge someone in need for something that was given to us for free- sure seems wrong in my mind.


It is not that black and white from my point of view. People who give Reiki have expenses if they do it on a regular basis for the room they do it in. I had a teacher that spent 3 day of weekend teaching it and it was not that expensive. And that teacher normally works all day for bad wage taking care of old people and are doing it there for free.

If she wanted to make money then she would not teach Reiki. And all information about meditation and chakras you need exists for free on youtube for the seeker who want's to know from the source.
edit on 26-12-2013 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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I know that healing by the 'laying on of hands' works. I have personally seen it work many, many times. It is a gift; one that was given for us to use- and to charge someone in need for something that was given to us for free- sure seems wrong in my mind. It is not that black and white from my point of view. People who give Reiki have expenses if they do it on a regular basis for the room they do it in. I had a teacher that spent 3 day of weekend teaching it and it was not that expensive. And that teacher normally works all day for bad wage taking care of old people and are doing it there for free. If she wanted to make money then she would not teach Reiki. And all information about meditation and chakras you need exists for free on youtube for the seeker who want's to know from the source. edit on 26-12-2013 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)
reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


My point exactly.
If a person was doing it purely for the 'help others' aspect, I am 100% sure they would be able to find more than adequate space.
I KNOW how much Reiki costs to learn, and it is VERY lucrative to be a 'Reiki' master. It's pretty darn big business, and has made an awfully good living for a lot of people. If your friend isn't reaping enough in the way of financial benefits, perhaps she might consider getting a business manager.
If she is doing it to help humanity, I'm sure she could eliminate the financial aspect.
You serve only one master with Gods' freely given gifts.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by nugget1
 


Maybe it is to some but not to all, and I am talking about the Reiki teachers that split from the old collective since the cost they where charging was to great for people to spread knowledge of Reiki to all.

Come on 300 US dollar (at least I think that is the exchange rate) for Material, Reiki 1 and 2 and gathering after a month, for 20 hours plus food on weekends and she rents a room for 3 people to be in that is equipped. I think you are judging some people who you do not know that would probably do it for free if there is a request for it, either from me or from above.

I just checked and in US there was one person in NYC who charged 325 dollars for Reiki 1 and they don't even get the material included. And she is selling her own book as material. Lol.

Find a teacher that does this as a calling to increase spiritual growth, and are both empath and strong third eye.
edit on 26-12-2013 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


I am very familiar with your point of view, and it still seems very tragic and wrong to me.
If you discovered how to heal people with just a simple touch, what would you do? Open shop and start charging?
What if you could teach others how to heal people with touch...say it took you 20 hours to teach 20 people....would you 'pay it forward' by freely sharing your knowledge, or turn it into a money-maker and charge these people to learn something that cost you nothing?
You DO NOT have to have expenses to share this knowledge is all that I am saying.
If you want to charge people in order to heal them, go to medical school and get a degree.
When you combine money and spiritually, you are guaranteed (and attracting) corruption.





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