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Instead of raising minimum wage, we should lower it! Here's why...

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posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 01:32 AM

reply to post by Rezlooper

I agree with you, we shouldn't increase the minimum wage. Here instead is what I would do.

1.Start a college program to make college free to anyone who keeps and maintains a 3.0 average. We can make a small cut in the defense budget, say retire two nuclear subs,and I imagine it would put several thousand kids through school every year in savings (imagine what it costs to operate and maintain 2 nuclear subs in a year and you can imagine how much college this could pay for).
2. For people going into engineering or science, make small business grants available if they come up with a business plan that employs at least 3 people.
3. For every living wage job created, give them a tax credit. They can only collect on the credit for as long as the position exists. (Then STOP giving tax breaks to the rich) Tax breaks will ONLY be contingent on verifiable job creation. No more free lunch.
4. The companies that survive will pay a small tax into the finance pool for educating more scientists and engineers, who will in turn provide an educated domestic workforce. No more need to write H1B1 visas.

We need to stop shoring up crappy jobs and focus on creating good ones, that will encourage innovation and creation of new technologies.

We can raise the minimum wage, and create 100s of millions of paycheck to paycheck service jobs and have a 3rd world economy, or we can rebuild our economy with jobs that pay middle to upper middle class wages, and make America a industrial powerhouse for the 21st century. I think we should do the latter. It may take a few years to get going, but we could end up with a recovering and stronger economy in 10 years. We are never going to compete with China if our biggest labor force is a bunch of burger flippers.
edit on 26-12-2013 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-12-2013 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)

The problem with this is we just don't have a domestic need for those jobs. How many more architects and engineers does society actually require? Science is more an issue of funding rather than a lack of people to perform the research. We're so productive already that as long as everyone is working 40 hour weeks there simply aren't enough jobs to go around. When 50% of the population can provide for the needs and wants of 100% of the population, what is the other 50% supposed to do?

posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 02:44 AM
Makes me wonder what percentage of people on this site hold down a job. Is Ats for the poor who have lost their job or the rich with too much time on their hands?

posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 04:08 AM


reduce corporate tax rates and abolish VAT for basic goods = more people can be employed, get payed better AND can actually afford the goods they need for their money = create real aggregate demand AND a higher average QoL in the process.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You're joking right?
Most corporations already don't pay any taxes...

Reduction in capital gains is not the same as which you speak. To what you speak is the loopholes in which politicians; left and right; have embedded deep within "law" as the years gone by. I agree with both sides here. extra DIV

posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 04:10 AM

Makes me wonder what percentage of people on this site hold down a job. Is Ats for the poor who have lost their job or the rich with too much time on their hands?

I hold a job....what is your point. There is a middle ground here. A middle ground trying to navigate an structure that rewards (via loopholes) the "wealthy" and continually promotes the "welfare" of the poor. It is a con game via Government construct and is a direct assault on a natural, free market.

posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 05:41 AM
Our wages are low because business and banking runs on a quarterly earnings basis, the less they pay out this quarter, the more they can pocket.

We, down here can't afford to live by the quarter because we have no control over our in-flows and out-flows because businesses and banks raise rates and prices on whim to satisfy shareholders.

If you claim to be a capitalist, you can only blame yourself.

Maybe you should rethink your thinking and come up with something new that actually works.

The stock market is artificially jacked up because businesses banks and corporations are buying back stocks to cause artificial scarcity and raise stock values.

I know where it all began to go wrong, where it went more wrong, and that it will more than likely get more wrong still.

How can we people cause an contrived scarcity from our end ?, maybe we could force improvements in the way things work if we could figure out a way...?...

I know a way, but too many of the people in this country have too low a pain threshold, and don't really work as hard as they think they do.

posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 10:46 AM
reply to post by defcon5

I used to work at the GM proving grounds here in AZ.The union guys working on the development cars were as lazy as they come! Sit and read the paper all day,waiting for parts to be shipped,come in a week later! Most of them were decent workers,but we had a saying there...."It's not a job,it's a country club!". Just to CMA,I was a contract temp worker there,temp meaning 5 years! It was still a country club to me tho,loved working there.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 06:43 PM
reply to post by Aazadan

The idea is to create new jobs through the creation of new companies and technologies. The CURRENT job market cannot employ enough people. If we invest in science and engineering we can start to innovate and create new jobs in the process. We did something like that when the GI bill allowed thousands of veterans to go to college and one of the results was the Apollo program, which employed thousands, and resulted in a lot of technological advances. We can do that again. If we dont, we will be a 3rd world country at best.

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 12:44 AM
reply to post by Rezlooper

This has really been an amazing thread to read through and see all the replies. So many ideas.

My favorite acknowledge that there are deeper problems than the wage issues. Heck, has any one followed Google's investment in robotics? Article:

Why is Google building a robot army?

That could undermine the value of workers even more, in basic economic terms, if we don't stand up and address the deep fundamentals at play here. Its very important for all of us to keep our eyes on the big picture, on the larger issues. Wages are a part, but what's happening here is bigger still.
edit on 29-12-2013 by tridentblue because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 01:22 AM
I've worked with unions and without unions. By far the laziest workers were the non-union workers. They were getting paid minimum wage and could get another minimum wage job tomorrow, and most of them did. Turnover was incredible. They didn't care if they did a crappy job and it showed.

The union workers made good money and knew they had a good job compared to non-union workers, and they worked harder to do a good job and earn their pay. Because most people have pride in themselves and will put in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay.

Not the non-union workers though. They didn't give a crap.

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