Instead of raising minimum wage, we should lower it! Here's why...

The problem I have with any argument on raising, or in this case lowering, the minimum wage is that we continue to argue the wrong problem. The availability of minimum wage jobs is not the problem. The lack of higher earning jobs to step up to is.

Think about it. When I was in high school (ok, 30 years ago - ACK!) my first three jobs were minimum wage - ACE hardware, Burger King, Coffee Beanery. Those jobs taught me responsibility, how to handle a paycheck, how to show up for work on time, how to do a job. Then I stepped up from minimum wage with skills I had learned. Typesetter, accounting tech, bookkeeper.

Other paths were vocational school, *affordable* college (not quite as good an option nowadays), blue collar line work, skilled blue collar. THOSE jobs paid more and allowed for more skills to be built and for more earnings opportunity. Now that we've farmed practically all our manufacturing overseas, there are not enough steps on the opportunity ladder left. There are not enough ways to move up and out of a minimum wage job. And now companies are offshoring any and all white collar jobs they can. *Poof* there go more rungs. (Would someone please bring back the spitting fire smiley?)

I don't know the solution for this. I wish I did. But this is the argument we should be tackling.

reply to post by defcon5

defcon5
To be honest, it [corporate lobbying] needs to be relabeled to exactly what it is, bribery, and made illegal. How do we go about doing that? Get the supreme court ruling overturned for one thing.

Or just drastically cut the fiscal political power that is the incentive/basis for the bribary.
Corruption ends when there is nothing to gain from a bribe.

ColCurious
reply to post by TheRegal

 

It does work on the planet I live on... if it's applied also for honest, small/medium-sized firms, owned and passed down through families, instead of solely for huge corporations that know no responsibilities.

Nonsense. Corporations are set on MAKING MONEY, not MAKING JOBS.

Just on kind of a side note.
I recently read somewhere that if the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since the 70's, it would now be around $40k/year. Funny that the average American now makes about $40k/year. So through money manipulation, and through passing unfair laws, the average American is now making the 1970's equivalent of minimum wage.

For years there was a conspiracy theory that some were out to drop the US standard of living because Americans were tearing through the planets resources at a break-neck pace. I have to wonder now if there is any truth to all that. If we all were making more, we would be consuming more. We'd have a golden age, for a short time, followed by a quick return back to the dark ages after the ride was over and the resources gone.

Hold corporations in check. Hold the Federal Reserve in check. Hold the big money in check and maybe people can create jobs and small businesses. Reinstate monopoly laws!!! The minimum wage will work itself out. I'd quit buying a billion dollar companies staff before paying outrageous prices. Then they will have no recourse but to conform to society as a whole.

There is a balance to everything and I mean everything.

reply to post by defcon5


Rich people do not hoard paper money, that is why the FED policy is creating a speculative bubble, look at the stock exchange it looks like we are in a very great economical situation...

TheRegal

ColCurious
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

OR...
reduce corporate tax rates and abolish VAT for basic goods = more people can be employed, get payed better AND can actually afford the goods they need for their money = create real aggregate demand AND a higher average QoL in the process.

What the hell planet do you live on?

This has been tried over and over again. Giving corporate tax breaks does NOT increase their employment rates. They just shove more money in their own pockets and continue employing the same amount of people.

Take a step into reality.

Your suggestion is about 20 years out of date.

"Trickle down" economics is bullsh%&! at best. It doesn't work.

edit on 25-12-2013 by TheRegal because: (no reason given)

I used to believe in trickle-down and at one time it may have worked, but it doesn't now. You're right, corporate greed trumps all! Billions and billions of dollars are hoarded by these large corporations while hundreds of thousands of Americans wonder where their next meal is coming from. Google is sitting on $44 billion cash on hand, while Exxon sits on $52 billion. Most astounding of all is Apple with $117 billion, GE with $122 billion and Berkshire Hathaway hoarding away $162 billion.

10 companies with the largest piles of cash-on-hand

The total cash that these 10 companies on this list have on hand is $765,000,000,000. If they even used just 1% of that cash to help increase jobs or house the homeless or increase low wages or set up some soup kitchens, I dunno, something...that would be $76 million. Nothing at all to them, but a world of difference to many. Many who buy and use their products and services every day.

Heck, they don't even have to use it to help the poor, simply start spending it back into the economy in constructive ways rather than hoarding it. Yes, trickle-down and give it a chance to work. It won't work when $765 billion sits on these corporations books to please stockholders. Hell, even if they gave a nice Christmas bonus to their stockholders of say 10% of that...despite it going to those same rich I've been talking about, $76 billion-dollar cash infusion in one day would definitely spill over into the economy and help a lot of folks and get a lot of things moving.

reply to post by Panic2k11

I think that they have to print it even if its just in a computer somewhere. Either way though, I don't think it matters, whether digital or physical, the more of it there is, the less its worth. If you mean that the rich keep it tied up in assets, I will agree with that as well, but again, they get profits from those assets, so the pile keeps on growing and we have to keep printing.

reply to post by Rezlooper


I agree with you totally. Lower the minimum wage. Hell, lets lower it to 2 cents an hour.

reply to post by TheRegal


You didn't read my posts right, but I watched the yt-video you linked anyways.

What they call "middle-out"-economics in the video (enabling middleclass businesses to compete with big corporations via equal opportunity) is close to what I was talking about.
You probalby think I was promoting even more tax-breaks for big corporations only (like you do it in the U.S.).

Well, whatever. Rant on... I got Weihnachtspunsch *cheers*!

defcon5
Just on kind of a side note.
I recently read somewhere that if the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since the 70's, it would now be around $40k/year. Funny that the average American now makes about $40k/year. So through money manipulation, and through passing unfair laws, the average American is now making the 1970's equivalent of minimum wage.

For years there was a conspiracy theory that some were out to drop the US standard of living because Americans were tearing through the planets resources at a break-neck pace. I have to wonder now if there is any truth to all that. If we all were making more, we would be consuming more. We'd have a golden age, for a short time, followed by a quick return back to the dark ages after the ride was over and the resources gone.

Very good point. Something I've never considered, but true indeed. The more money we all have, the more we're going to spend and where would much of that spending go...through our resources, carelessly.

With more money...
We'd be less concerned about traveling, thus more gas;
We'd be less concerned about our bills, thus we'd crank up the air conditioning or the heat
We'd be less concerned about waste at the dinner table, thus every meal would be like a buffet

But, I would think there could be other ways to deal with that. The government regulates the hell out of everything anyways.

Those poor bankers and high buisnessmen need a break. They work so hard for the money. we need to be part of the family and chip in. Those buisnesses need our help, so do YOUR part and take less money. The buisnesses need this, hell they employ u. help u out, so why not take 2 cents an hour. You know that they will help us and lower the prices of products. It only makes sense.

reply to post by Rezlooper

I think u are on to something here. We all should pitch in and be a team member and take alot less so that in the end the buisnesses can charge less for products. They are family and part of the team. We trust u, this is great.

cloaked4u
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

I think u are on to something here. We all should pitch in and be a team member and take alot less so that in the end the buisnesses can charge less for products. They are family and part of the team. We trust u, this is great.

They don't have much choice when we stop buying their products. Start shopping local and support your local small businessman...there's a huge start!

reply to post by Rezlooper


I was thinking about this the other day op, and I 100% agree with you.

If employers have to pay the guy at burger king that cooks your fries or the guy at WalMart that stocks the shelves 15$ an hour the prices on everything will go up.

I mean do people really think the employers are going to take that hit? No, they are going to pass it on to consumers.

Once the minimum wage goes up so will prices on everything. So now even the people like me who have jobs that pay decent (not great but decent) wont make a living wage because shi will cost so much.

I think raising the minimum wage will cause more problems because now everyone will be screwed.

Just my 2 cents

defcon5
For years there was a conspiracy theory that some were out to drop the US standard of living because Americans were tearing through the planets resources at a break-neck pace. I have to wonder now if there is any truth to all that. If we all were making more, we would be consuming more. We'd have a golden age, for a short time, followed by a quick return back to the dark ages after the ride was over and the resources gone.

This could be the case. As the population increases the consumption of resources is going to increase anyways. A breaking point is most likely inevitable unless humanity takes a cold hard look in the mirror. Most people will not do this unless they are faced with adversity.

While I like the premise of your thread, this statement -

The Fed prints $35 billion every year that they continue to pump into the market so that the economy doesn’t collapse.

in the OP is TRILLIONS of dollars off, with a "T" due to unlimited QE...

Forget lowering minimum wage, all the corporations would lower all levels of salaries in return it's just a ludicrous idea.

Forget raising it too.

End the Fed, that would be a good start.

reply to post by Mountainmeg


You have a solid point that is a problem but that can't be addressed until you have a firm floor to build on. This is another reason the working class suffers, with no stable dependable floor it becomes extremely difficult to negotiate higher wages for higher skilled jobs. Executive pay has grossly outstripped everyone else while everyone else has been doing more for less over the course of decades. When you tie the minimum wage to the CPI is that when the wage automatically increases every job scaled above it gets an increase to keep wages in scale. So the only real recourse corporations will have is to bring the executive pay scales back into scale with everyone else when operational cuts need to be made. They just wont be able to pass the costs onto the consumer to fix the problem.

you know if u are a TEAM PLAYER and take a loss of wage and trust buisness, u will ultimately win cause buisness wins. WE need to tighten our belts tight and give in by getting less in wages so the buiseness can get big. If we take 2 cents an hour then the buisnesses get big money and then they can charge less for their products. In the end we all win.

defcon5
For years there was a conspiracy theory that some were out to drop the US standard of living because Americans were tearing through the planets resources at a break-neck pace. I have to wonder now if there is any truth to all that. If we all were making more, we would be consuming more. We'd have a golden age, for a short time, followed by a quick return back to the dark ages after the ride was over and the resources gone.

I have thought of that as well, because you control people and what they can consume via monetary policy, but that thought quickly came to a screeching halt.

Our politicians along with the Bankers and Corporations lobbying shipped our technological and industrial know-how to China and have only helped worsen the planets consumption of resources. Imagine a Billion Chinese consuming the planets resources as American's have.

No, sadly it is all about Greed and profits. There is no altruistic agenda here.