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withholding by the Social Security Administration of records of Harry Bounel, whose Social securit

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posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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This outlines requirements for citizenship. Note where it says one or both parents... now



www.uscis.gov...




posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:27 AM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


I'm laughing because you said the republicans made this computer program. So how do you explain the last two elections. Computer glitch? Why doesn't it work if it's rigged?

I actually missed anything remotely funny about it. It's one thing that day that really helped me reach the final point of saying 'to hell with both parties' and walking away from that side of things entirely.



That is a rigged voting machine to poll for Mitt Romney ALMOST without exception if the touch is anywhere remotely near it. The hotspot for response was made so big, as you can see, it literally overlaps Obama's area. I believe I recall it being found that a VERY specific hot spot area DID vote Obama...but it was a tight one compared to a part of the screen for Romney.

Did Republicans corner the market? Oh...absolutely not and it's outright dishonesty for anyone to suggest that, in my opinion. *NO ONE* in a free nation and fair election gets a 99% blow out of vote totals. I don't care who they are or what side they are. People laughed at this crap when it was seen in Soviet client states back in the day and similar results for tyrants like Saddam Hussein had "won" were never taken seriously, anywhere in the world.

Yet..here...we're supposed to believe that no one in some areas...not enough to even register as a statistical blip..voted for Romney? Now THAT is funny... Paul got defrauded the same way, despite there being no real way he'd win by math ANYWAY. They STILL screwed his numbers to add to their own.

They both work tirelessly, Dems and Repubs..to steal the elections. If one side DID NOT at this point, the OTHER side would take every office being worked for in a shut out by fraud. Ironically, it's the fact BOTH sides ARE doing it that maintains SOME form of fair balance.

He who cheats best, wins! ...and I do not even take this to blame individual men who are running. Obama OR Romney. They have entire staffs that run this, create strategy and for "plausible denial" likely insure the candidates NEVER know all the details or broad strokes of what is done to elect them.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


No no. You only have to be a,citizen . Born here or have one parent that is. Look it up for gods sake.
Here
www.uscis.gov...


And here

www.presidentsusa.net...
please highlight the place where it says both
You can't because it doesn't say that.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 



The constitution does not define what a natural
born citizen is. And the Naturalization Act of
1790 says you are wrong.

The Naturalization Act of 1790 stated that "the
children of citizens of the United States that may
be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the
United States, shall be considered as natural
born citizens"


Ouch. That's kind of.. incorrect, too.
You are correct the Constitution does not define the term 'Naturally Born'. It is discussed in many other places, and an educated definition is gleaned. This is the entire basis of the Obama argument, and has been repeated many times by myself and others in the past few pages.

However, about the Naturaluzation Act? You really want to go there?



This law limited
naturalization to immigrants who were "free white
persons" of "good character".


This is a poor choice in an attempt to support any argument about Obama, and 'Naturally Born', or 'Naturalization', because it specifically excludes blacks.

Thank goodness it was superceeded, although it was the only statute to have ever used the term 'Naturally Born'.


It remains an open legal question whether or not the children of undocumented immigrants are legalcitizens [dubious ] ; all persons born in the United States since United States v. Wong Kim Ark have been granted citizenship although the Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on on the matter.


en.m.wikipedia.org...

There still lies the question.

Citizen, Naturalized Citizen, Naturally Born Citizen.

The entire crux of the argument.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


If he was born in some other country he was still eligible because his mother was American . It doesn't have to be both. One is enough.


Just a quick note for reference here. Senator John McCain was subject to a US Senate investigation to determine his legal ability to run for the Presidency. His father was a military man and retired as Flag rank, as I recall. His mom was American as well. Both..American parents. So why the investigation?

McCain was born in the US Controlled Panama Canal Zone. U.S. Soil at that time and beyond question as such. However...questions for reality and questions in a Court of Law sometimes have no relation whatsoever. So, investigated he was. It was short, carried little fanfare but even that was enough to question.

There IS NO absolute definition of Natural Born as stated in the Constitution for requirements to run to the US Presidency. None of this would have happened for debates if there were. That's part of what I think needs to change so badly here.

(Add to that list Hubert Humphrey needing to prove his legal right and even one of our nations only 5 Star Generals ... General Eisenhower ...was required to establish his right to serve by a challenge. It came down to whether he was born in a US State or a US Territory, for the technical issue and it was resolved without much fuss.)


edit on 26-12-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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www.uscis.gov...

This outlines citizenship if you're not born on US soil. Again it does not have to be both as this state's. But since he was born on US soil the point of his parentage is not a matter of concern.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


And he was found eligible wasn't he? Born outside the US.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by itsallgonenow
 


This whole thing is a waste of time and a moot argument.

Obama's father was not a citizen at the time of his birth, nor was he ever a citizen. Obama could have been born in the Lincoln bedroom, and it wouldn't have made one bit of difference. The entire Birth Cert issue has been a red herring from the very start.

Obama qualified to be a CITIZEN at birth! I don't dispute that! He was not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN though. His father was a Kenyan citizen and a subject of the British Crown at the time. If you think that's what a "natural born citizen," is, I just have to disagree.

When someone is "natural born" there can be no question of his allegience and loyalties. If two Mexican immigrants become US citizens, and THEN have a child in the US, that child is a Natural Born citizen of the US and may run for POTUS someday, as both his parents were citizens of the US at the time of his birth. If one or both are NOT citizens at the time of the child's birth in the US, then that child is still a CITIZEN, EQUAL to ALL other citizens IN EVERY WAY, natural born or not, and may run for EVERY political office in the US, except one.

POTUS is the only political office in the UNited States that requires Natural Born Citizenship, and the clause doesn't stop ANYONE of ANY race, creed, religion, whatever, of being POTUS. It just stops, or WAS supposed to, one type of person, and that is a person who could have divided loyalties among nations because ONE of his parents was NOT a citizen of the US, and NEVER was. He has natural "divided loyalties," but no natural born citizenship.

What would be the point of adding the NBC clause to the office of POTUS, since all other offices are ALSO open to all "citizens," natural born or not? The Denyers like to say "if he qualified for citizenship at birth, then he's a natural born citizen."

No. That's what the sealing of Obama's original birth records in Hawaii has been about all this time. He qualified for citizenship, but his mom probably had to fill out a little paperwork first as his citizenship was not Natural (2 different national citizenships from the parents at the time of birth).

I will try to make it simpler with 2 examples:

Example 1: (most of America) Mom is a citizen. Dad is a citizen. Baby is born in the US. What other citizenship would that baby ever claim but the citizenship of his parents? He/She is a Natural born citizen, as there is no other possible claim to make.

Example 2: (Obama) Mom is a citizen. Dad ISN'T a citizen. Baby is born in the US. This baby is different than the previous example, because this baby COULD claim citizenship from either parent's home nation, and either parent's home nation could claim him as a citizen. He is therefore NOT a NATURAL born citizen of the United States, because someone "natually born" a citizen of the US would have no other possible claim of citizenship from any other nation, but for Obama, his father could claim his citizenship from Kenya, therefore he is NOT a NB US citizen.

He IS a citizen of the US with all other equal rights, except to run for ONE political office, because that ONE office requires that he be BORN with NO other POSSIBLE loyalties to any other nation, being a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

But hey, I'm not unrealistic. America believed the lies about his eligibility and was browbeaten into accepting his legitimacy via a coddling, PC media that thought it would be oh so super and tolerant of us to elect a black person as POTUS, regardless of some stupid, outdated NBC clause in the US Constitution. The media knows what's good for us.

He's in until the Apocolypse, or until 2016. He's hurting the extreme left brand like no other POTUS in US history, and is waking people up to the fact that he just might not like us all that much, here in 'Mercka.

Do you know the politics of his father from Kenya? The one he had Dreams from? The commie/marxist drunkard who hated America and Britain? Yep, that's Barack's father, the one he has dreams from.

Also, just a point of interest, notice his book title is "Dreams FROM my Father," not "of" my father. When you get something FROM someone, they pass it onto you. These drunken dreams of the downfall of the West were passed FROM his father, to him, and he's doing his level best to fulfill those dreams from his father.

We elected a guy whos Kenyan citizen father despised America and the West, but yeah, He's NATURAL BORN FOR SURE! He would NEVER have any divided loyalties! HE WAS BORN HERE!!! BIRTHER!

Birthplace, in the minds of the founders, who had just thrown off the British empire, didn't have anything to do with it, outside of qualifying to be a CITIZEN, not POTUS. It was divided loyalties based on parentage that caused the NBC clause to be placed in the office of POTUS and ONLY the office of POTUS. They knew a Senator/Governor, whatever, might have divided loyalties, and might even be able to do some damage, but they knew no such office could take over the entirety of America, and do the entire nation harm, so they specified the NBC clause for the ONLY office they felt necessary. The ONE office that, if abused by someone with divided loyalties, could do grave harm to the entire nation, not just one state or district, or town. I wonder why they felt it so necessary to protect this ONE office from someone who might have even the slightest inkling of divided loyalties? I guess the founders were just a bunch of dummies, way more ignorant than us sages of today.

A citizen (Not a NBC! )with dual citizenship/loyalties can run for ANY office in the land, and win, and govern, LEGALLY! The founders had NO problemo with that! Senator! Representative! Judge! (all the way up to the Supreme Ct!) Governor! Councilman! Mayor! ALL THOSE OFFICES ARE OPEN TO ALL CITIZENS, natural born, or not.

All except the ONE office that require(d)s natural born citizenship. POTUS.

Orly works for Obama, and always has.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by Bassago
 


Having one parent who is American even if you're born in the jungle makes you American . You don't have to have two parents who are American .
I am American if I was pregnant and gave birth while on vacation in Japan my baby is not Japanese.


If you have one parent who is American, another who is Japanese and your child is born in a jungle (and receives a non US birth certificate) they are would have dual citizenship and not be a Natural born citizen. They would also not meet the requirements for BOTH parents being US citizens (as McCain does and Cruz does not) as the law states.

Anyway as I've said, until and unless someone invalidates the BC then it's a moot point. Whether it's fake or not and for the record I haven't said what I think about that issue.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Most votes are made by marking a place on a piece of paper with a pencil then that is fed into a counter. Most are not by pushing a button on a screen although it will probably come to that eventually. One video showing a computer glitch does not a rigged election make. Why didn't Romney win if it was rigged in his favor ?



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Bassago
 


But the law doesn't say both .please show proof of what you are saying. I did. It does not say BOTH.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Bassago
 


Why would my child get a non US birth certificate? I already said I am American.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


The second link is broken.

The Constitution specifically states Naturally Born Citizen. If that were simply a citizen, it would not have been an issue that they would have specified it, and spelled it out. A citizen is not always Naturally Born.

The problem is, they did not define it, and the Supreme Court has specifically not addressed the definition.

You know this, and are willfully tap dancing around the topic. That's okay. Obvious tap dancer is obvious.



According to an April 2000 report by the CRS, most
constitutional scholars interpret the natural born
citizen clause as to include citizens born outside the
United States to parents who are U.S. citizens. This
same CRS report also asserts that citizens born in
the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the
U.S. Virgin Islands, are legally defined as "natural
born" citizens and are, therefore, also eligible to be
elected President.


ParentS, plural. Both parents being citizens. Not one.

en.m.wikipedia.org...
edit on 26-12-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by hellobruce
 


Excellent post. However SSN #'s were geographically based.

www.ssa.gov...



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Gozer
 

Thank you.
Well said, and what I have been saying, as well.

All that matters. Naturally Born, to show homage and faith to the homeland. That's it. Everything else is moot.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Here's a simple question. Where are you allowed to video tape in an election booth? They are not entirely enclosed. You would never get away with it.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


I am not dancing around anything. Its you doing a jig to make it come out in your favor. The link works for me how convenient you say it doesn't work for you. Google requirements for US citizenship. It outlines natural born just fine.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by Bassago
 


Why would my child get a non US birth certificate? I already said I am American.


Ask Ted Cruz, he was born in Canada to a US mother. He received a Canadian BC, is/was a dual citizen and is not a Natural born citizen. Just the way it is.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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www.govtrack.us...


Whereas the Constitution of the
United States requires that, to be
eligible

President,

natural born Citizen of the United
States;

Whereas the term natural born
Citizen, as that term appears in
Article II, Section 1, is not defined
in the Constitution of the United
States;

(snip)

Whereas John Sidney McCain,
III, was born to American citizens
on an American military base in
the Panama Canal Zone in 1936:
Now, therefore, be it...


CitizenS. Plural. The Constitution has been interpreted six ways to Sunday, but one thing most agree upon is that a child gains their citizenship from the father, and even moreso, Naturally Born Citizenship is a HIGHER STANDARD that citizen.

I don't get why this is so complicated for some to comprehend.

The office of the president is held to higher standards than any other office.



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


Google the Constitution and read the clause about requirements for Presidency. It's pretty clear.



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