Bugging off [ shore] - an alternate plan

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posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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there is thread after thread on the merits and demerits of bugging in / out - but looking at my own circumstances [ UK - semi rural ] - I can see multiple situations where both would become untenable quickly

well to put it bluntly – I cannot see a viable bug-out scenario or bug in for that matter [ unless at least 50% of my fellow brits are dead first ]

to put this in perspective - I live in the UK - and have 2 million people living withn 50 miles of my residence

as I can get to a port with all tides access within 35 minuites - and have an opurtinity to invest in a boat - incorporating a bugging offshore plan into this investment is looking attractive

positives :

safety and security in isolation – I would plan to be 40 to 60 miles off shore – with att least 500m of water below my keel – which would make me invisible from shore , but – close enough that a RIB / tender could make landfall if needed

the potential to relocate to another country – admittedly the fuel endurance will limit the options – sailing to new zealand – however attractive it may sound is unlikely


the negatives :

the speed of catastrophe – or can I actually get to the boat ?

no back-up – I would be bereft of all the traditional safety nets a mariner in distress would be able to call upon in the event of disaster [ RNLI , coast guard etc ]

heck – I would not even have the shipping forecast – I know generations of seafares managed without it – but google “ the great storm of 1703 “ a lot of captains far superior to me lost their ships and all their crew

endurance :

I cannot stay out there for ever

a - psychological - important - but without a plan to address B , I believe my mental health will outlast my fuel supply by a large margin

b - fuel - the biggest bug-bear the kind of vessel I am looking at will use upwards of 0.5 tons / day giving a endurance of 30 to 45 days “ normal operations “

the ability to just “ switch off the engines “ and use alternate power [ solar , micro turbine etc ] for essential systems – of course depends on the weather - a station keeping sail is an option


c - stores for £2000 upfront - food and provisions will outlast A+B by a considerable margin [ that's before I start fishing to supplement food stores ]

d - water - the easiest to address - a water maker and backup hand pumped emergency RO set with a crate of service / repair kits . supplemented by rainwater collection = sorted

coming back :

I cannot stay off-shore for ever - though I have latitude as to where I land [ subject to fuel endurance ]

If the event / chain of events that drove me to bug off have been resolved – and cilvilisation [ or what passes for it in the UK ] has been restored

All well and good

But what if it’s a ` brave new world ` ? I would be a “ outsider “ re-appearing after – and having made zero contribution to efforts so far - This is a concern

The end :

PS - I know its both rude and against T&C - to do so - but I am going to ask that replies only address the demerits of bugging off that apply to someone in my position . ie

I have the requisite maritime skills , I have [ potential ] access to a vessel capable of blue water cruising

i realise that millions live hundreds of miles from any coastline or access to a navigable river so bugging off from , say Oklahoma is not viable

this is just an idea at the moment – that’s going to take a lot of money [ most of what I have ] to implement – but will hopefully offer a income stream too –

advice , embellishments and critiques welcome




posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Fuel is an enormous issue, if you are on a vessel reliant on fuel. If you could find a sail boat, i think you would be much better off. The simpler the better. Even if you could find a source of fuel, how long could it possibly last. If # hit the fan so to speak would that fuel be available, if you had a stash on shore how could you prevent it from falling into the hands of others, while still maintaining your off shore bug out.


Fishing is a good idea, but depending on what you are fishing for what do you do if you do not catch any edible or catch anything worth while to eat?

Now fishing may be quite productive but it will only maintain your energy levels so much, and you can not live healthy on what you catch alone. What would you do for anything outside of your catch? You can't really grow much on a vessel of most sizes, and maintain it yourself or with a small crew, again not one that doesn't rely on enormous amounts of fuel anyways.

Are you capable of making necessary repairs to either a motorized vessel or sail boat at sea with the materials you would have on board?

Now water is a huge issue on any salt water vessel, yes water makers are handy but how are you going to power it? This will likely require fuel, or batteries which would have to be charged either by solar array or a motor of it's own. Not to mention many require their own supplies and maintenance that require their own set of skills and valuable space on board your vessel, and when # hits the fan how do you recoup such specialty supplies.

Brilliant idea mate but these are valid thoughts to take into account. Water makers are great for those who are not on sea fairing vessels as well, and those on land would be the first to raid or horde such supplies.

Now, I have not personally heard of many who are going to bug out off coast, but there are likely others who have thought about it and it's very possible others will turn to raiding anyone else they come across. How can you protect your vessel from would be raiders?

Now let's say you do get caught in a large storm, you lose supplies and your vessel is damaged, do you risk coming ashore ? Or what is it you will do in this instance? Are you going to try and stash supplies in coves or islets accessible only by sea? These stashes could become victim to weather as well, even if they are hidden well.

The only major issues that jump out at me are water, and fuel. Water is so absolutely detrimental to your survival at sea and if something were to go wrong with your water maker what would you do?

If you are reliable on a source of fuel you can not carry with your vessel what do you do once it runs out?

I love the idea mate, and I hope I've got your mind going a little more. It's absolutely brilliant but I think it would be even more so challenging than any of the common thoughts. There is an entirely different set of circumstances and challenges and I hate to say it but when it comes to survival the simpler the better. You could spend several days fixing a vessel that's dead in the water only to get it back to a limp. It will be infinitely harder to recoup supplies you likely will only find on land if they are available.

Keep thinking, and best of luck.



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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I'd recommend a sailboat.

There's zero fuel requirement and since you're in the UK, you've got plenty options of other places to go, like France, Spain, Portugal, or anywhere through the straights, or even down Africa.

Whatever is happening to make you want to shove off, there'll be options for landfall.

You could, if you wanted, even point West for the Caribbean, Rio De Janeiro, or someplace where you'll never see Winter again.

With a sail and proper kit like a wind generator, some solar cells, a watermaker to convert ocean water into potable fresh, as well as enough supplies, you can go anywhere.

Just making it into the Mediterranean gives you thousands of options from attaching yourself to the tourism industry in some holiday spot, finding a nice little island like Majorca to call home, or just staying on the move in stopping one place for a week or a month, or however long and moving on to someplace else to move on again.

Whatever the case, you have flexibility and you can carry much more supplies in a sailboat than you can in a backpack, plus, if needed, the ocean can and will provide food if you know how.

There's also hundreds of little islands all over the Aegean Sea, some of them even vacant except for like wild goats and rabbits because they suck for human habitability but suit the goats just fine.
Find a place like that and you've got some Gyro meat.

As I've said elsewhere, a bunker is one thing, but, by definition a bunker separates you from a threat with several feet of concrete, steel, earth, stone, etc.
Several feet of protection is fine and all, but, I'd prefer several hundred miles of open air between myself and any threat.
Several hundred miles of open air, in my opinion, gives far more protection than even a mile deep bunker.
Call it an open-air bunker if you will. Go Sailboat!



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 10:16 PM
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First off, if you decide to go offshore then I would suggest sail over power. With power you are limited to a far as the fuel line stretches, with sail you are unlimited and sailboats handle heavy seas better. You can make NZ from the UK by sail, it's a long haul any way you shake the stick at it but it can be done. During times that would require you to bug out, I personally would avoid the Suez.

Learn celestial navigation, don't count on GPS or anything that requires power or batteries to function and that includes your watch and boats chronometer. Plan wisely and you will be fine.

Thought I would add a little regarding rigs. There are several to choose from and each has its advantages and disadvantages. Schooner, Yawl, Ketch are able to sail closer to the wind than either Square or Lug. When it comes to taking damage and continuing to function, you can't beat Lug. It's not a fast rigging but it is simple and can be repaired in sections.

Another thing to consider is hull material. Steel is strong but corrosion is a major issue same with Aluminum. GRP will last if you take care it and use high grade paint and anti fouling. Wood if maintained will outlast all the others, just use a high grade anti fouling to keep the worms away unless your hull is made of ironwood, they won't touch it neither will most sea critters. There are plenty of wooden ones in excellent condition available so shop around.

Others have already mentioned water makers, just remember K.I.S.S. and carry extra elements.

As for myself, I'm getting a 30 - 33 meter Phinisi and good luck finding me and the family.
edit on 12/24/2013 by pstrron because: add a little
edit on 12/24/2013 by pstrron because: spelling



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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The posters before me laid out most everything important so I would only add that you need to have a "boarder" plan along with "border" plans.
No telling who your boat will bump in to, in a real SHTF worldwide you can count on piracy to make an immediate comeback. Governments naturally will get the largest take.
Be prepared to deal with such people.
A flame thrower would be great against pirates, lol.

Keep us abreast as things develop.
I'm sure you'll come up with more critical areas that need to be studied.



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Biodesiel for fuel is a good choice

Aka used fry oil

They had a tour boat in Hawaii that used it

Easy and cheap to aquire



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


Where do you get used oil at sea, could he process said oil on his vessel while at sea if he could acquire some? I only say this because I imagine the reason he is bugging out he would not want to spend an extended period of time on land where he could be at risk from his disaster.



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 07:27 AM
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oooops
I should have made a clearer and more detailed OP

everyone is correct - I should base my bugging offshore plan on a sutible sailing yacht

but the ` investment opportunity ` I failed to explain anything about requires a 30m + steel hulled motor vessel with accommodation for 10 px , as it will be used for charter - diving , survey , salvage , offshore work / installation / repair , oceanography , training etc etc etc to afford the outlay of buying the hull and making upgrades

we already have 10 weeks work / charter - pretty much garunteed - that's before any attempts to advertise / find / create work

bottom line is - I cannot afford to by a yacht that would have anything like the specification needed to bug offshore - as I would have no way to realise any income from it .

my current dingy - a 2.8m racer has been wetted only twice this year - which has caused ` tension ` as I have spent 275 quid replacing all lines

we are looking into 3 vessels of 32 to 40m - and while outlay is going to be > £200k . I have sane expectations of generating an starting income of 5000 PA [ which will be livable as I already have a modest independent income too ]

so that's that :

the correct advise for all others looking to bug offshore is a sutibly speced sail yacht

but I am stuck trying to force my bugg off plan onto a business venture .

right - now that's out the way :

bio-diesel / fry oil is a good idea - and the marine engines are very tolerant of viscosity - such a vessel as we intend takes 20 tons of fuel [ or moore ] - with multiple tanks

piracy ? - how the hell did I miss piracy of my OP
its in the scribbled jottings I wrote the thread up from

lets just say - the first rule of my counter piracy plan is - dnt discuss the counter piracy plan on the internet

but being low profile and heading for areas outside traditional shipping lanes is the first step



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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I have been considering bugging-out on the water for years, after much consideration I have realized the open sea is not so good a consideration, as there is little food to be had in the ocean compared to closer to land where the continental shelf is (shallower seas) .

I have a canoe, need an outrigger of some sort, have solar panels, a solar charge controller and batteries and several big watertight cases. Bought a bunch of military surplus heavy strapping to weave into a sort of platform (net?)
between the canoe and the outrigger, still need to get a trolling motor and rig some sort of sail.

In shallower water I will use a pole or paddle, and when a storm blows in I will be close enough to shore to pull it all in and secure it to something solid.

It doesn't have to be such a complicated endeavor as many believe it to be, and over-complicating the matter is what keeps many from ever doing it at all.

Pirates?, Seriously?. Try to enjoy yourself instead of worrying so much about stuff you have no control over, no matter how hard you try you won't live forever anyway. I am doing this (maybe) for fun, and maybe for a long time if I ever get the rest of it together.

People were doing silly things like this long before all this gear was ever invented, carving boats out of wood that didn't even have bilge pumps (My Gawd!)....Do it Huck Finn style, while you are still young and strong enough to, instead of just thinking about it and regretting you didn't when you are old and frail.

Just walk (paddle, sail, float) away......(Lord Humongous)



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Where are you looking at running a charter business? Plus getting a hold of a 30+ meter steel hulled charter boat for 200k GBP will be rather tough unless you are looking for a conversion boat. Now I can get a 28 meter Phinisi for 220k euro and a 33 meter 10 pax suitable for and setup to charter on around 599k euro. I'm currently looking at both of them. Had looked at a 37 meter that's being offered for 230K USD but to get her refitted and properly setup would run another 300k euro and 9 months to a year in the yard, not a good option.

Whichever way you decide to go I wish you the best.



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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What you are asking about is not a bug out plan, it is the question of running a charter business. There is a difference. When you talk about realistic bug out yacht , take it from someone who lived that dream in a realistic manner. I lived on a 26 ft. Sailboat with single handed rigging for 5 years. The picture, above is from an article done about me in city talk magazine. Why is it a bare minimum of a 26 ft. Sailboat ? Because a 26 ft. Sailboat is the smallest sailboat to ever successfully circumnavigate the globe. It requires a bare minimum of 6 amp hours solar energy and 10 amp hours of wind energy, as you will always find one or the other, sunlight or wind. The bare minimum you need for water production is two different katadyn reverse osmosis water makers , you need a katadyn 35 power and manual pump for your daily use and katadyn 6 for emergency raft in case you have to leave your main yacht due to it sinking in a storm or something of the nature. You will have enough storage on board for enough food supplies for you and your wife to last for a rather long periods of time ,MRE's can be costly but they will not go bad , you can store a lot of them if you are organized about your storage. You should have plenty of room on top of that for hunting, fishing, and self defense equipment . Yes having an offshore bug out plan is feasible and even livable, I did it for five years with that equipment the biggest concern in your plan being on an Oceanic coast line as opposed to the great lakes or some other inland waterway. Inland waterways lead to oceanic waters so you can always sail your way there, but if you already are on an oceanic waterway the risk is your yacht being destroyed if the catastrophic event is a tsunami is the one thing that will ruin your plan from the beginning because if a tsunami hits and you are not already at least 5 or so miles offshore your bug out boat will be destroyed by the tsunami.



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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Hijinx
reply to post by Another_Nut
 


Where do you get used oil at sea, could he process said oil on his vessel while at sea if he could acquire some? I only say this because I imagine the reason he is bugging out he would not want to spend an extended period of time on land where he could be at risk from his disaster.


Where do u get any fuel at sea?

You don't.

So you will eventually have to put in somewhere

And its a lot easier to produce than anything else.

Nd if its a charter thing u can make deals with fast food companies to dispose of the oil creating a reserve of your own fu el for future use



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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Bugging out to sea is not an option if you can't fix the equipment you are using by yourself, like bugging out in any other vehicle, the issues of fuel and repair parts WILL become an issue eventually. The fact that you probably won't have any income to have your stuff fixed if everything fell down would be an issue too, eventually.

It is best to keep it simple, basically camping with a small boat, a bicycle stowed on board and a small trailer to get away from the water in the event of a major storm or a "tsunami", stay close to the coast where there will be food available on land as well as in the shallows.

It isn't hard to figure out where you are if you have GPS available, and I'm not talking about something as useless as a handheld, you need some back-up of sorts. I have a Hardigg case with a laptop, a tablet, a cell-phone and spare batteries safely stored in a watertight durable case. DeLorme GPS along with Google Earth can give you a really good idea of where you are with actual visualization on Google, the Delorme is a stand alone program which needs no internet access and will give good coordinates that can be used in conjunction with charts, the solar panels back all of this crap up, but you can't rely on anything other than keeping sight of land in the worst case scenario .

I was looking into buying a sailboat in 2008, but the cost of maintenance and required gear by the coast guard and other governing bodies, like cruising permits and so on turned me away from it.

I have only to rig my canoe and outrigger so I can tow it behind my bicycle, and I'm gonna be gone, I know how to fix all of that stuff and repair parts can be found lying around from boats that are wrecked which are everywhere around here (last time my canoe got busted, I used a piece of an old furnace in the brush to fix it, and a few screws), and have plenty of repair parts for the bike already.

I already did something silly a few years ago and rode my bicycle with a trailer, camping gear, and my dog from Florida to Wisconsin straight over the mountains (OUCH), and had the most fun I ever had in my life during the trip, and have been considering doing it by water since many years before that in the way I described here.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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true this is a cool idea but make sure to either make yu ship look un sea worthy or live right next to it because if things get bad enough someone else will try to set sail in it. also as you are leaving what do you do if you are swarmed by a mass of people trying to climb on board. people are like rats they will swarm all over a boat to leave a dangerous situtation look at all the overloaded boats leaving haiti and cuba over the years. also i would suggest a potted citris fruit tree or two and lots of pussers rum to fight of scurvy .



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


I've thought about this as well. The only issue I have is long term sustainability. Yes, you can fish and collect rainwater and pull a couple of hits on the mainland to ensure supplies, but I don't see this being a long haul solution. I'm only a couple of hours away from the U.K. by plane (I'm in Norway). My plan is to bug out to one of the many empty islands Norway has to offer. These range in size from tiny (a couple of hundred feet) to relatively large islands capable of holding a community.

I won't go into details as OpSec is key, or at least I value it, but I welcome you to come on over to Norway and settle on one of these islands. Just make sure it's not mine.



posted on Jan, 2 2014 @ 03:38 AM
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Amphibious Motor coach

just an idea.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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Not really for survival, but a buddy of mine had a good idea for boating. He is part of a club where he pays a monthly fee, and can basically sign out a boat to go on outings. I think it is like $200 a month. Not bad...but too much for how much I'd use it. Had a boat once though, and I can say that $2400 a year is way less than one would spend on the hobby otherwise.





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