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Is the bible the divine word of god?

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posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 02:07 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

He may very well have been the "teacher" the Dead Sea Scrolls speak of. Gnostic Christians believe he was a radical Essene as well.

Maybe he was. I have always had this gut feeling he was not a Jew. Jews I don't believe were even labeled Jews in his day anyway. Abraham may very well have been a Canaanite.

We need to look at history closer for clues.

I am on a quest, although it will take a lot of time to complete. I want to trace whom I feel inhabited Jesus soul throughout his-story. I believe Adam, Hermes, Joshua, Buddha, Enoch, and Melchizedek to name a few were our teachers throughout his-story. Same soul.. different names and titles.

If this is the case then it really doesn't matter what religion Jesus soul attached himself to throughout the time of man. I would say he probably never did attach himself to a "religion".

What did these men have in common ( besides same soul) and could they have all been Jesus soul evolving or had he always been an evolved soul from the very beginning. I would say no as Adam carries the first sin and sin is said to be imperfection of obtaining a goal ( missed mark). This is why jesus is said to carry the burdens of sins.

Melchizedek ( king of Salem, king of peace, king of righteousness) is one of the most interesting incarnations and should be noted, researched and studied to the one who believes there is no way reincarnation of the soul can be.

More history needs to be dug up in order to get a clearer picture. For sure!

As Jesus incarnated to become Christ it is important to learn and remember what he obtained throughout his life times and how he transformed his teachings to man.

When this has been done one can get a cleared picture of the Bible. I have been slowly trying.

Obviously the Bible is going to have thoughts from a civilization that was a lot more primitive than today. Their collective thoughts are outlined for all to see and read and understand. Understanding though is harder because we did not live in that era. They obviously had rivals and bias that are written.

It may very well be dangerous to rely on such an ancient book that has bits and pieces of truth especially relying on it to convey a word for word truth. A literal translation may not have been had therefor should be read that way. I am sure there were words not clear to the English language so had to be substituted.

Job has been said to be written by Melchizedek ( Jesus). If this is the case then Job would be a great book to study. There may very well be altering to the book from translation to translation, so we have to keep that in mind.

IF Jesus was Joshua then his Karma would have been paid in full on the cross. Joshua was said to have mentored Moses. Some say he was psychic, others a prophet.

To me, all this above matters so much when speaking about the authenticity of the Bible.

If all of this is true above then Jesus would have contributed to the Bible as well as written the books of Enoch ( have they been altered), created the Buddhist religion,created the word ( Hermes) and much more.

It makes sense he would begin his journey of life pre-man/spirit ( with a name), first man ( adam= humans--plural) and the ones in between, to become Christ and if scripture is correct when saying he is the last Adam then he my end up being the last man on Earth.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 02:23 PM
Is the bible the divine word of god?

I really don't know. Who could really know? I mean all of the words in the bible? The old and new testaments?

Some bibles have the words of Jesus highlighted in red. Are they really his words? And if so, is Jesus a God?

I don't know. It's faith right?

Now the Ten Commandments that God did up for Moses that for sure is the "words" of God.. if somebody can find those!

I ..I'm thinking..I don't know.
It's all faith ...right??

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 03:40 PM
I think the Dead Sea Scrolls are perhaps the single most significant new information to emerge over the last 1,000 years about the Judea-Christian origins and the New Testament. Yet to have those translations keep almost near secret for 25 years, and to have almost no inclusion of those new insights in mainstream religion is a significant omission, conspiracy or not. I do not present myself as an expert other than as having a strong interest in social sciences and the history and evolution of ideas. I find Joseph Campbell's sociological/anthropological writings on the origins of myths to be closest to the truth (see- Every human culture we know of has demonstrated a need to understand where we came from, what is the purpose of life, what values constitutes a good life, and what happens when we die.

There are similarities in many origin myths among cultures, such as the a flood and reptilian myths.
I believe we forget that there was a worldwide flood at the end of the last ice age, about 8,000 B.C (someone have the exact date?). The ocean was 200 to 300 feet lower then for about 100,000 years (BTW- ice ages are the normal climate for the last million years, NOT the current temperate periods- about 9-10 ice ages with short 10,000 year temperate periods in-between according to science). So our most ancient cities are underwater now and we are just now finding them. When the oceans rose hundreds of feet it was seen as a flood and therefore flood myths are in the "collective unconscious" of many human cultures (See new thread on Shelldrake's universal memory and of course, Carl Young
"coined " that phrase).

We also still have a reptilian portion of the brain (roots of sex and aggression), a mammalian (emotions and social bonding), and a primate region of the brain with expanded memory and reason. Again, a collective unconscious awareness of our reptilian "roots". This is called Triune Brain Theory developed by Paul Maclean at N.I.M.H (see- popularized by Carl Sagan.

So we have floods, dragons, snakes etc., in many religious stories, as part of a universal need to answer the big questions of life, that is what religion does for us. The key is to not get caught-up in the idea that only one culture, one idea, one belief system is correct and all others are wrong. There must be universal tolerance - that is the most dangerous issue in our times.

One last personal experience, my family and I lost my 30 year old son a year ago, he died in his sleepafter a long illness. Up to then I was s spiritual person in the sense that I believed life is about doing good to counter the evil that is man-made. I have been a social worker and teacher most of my life. I respected religion since we need to answer those big questions, but not focused on one religion as being more right than another. I did not believe in an afterlife. That has changed and the reason is profound and provable.

My son was very close to his sister, they traveled the world together volunteering in animal care projects, (my daughter being a devotee of Jane Goodall see- Ok within 24 hours of his death while she talked to a friend on her cell phone, my son's voice interrupted the call, he was able to use the electromagnetic energy of the in-coming cell phone to speak to her. Low and rasphy, but clearly him. The next call she got within an hour she was out and went to voice mail and we got our first real evidence- it was recorded. Over a period of weeks, and even during his funeral, we got more, about 10 in all, all abut 4-5 sentences and the same voice and message content only my son would know, nick names, references to people and places. More than half are not clear enough to understand what is said, 3 are clear enough to hear some sentences, one we have about 2/3 of the whole message, another about 1/3. Others just words here and there. But other experiences as well, even recently, too much to detail her and now. Maybe a thread later.

We have 8 recorded of 12, and they can be emailed. We consulted many experts, had filters used to try to improve them, etc., including the Monroe Institute where Eben Alexander, best selling author of "Proof of Heaven" goes for research and support his near death experience. Now in the end, anyone can say we faked it, so even with hard proof like recordings, there can be reasonable doubt, but we didn't, these are real, and a variety of people heard him directly also while talking with my daughter on the cell phone. But relevant to this thread, he does not speak of God or religion, but says he is "seeing many people", mentions the names of deceased relatives, and he says "its sooo perfect" , (he) "is better", and "will visit you (sister) at the house". So I know there is an afterlife, and I am still reflecting how that affects religious ideas.

EVPs (electronic voice phenomena) are real, and offer new insights into the mysteries that religion addresses. I think the Dead Sea Scrolls tell us something new about the origins of Christianity, and its roots in Summarian religion. And as I have proof, I accept there is an afterlife, and the conscious mind is energy that exists after death retaining our memories. Energy beings interacts with us as we live. Therefore, as the previous poster stated, those exceptional religious profits all may still exist, and maybe are all inter-connected. I don't like the word "soul" but apparently we live in an multi-dimensional universe in which energy beings cross over into our dimension at times, maybe they affect our thoughts (again, some interesting personal stories for another time).

So the idea that Jesus survived death, and affects us directly through the ages, as does Budda, and the others, at least to those who will let them, is very rational now to me. Maybe they are not separate but part of a universal collective consciousness of energy, as Eben Alexander and Robert Monroe both state (see-‎). Just as science seems to indicate we are all genetically related to a few common ancestors, we must all work to feel that connection in this life, as they exist through all history and time.

edit on 28-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 03:50 PM
No, it is not. It is the word of man. A being who commits slaughter of his creations in disappointment shows his imperfection AND FAILURE and should not ever expect perfection. Even in sacrificing your son, you committed hypocrisy because he had at his fingertips the power to change things at will and he did so as he chose. Perfection cannot expect perfection from the imperfect. What I would do to and for my children that you can not do for yourself. How dare you try to be one of us and experience our thoughts and feelings. You CANNOT because you are not one of us.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 04:01 PM
reply to post by StoutBroux

WTF.. are you responding to my story about my son's death above, or the previous post before mine about the bible being all faith?

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 06:23 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

Welcome to ATS... Is this your first day here as a member?

I look forward to more conversations with you. I too have experienced trauma, loss of a son, and more importantly experiences that lead me to believe there is indeed an after life.

It's mystical and I love it.

Studying history, philosophy, religions, and so on, I have come to learn a lot. I have learned we know little about our reality today. We once knew so much more. It's not one persons fault, I don't think. It's a collective issue we have.

For some reason I want to know all I can know about Melchizedek. I think we can find answers taking that route. I will let you know if I come across anything eye brow raising.

I have listened and read about both men you mentioned. NDE's are truly remarkable and they all tell a similar story.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 07:13 PM
Long time reader but new to posting. To your point about "reincarnation", which I had trouble accepting though my wife fully believes it, and she has a lifetime of paranormal experiences. She has heard voices in the middle of the night and using a tape recorder I was able to get EVPS's of a young disembodied girl in our house singing to her years ago, and I have had some similar experiences way in the past, all well before the events with my son which were mostly with my daughter. My wife and I had a lot of trauma in our lives and I think strong emotions are a gateway to having these experiences.

Following our experiences with my son's after death communications, we all went to Monroe Institute last spring for training in meditation, and to be among people who would accept and share our experience. I was surprised to find out that there was a US military connection there, the past Exec. Dir of Monroe was the head of Project Stargate in the 1970's-80's, which has nothing to do with the Stargate movies, but if you saw the movie "The Men Who Stare at Goats" then you know Project Stargate. It was conceived in response to the Soviets investing greatly in psychic research, especially remote viewing. Though the movie was a comedy spoof, the story is real. One of our trainers was a main character in real life of that movie. He gave us a test by putting a lattitude and longitude on a blackboard and we all wrote down what we thought was there, about 20% of the 40 member class got some parts of the remote viewing exercise (RV) correct, myself and a few others got it 100%. Then they offered a class in RV the following week but I couldn't stay. Anyway, he confirmed that decades of government sponsored research has shown everyone has some psychic ability, but it is more extreme in people with high IQs and whom were abused as children, both factors magnify ESP.

Also, Princeton Univ. has a scientific paranormal research lab that has proven telepathy and that the communication from one mind to another uses the earth's electromagnetic field to carry the information. With two subjects that could communicate by telepathy, they could only so it when the field was present and not when it was blocked with shielding. So again, it seems proven that thoughts are carried outside the mind by electromagnetic energy.

Another example that probably many have had of this phenomona is sleep synchronicity. How many couples who sleep side by side for decades have overlapping dreams? My wife awoke me a month ago by screaming that aliens were chasing her, I told her she just woke me up from my dream where I was with aliens too but they were not chasing me. I bet that is fairly common among some long term couples, and would be expected as thoughts are carried by the energy field surrounding us.

This adds another level of understanding of the idea of a collective unconscious contained in energy fields (again as proposed by biologist Ruppert Shelldrake) where human consciousness exists. Add that this energy field is connected to other dimensions where other beings, once alive in our dimension, or maybe other non-human life forms can assess it too, and we are closer to what may be reality.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 07:26 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

You should really do a thread about the last two posts you made. It's very interesting and maybe you can add pictures or videos.

I do believe there are certain avenues we can find out more about the workings of our brains and consciousness. Our reality can be seen, as you stated, closer to being the real deal than anything we have been able to prove before in the past.

In antiquity though, we knew it. It was a knowing.

Back on topic though..

The Bible's characters have a lot of history outside the bible and for anyone serious in learning all they can about the "Word" (before taking it all at face value), I think it's great to think outside the box.. or book.. and see where it takes you.

Im now tryng to read everything I can about Melchizedek. I may even do a thread on it, if I ever find the time to research properly. It takes so much time.

For others they just have faith it's all good and there is no need to seek further than the Bible and or what you are taught in your church.

I wasn't made that way. There is an urge to know more.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 07:51 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

He was responding to the OP not to you. In his rant he is speaking hypothetically to god/jesus

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 07:54 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

How much did you pay for this experience?

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 08:05 PM
reply to post by MamaJ

I am very sorry to hear about your loss and also of retsdeeps1. It is very nice to meet and speak to you both and i hope i havent offended anyone with my posting. I do appreciate your strong beliefs and at the end of the day i do respect and love you all.

I too have experienced the loss of my father when i was 15. My mother subsequently started drinking and went crazy and thought she was seeing and comunicating with him and other deceased people from her past. She was not very mentally stable to begin with.

She thought every shadow was a ghost and every noise was an angel. I take these discussions very seriously and i truly dont wish to offend. But i have seen many others in this state before.

posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 09:10 PM
I was asked about the cost of Monroe, generally they are week long trainings in VA Blue Ridge mountains with all meals included and decent food (not rice, beans and veggie mush). Expect about $200-$250 a day all included, a room, meals and 12 hours a day of programming. Reasonable though still a lot of money in these times when adding transportation, with some scholarships available too. But doubt they could offer all that for much less. What I also like is they sell their tapes (CD's) to enhance effective meditation for reasonable cost, about $15. Its not all about money like some other new age organizations. Good honest people and they really don't tell you what to believe, they offer technology for you to figure it out.

The typical day is 45 minute meditation exercises, 2-3 following meals, with a 1/2 hour group processing discussion after to share IF you want (and its ok to sleep if you want to and blow it off as I did occasionally). When asked questions they like to say "well what do others think? They don't generally push any philosophy though they are focused on out of body experiences that Monroe himself had often and wanted to research. Apparently along the way the government got interested and started to send staff there (in their words) "to develop their intuition". One of our classmates was at the training the week before ours, and she said one of her work group partners admitted he was active CIA. Several trainers were retired Army or intelligence agency staffers. Low key but open about it, not what you would expect.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting that, rather I expected a non-scientific new age type training like others my wife seems to get into with little proof and lots or beliefs. I have a background in science and am a skeptic who is open to a wider investigation of reality like many of you at ATS, but there has to be evidence beyond opinion- so much crap being sold based on no real evidence. Anyway, not pushing Monroe Institute other than I was impressed and that is used by US government, so I give it some respect and credibility.

I may post our recordings of my son at some point, I am not pushing it, but feel we were given a gift and have obligation to share- proof of an afterlife is very reassuring, I know I will be with him again and at age 66, its a positive thought that death is an illusion, and confirms what many who experienced near death events have said. In three different occasions (with two on tape) he says "seeing many people", and mentions his deceased step-brother in one recording who had died at age 20 15 years earlier. My son says "Hanging out with Sean.. so crazy with..." (what he says next is overlaid by the callers voice whose voice breaks in and out of the cell phone message. It was so reassuring to us to hear that Sean still exists too and my son is hanging out with him and seeing many others.

One last thing about Monroe, they use Hemi-Sync sound to improve meditations, I never meditated before and have a hard time clearing the mind but like so many others, need to learn to do that. (see- The idea is to get the brain waves cycles down lower to 4 cycles a second (Delta brain wave frequency). Beta, Alpha, Theta are other common higher frequencies b each associated with a certain level of consciousness). This Delta is the state that Buddist monks attain only after many many years of practice, and the hemi-Sync tapes are supposed to entrain the brain during meditation to that frequency and during sleep in months not years. That is the claim, I am not able to confirm yet. My wife and I sleep with that CD playing all night, and not saying yet its done anything yet after 4 months, as all effects are subjective. But we are having active psychic experiences still and I am managing stress better which was why I wanted training in meditation in the first place. Stress at work was keeping be up often at night, bad insomnia and it was affecting my health, and it has helped that. And the tape was $15 with no ongoing charges for continued use or even for copying it, that's what I liked most about Monroe Institute, its wasn't all about making money, but about teaching meditation techniques, I respect that. Someone may have to help me with imbedding a recording which I can email. Not sure how to get my email address to anyone able to help with that?
edit on 28-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 08:55 AM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

You say that its not about the money, but they charge $250 a day plus they have cd's for sale. Yay! I am very familiar with these types of places. When you ask them questions and they refer you to "what do other people think?" That is just passing the buck. They have learned that if they make no claims then they can offend no one, therefor never disrupting their supply of income. If you make no claims then you can't be cornered into a discussion.

As far as recordings of the deceased, you say " it kinda sounds like he's saying...."

There is a phenomenon called pareidolia. It describes when we see or hear patterns that we recognize as something familiar. When you are in a highly emotional state, such exp the loss of someone close to you, you are more susceptible to exp these types of hallucinations. Your mind finds comfort in them so you accept them as true. White noise or static is full of these patterns and charlatans have used this trick to fool people since the beginning of radios.

Just like when you play led Zeppelin's stairway to heaven backwards, we can all hear him say "praise hail satan" it really does sound like that. But you have to put the fantasy away. When you run the sounds through an analyzer there are keys to determining if the sounds are comng from a voice and not just static. So far none of these recordings holds up to scrutiny.

I know this is prob a touchy subject, and i debated whether i should even reply to these claims. However i am not just refuting your claims to be a jerk. There are lots of people reading these forums and i just want to put out the other viewpoint.

edit on 29-12-2013 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 09:19 AM
reply to post by Woodcarver

I do believe the spirits of our loved ones can manipulate electronics and electricity. They are energy after all so it makes sense. I wont go into my experiences here as this thread doesn't need to drift away from the OP.

My beliefs you stated being so strong are not all that strong at all. I consider it a journey of investigating truth from fiction. It seems as though the more I seek the more I am shown. There is a mystery to be solved within the history of man and the Divine. One can clearly see the collective mind is evolving while the religions are not. Our future will no doubt require Christianity to be "updated" as we grow stronger and stronger toward the ideals Jesus actually set forth. It seems to me the two (Religion/ways of Jesus) clash on so many levels.

The Bible has a lot of great stories of old and the ancients had a collective way of viewing the Divine/God. They attributed human traits for starters and I am not so sure our creator is human-like. It remains to be proven in my mind. When we look at other texts that did not "make it into the Bible" one has to ask why and for the inquisitive mind we can't just take a minister's word for it. Seek the answers and question why were they kept out? Were they too mystical? Would they have allowed another train of thought? One that could not be controlled inside a box?

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 02:33 PM
reply to post by Woodcarver

Not a problem, I have no agenda and I more than understand projection of order into disorder among stimuli by the human mind- (face in the clouds). I have a degree is psych. and a masters in related field, and work in the field. As to Monroe, I think $250 a day for room, meals and programming is not a rip, unless you are camping in tents, but not here to sell that, enough said unless someone wants to know something- thought the military connection was weird and worth mentioning.

As to my son's voice, there are parts that are very clear and parts that we can't understand, we had a dozens people who knew him well listen and give their opinions, as well as objective outside experts so the parts we understand we have 95% certain of words heard. While some government agency may be able break into one side of the transmission of a cell phone call with a fake message, I don't know anyone who can do that, and within about 12 hours from his death which happened halfway across the country, few in our area knew it even happened by then. He mentions a pet name of my daughter "I love you Smeggles" which no one but her knew he had used before, not even me. So I understand skepticism, but we have no doubts based on the evidence. But if some one told me this story, I, like you, wouldn't believe it either, you have to know the people and the circumstances to rule our fraud. But it was real and I know now there is an afterlife, I am not on a campaign to convince anyone, but also, think its worth telling some people about as it was such a special and rare event, and hopefull.

posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 02:37 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

Really glad you've joined ATS. I have a similar stance and background.


posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 02:41 PM
Woodcarver- I am on board with what you say, think for yourself and do not let "experts", ordained, elected, or appointed, or any organizations tell you what to believe - true of politics, religion and most everything. But you have to put forth the effort. Think Jesus would agree.
edit on 29-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 06:46 AM
and to add to the title i just wanna say NO , i don`t think the Bible is divine word of God. I have approached bible from the point of view that its collection of good advice for moral values , how to treat your family and friends and other people etc...
edit on 1thDec4747 by NSM4747 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 04:24 PM
reply to post by NSM4747

Agreed, its one cultures answer to the same issues addressed by every human culture (see earlier citation on Joseph Campbell), - where do we come from? What happens after death, What is the purpose of life? One version of those answers, most cultures evolve those answers from ancient and divine sources to make them as effective and authoritarian as possible. And the Bible's answers to those myths are good ones and we all need those answers.

And I accept that those stories and ideas, varied as they are among cultures, can all be guided by universal, multi-dimensional, collective unconscious intelligences that can be referred to as God, the divine, and their intention and purpose is to help good counter evil. That's my opinion.

edit on 30-12-2013 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 05:07 PM
reply to post by retsdeeps1

I like your opinion as I think it's a logical one.

For me, I like putting the pieces of our history and cultures together and it's a task, I tell ya. I wish we knew more about Atlantis and or the era's before the Biblical characters. The only person I think may have these answers (ones I am looking for) is Manly Hall. His lectures are long and filled with so much information though and it would take me learning so much from ALL of his lectures. Over the past few years there are more and more available though. It seems like more the past two years than before.

Some people do not take to Manly because he was affiliated some how with the Masons, which is another thread in and of itself. The Book of Solomon gives a lot of information regarding the birth of Masons, in my opinion. I can see the how and why but I wish I knew the secrets some of then hold.

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