Is the bible the divine word of god?

Books don't kill people. People kill people. The Bible has and does for certain help some people. In that provision the very grace of God is manifest. Seriously.....There are people who have been helped by reading the Bible..let alone living by the compassionate teachings offered within.

Is the Bible the Divinely inspired word of God? Why yes it is! for those who choose to see it that way as well as those who don't. Proof is in the effects. The Bible is more effective historically than the placebo effect.

It's an effective tool even when misused, especially when misused dare I say.

I'm agnostic, so as far as i'm concerned, the bible is nothing to be taken literally, "it says it's true so it's true" does not work for me.
I tend to view the bible as a first attempt to create order, a beautiful example (for it's time) of "primitive" people trying to create order, a sort of "criminal code" V 0.2 beta.
It could have worked for a time of relative ignorance, but is now outdated considering the advances we have made since then.
As for the idea that it could be divinely inspired...let's face it, people on an individual basis decide that.
My biggest issue with any religion is really simple: you believe it to be true, only because you were born in a place where that religion is mainstream.
Pretty much nobody believes in the bible because of some truth they have uncovered, or some secret that was revealed to them. they just believe in it because "well everyone around here believes it so it must be true!"
and the "i know it in my heart to be true" unfortunately is not a good enough argument, all that tells me is that YOU decided to make it true, nothing more.
So how to tell what religion, if any, is true? you can't. The country you were born in, the family that raised you dictates your believes.

reply to post by IShotMyLastMuse

The country you were born in, the family that raised you dictates your believes.

People can be forced to believe lot of Things if the right laws to support the agenda is enforced.

Religion and modern politics are all about Whos laws we are supposed to fallow. In the western modern world no one fallows the Law of God.

Religion is human knowledge of what is good and evil. According to God in the garden of Eden; we were not supposed to tuch that subject. Because we would start to kill eachother for what we put Our faith in.

To day we still kill eachother for what we put Our faith in. But Our faith is not in religion, it is in politics and the respect for political Law. We got to war because we obay the Law. We work Our buts of becuase we think a piece of paper With some writing on it have some major value.

Religion is a belifs system that demands that you fallow a set of laws. Whos religion do you fallow?

reply to post by wildtimes

But it is well established now that there is NO HELL.

"Established" because of some peoples opinion that there is no hell?

No thanks, I'll go with Jesus' view on hell.
You do know that Jesus spoke of the "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment", right?

I dont believe the Bible is the qword of God.
The discrimination against women for one immediately points it out to be the word of man not God.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You do know that Jesus spoke of the "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment", right?

He did not.

That is mistranslation (deliberate) added later by the church leaders, and once again is an absorption of OLDER myths and fables used only to CONTROL people, and frighten them into submission.

sk0rp, respectfully, is there ANY scholarly research or historian's studies that you take seriously? ANY at all?

Apparently the answer is "no". The only view you hold as valuable seems to be YOUR OWN personal interpretation, which has been proven weak over and over again, and rests on far later "versions" of the Bible than the original intent, while you grasp and cling desperately to men's tweaks to the "stories".

So again, I repeat the question:

IS THERE ANY scholarly and thoroughly referenced information that can knock you off kilter and get you to see past your small view? Or is it that you desperately hope that certain people WILL burn in hell?

What's it truly, to you, if all are part of the Divine Source? Would it be that big of a disappointment? Would it thwart some sinister desires on your part to be delivered unto your "enemies"??

I honestly don't understand the neurotic 'clinging' to things proven to be manufactured, when they're mostly dismal and hopeless and aimed at harming others, not redeeming all.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Because I have not quite given up hope that you can be softened and led out of your ignorance, I offer one more source; Jesus Did Not Teach Hell. The link points to a full chapter of a book, which includes the following chapters as well:

Part II

Complete and Comprehensive answers to Why the Doctrine of Hell is False and Unbiblical

15. The Pagan Doctrine of Hell
16. Hebrew and Greek words mistranslated to mean Hell
17. Translations of Owlam, Aion, and Aionios
18. Jesus Christ did not Teach Hell
19. The Rich Man and Lazarus
20. The Absurdities of the Doctrine of Hell

CHAPTER 18

JESUS CHRIST DID NOT TEACH HELL


Misunderstood and Mistranslated Words of Jesus



Hell believing Christians argue that Jesus Christ Himself preached more about hell than any other person in the Bible. In this chapter, we shall see how, where and why hell believers misunderstand and mistranslate Jesus’s words. However, before we do this, let us first highlight three scriptures spoken by Jesus Christ Himself, which categorically prove without any doubt that He did not believe in hell.

It's all there.

Woodcarver

Who here thinks that every word in the bible is the divinely inspired words of god? Old and new testament.

I think the entirety of world religion and myth, as a single unit, is Divinely inspired. Including of course the Bible.

So is Moby Dick. And Finnegans Wake. And The Hobbit. And Promethea. And Star Wars. And Song of Myself. And 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Yes, the Bible is the word of God,For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Good-bye

Murgatroid

Woodcarver
Who here thinks that every word in the bible is the divinely inspired words of god? Old and new testament.

I had a supernatural encounter in 1979 that left me KNOWING without any question that the Bible was written by GOD.

My experience was enough to convince me 100% but since then, I have read about many others who have had very similar experiences.

IF the Bible were not the "Word of God", WHY does He so often tell people to read it?

A few examples:

"Didn’t you read my book?"

"You don't believe my word the Bible..."

"an audible voice telling him to read a Bible..."

As I stood there in the front of the church weeping and weeping, huge weights were being lifted from my back, my life and my mind. I was literally being cleansed and purified supernaturally by the Lord Jesus Christ as I was repenting of my sins, and I was filled with such tremendous love, joy and peace.

The Lord spoke two things to me there. The first was that every Word in the Bible was true, and the second was that I would never die. I was floating after that for eight years, and the Bible came alive to me and the words leaped off of the pages and literally exploded into my brain. happy707.wordpress.com...

Praying all night in the mosque, he asked God to help him. Suddenly he felt drops of oil falling on him and even smelled its fragrance, he says. He claims another time he heard an audible voice telling him to read a Bible—an abomination to a Muslim. “We would not touch a modern-day Bible,” he says. “This voice immediately put a desire in my heart. It is so vivid, so clear, so overwhelming. Still today, I could not forget that voice.”

Why Revival is Exploding Among Muslims

CJ's Testimony of a Face to Face Encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ

This quote is the key point: "You don't believe my word the Bible."

"It's My responsibility as God to protect My word for you."

Dr. Richard Eby was a professor and obstetrician who fell off a second story balcony in Chicago and hit his head and died instantly and found himself in Paradise. When he came back to a bloodless corpse in the hospital morgue, the athiest Doctor refused to believe he was alive and told him to 'shut up and don't give me any of that #' because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jesus, where am I？I gasped！ Suddenly in a new body in a new place with new life, I was ecstatically joyful: no pain, no tears, no sorrow, no memory.

Instantly, before I could complete my query, that same Voice in a tone of gentle thunder echoed within my head:　"Didn’t you read my book？"

　　He was speaking to me (in fact, in me) with a speed greater than lightning, and in a language of sweet purity unlike anything that an earthly tongue could utter. I gasped again. I had HIS MIND, impossible as it seemed！ Every word clearly meant exactly what was being said. We seemed to have a joint mind: I would ask, and He would answer. (The speed of this communication in such a MIND is hard to describe in human terms. Perchance I can now liken it to a printed page on which the questions being typed have the answers typed upon them, line upon line, at the same time, instantly.)

　　Yeshua began His answer: "If you had read My Book you would have known all the answers."

"In fact, everything that My children need to know about how God thinks and works and judges and rewards, either before or after the Cross, is already in My Book. That is why I commanded mankind to ‘engrave My Words upon their hearts,’ and to pass them along from generation to generation. I wanted everyone to hear and know just Who I AM, the Messiah, their one hope of Salvation, their Most High God."

Dr. Richard Eby dies, visits heaven, and returns with a startling message

edit on 26-12-2013 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..

Alright this is a great example of people listening to the voices in their head. How can these voices be confirmed to be of a divine nature? Im sure you wouldnt want everyone to listen to the voices in their heads right? They cant all be divine, and there is some real danger associated with this line of reasoning. If we accepted everyones story of divine revelation, you would have as many different stories as there were people much like what we deal with today. All these stories cant be true. Your beliefs cant be true if everyone elses are too. Why cant people see that there is no consistant plot to these beliefs? If there were, that would be some kind of evidence in favor of the divine. Without a consistant account of what these revelations are, you are only left with evidence that it is a construct of each persons imagination.

An experience like this has to seem very real to the person. I can understand someone believing that it could be some personal revelation. But you cant possibly expect anyone else to be convinced by your personal voices. Especially when no one agrees.

AmericanJoe
I don't know,
but i don't think so

This is my favorite reply yet. Honesty, if we dont know for sure you should just say "i dont know. "

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

First, I don't think that two people who are reading the text holistically are going to come up with radically different views of God.

They could.
Jim could conclude that hell is literal and that God punishes the wicked with hellfire.
Mike could conclude that hell is metaphorical and that God doesn't punish with hellfire.
So they could end up with 2 radically different views of God.

I think what he's trying to say is, he's doesnt know how anyone could read it the way he does and disagree with him. This is one of the most common and most confusing mentalities i run across.

The "if you dont understand, then your reading it wrong" argument.

How many people have their own way of interpreting this book.
How does one read a book holistically? Its just another way to rationalize what you want the book to say.

Its a book. There is only one way to read it, one word at a time. Whatever it says is what it says. Anything explanation of it is not what it says. People believe that it is real because it says its real. It also says dont ever change a single word of it, but no one pays any attention to that part.

There are no inconsistancies. If you see some, you are wrong.
Life is an interactive movie, or better interactive Dream (which you need yet to discover and to change for better for everyone)




There are lots of inconsistancies actually. Even just comparing the four gospels, the details of who was present at the tomb, they are all four different. How many donkeys was jesus riding into jeruselam? Slavery, homophobia, racism, shovanism, murder, sacrifice, giants, people rising from the dead, healing, staffs into snakes, talking donkeys, parting waters, mana from heaven, feeding thousands with 2 fish and some bread?

Are these the things that should not be taken literally?

reply to post by Woodcarver

i see the bible as a collection of ancient novels that were written by primitive people who genuinly believed what they wrote. There is some historic value to be gleened from these stories, but how do we separate the facts from the opinions?

I see the Bible as a collection of His-Story. His- Story being the main theme. Separating fact from opinions is found within your heart where love and light resides.

Who here thinks that every word in the bible is the divinely inspired words of god? Old and new testament.

I see it as a collection of stories that allows the reader to see through mans word when they seek with an intent of love. They can be learned from. The hate that resides in the Bible is easily seen as man's view at that time in his-story of their maker.

The Old way of thinking is in the Old testament. Jesus brings the New way of thinking in the New testament. Thats what they are though, to me, testaments of man's His-story. I don't think it's caught on in today's society though. It seems far from it ( the new way of thinking).

Do you think god and jesus are one and the same? If so then does jesus condone the horrible murders, rapes, slavery, and sacrifices attributed to god in the old testament?

You are right, there are many ways to interpret the Bible as their are many ways of thinking differently. We are all made different but we are all made to love and seek the light out of the darkness.

I see Jesus as a representative of man. Someone who is like "us" but one who attributed to the works of "our father" and was crowned for the efforts he made. Out of his love for his brethren we have his-story to try and love by/up to.

We are the mind of God. We are one, but many. Seeking to harmonize with one another's energy the beautiful melody of love. We are the loaf of bread. Jesus soul ( many names but one soul) is the heel ( Adam) and the crown ( Jesus) and the pieces in between ( Melchizedek, Hermes, Joseph, Buddha).

The Bible tells ME that his-story is mimicked by our own.

Do you think the hundreds of commandments given to the jewish people in the old testament are still relevant to modern christians?

I think when asked, Jesus gave his response as accurate as one can take it. Love thy God and thy neighbor as your self. This is THE commandment that trumps them all and if we live by this commandment the others do not matter. Loving God and others as your self is the Golden Rule of living life on Earth and makes way for peace on Earth.

If you dont believe that every word in the bible is divine revelation, Then how can you tell which words are divine, and which are to be seen as metaphor, or symbolic?

Praying for clarity. Reading and studying on your own with an open mind. Researching all the while asking to see the light. You may get answers you "need" from reading another book, listening to a song, a friends statement to you.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God". Words express. We express. We were with God in the beginning. This in my opinion is a very powerful statement. I understand it as being any Word --an expression came when God's spirit became "Moved" ( thought--love--giving--action--motion) , a wave that travels to reveal the light. We only see what the Light reveals. This light is for YOU to see and understand and learn from. Words create. Choosing which words to create with is on each and every one of us as we have a responsibility to share the word/words as an expression to our fellow brother/sister. This is why we are to choose wisely. It creates and sets a wave into motion = action. This is also why we are to love our God and neighbor as our self. It sets the stage for peace.

Are you allowed to interpret that for yourself?
So is every interpretation correct? Most would say no. So then does it come down to individual interpretations? Which means that none of it can be trusted because everyone interprets these words differently. So you have to look at it skeptically. Thats when you notice things like donkeys talking, and thousands of dead rising from their graves, people walking on water, changing one substance into another, so on and so on, until you realise that none of it is based in reality and people were just writing down what they thought was the truth.

How do you rationalise all the inconsistancies?

God reaches us all through our own ways of thinking. Do not be concerned with others thinking just like you. You are made to see things differently. What your heart and mind agree on is your truth. Grow in love and forget the hate. In my opinion there are layers in the Bible waiting to be discovered. Water symbolizes spirit in my view. Before man there was not as much matter/mist/clouds and our spirits could move more freely. Our minds were connected with spirit. We were around before man was ever created. Think with your spirit mind when reading the Bible and the words expressed therein become audible in your mind. Try it if you do not believe me.

Here is a great challenge for the spiritually inclined person.

Begin with Genesis. Whatever you do not understand and want to understand better, research it starting from the days of old and what the ancients thought to modern day. It will take you years, but it's worth the communion. The different trains of thoughts will no doubt open your mind to all possibilities and who knows, you may come up with your own. Science has come a long way but honestly the ancients knew what we are now discovering to be "facts". '

I like Manly Halls teachings/philosophies. He's very wise and seems to know a lot about a lot. Research him. His lectures are now free and can be found on YouTube. Im more into astro theology these days. You may want to take a gander at that too.

There are many ways of interpretation but there is a bigger picture that fits really well within your mind and or psyche. Seek and you will find what you are looking for. The bigger picture in my view as of today is much prettier and in harmony within my heart than any teachings I could find in a church or mosque.

Jesus was the coolest teacher of all. He is a great one to follow. Researching him throughout His-Story is an eye opener IF you can allow yourself to believe in the reincarnation of the soul. To me it makes perfect sense and a perfect story... of man... and his crosses he bares daily... and why he does so.

reply to post by MamaJ

Separating fact from opinions is found within your heart where love and light resides.

Hard to see where that kind of methodology could go wrong.

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by wildtimes

 

But it is well established now that there is NO HELL.

"Established" because of some peoples opinion that there is no hell?

No thanks, I'll go with Jesus' view on hell.
You do know that Jesus spoke of the "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment", right?

Not to single you out here Skorpion, this above is highly debatable.

Research where the word "hell" came from, if you haven't done so yet.

What did it mean in it's original format/language and was it a real place in Jesus's time that he used to relate with his audience?

A thirst that is never quenched was also described in Mark. When one eye causes you to stumble he says it best to cut it out then to have two in hell. It is a way of describing being separated from God.

I don't believe in an eternal "hell" as Jesus ministry conflicts with the very idea and his death does as well.

A state of mind ( heaven or hell) can be had when we take our last breath. The mind is the builder and so if one has lived a life separate from God-- loving thy neighbor as your self-- then chances are you will find yourself in a "hell" but not one that you can't get out of.

"My God" is too loving and forgiving for that.

It's also my belief Jesus soul in his-story found himself in "hell", but now look at him. His energy was transformed to the highest vibration one could have. Nothing or anyone is ever eternally lost.

The OP's title question will only depend on an individual's opinion and no side will convince the other that they are right or wrong.

So this thread is an exercise in futility.

reply to post by bastion

When the bible says god sent down two bears to murder a load of kids because they broke his golden rule on respecting your elders, it requires an awful lot of mental gymnastics to twist that into meaning it had nothing to do with god.

What are you talking about?

I gave you a reasonable explanation in a couple of sentences, no "mental gymnastics" required.

The problem with the stupid atheist argument that "God is evil" is that it requires a literal reading of the Bible, even though the atheist making the argument rejects the literal foundations of the text. Do you believe that God made the world in six literal days? If not, you reject a literal reading of the text and any argument that requires it, such as the "God is an evil murderer", is automatically invalidated.

reply to post by adjensen


If god literally killed those first born babies in Egypt and literally killed all those people in Sodom and Gomorrah he is literally a murderer. If god literally created a place like hell where he KNEW most people would either suffer forever or are forever separated from him, he is literally evil an does not love his creation equally.

If he allows only a few of his creation to inherit eternal happiness and bliss while letting the vast majority go to hell, he chooses favorites and loves some more than most. Isn't he supposed to love everyone equally? If he lets most go to hell, he literally doesn't love them as much as the ones he saves.

Chamberf=6
The OP's title question will only depend on an individual's opinion and no side will convince the other that they are right or wrong.

So this thread is an exercise in futility.

Hi chamber. I understand what you mean but i think as long as there are people willing to discuss their different opinions, then it is not futile. We are not name calling or threatening eachother and as long as these convo's can remain civil then they should be alowed.

Even though most people will not change their mind, imagine all the people who are reading these forums and rolling these ideas around in their heads. These talks are for everyone, even those who may be on the fence or have recently begun questioning their own beliefs.

I do not pretend i will change minds that are already made up. But for those who have questions, I want to make sure the right arguments are put forth. You never know who might be reading.