Meet the New Messiah, Son of Jesus

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

If his biological offspring is God's son he would be David's Lord, that's how.
A heavenly king outranks an earthly king it really is that simple.

King David, being the Messiah (Messiah means merely 'king of Israel') said himself in psalms 82:

Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy . 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand ; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course . 6 I have said , Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise , O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

The Pharicees &al claimed Jesus was a Samaritan (John 8:48), i.e. a foreigner, NOT a Jew, and hence their denying him being a son of God, understood: Not a Jew and not a heir to Abraham's. Further reading of the same passage, you also see other things they said to discredit him, that he's a drunk and posessed by evil spirits.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Abraham was not a Jew until AFTER GOD made a covenant promise with him, the sign being circumcision.
David was a man after GOD's own heart, and yet his great grandmother is Ruth the Moabitess. So he wasn't completely 'Jewish' either.

John 1:11-12
"He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of GOD, to those who believe in His name."

In Christ are Godly offspring. Sons and daughters of the most High GOD because Jesus chose to become the Son of Man, the Second Adam. I think there's a clue in the 'as many as RECEIVED HIM'. That's overcoming right there. Overcoming the mindset, lies, games, structures and illusions of this world to trust Christ as Lord and Saviour. Satan tempted Jesus with the kingdoms of this world, and he will surely tempt the followers of Jesus with them as well (parable of the Sower, anyone?).
Still don't get what you're trying to say, except that you are possibly a gnostic who is claiming 'higher hidden meaning' in the gospels that us 'lesser mortals' are not divinely inspired enough to grasp or understand.
And I think your grasp of Greek is suspect, not to mention your Hebrew (having read previous posts of yours).
Are you for real, or are you trolling? Are you gathering or scattering?

(Messiah means merely 'king of Israel')

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Messiah means 'Moshiach' or 'Anointed One' in Hebrew.
King is Melek, or 'Melech'. The 2 are entirely different words, even if they do share a vague root.
For example:
Hebrew has no vowels, only consonants. And it goes from right to left. Bearing in mind there are no vowels, if I were to write the name 'Beethoven', it would look like this:
NVHTB.
The equivalent of vowels came later in order to determine how a word should be pronounced, and were produced under the apropriate consanants. So Beethoven would now look like:
NVHTB
e o e
e
Without vowels, the you could find the word B-T and wonder, 'Does it mean BiT, BaT, BoT, BeT, or BuT?'
'Speak' (MeDaBeR), and desert/wilderness (MiDBaR) share a root but with different meanings.

You have skewed and perverted texts to imply things that are not so.
I see what you did there


You are a troll.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Yes but there is a big difference between the myriads of sons of God and the only-begotten son of God so we have come full circle in this discussion.

I agree Messiah is a title, there were false Messiahs too. The real Messiah saved mankind.

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Yes but there is a big difference between the myriads of sons of God and the only-begotten son of God so we have come full circle in this discussion.

I agree Messiah is a title, there were false Messiahs too. The real Messiah saved mankind.

edit on 30-12-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

Only begotten. Many of the Egyptian gods were monogenes or autogenes, self created or only begotten etc. There's no real difference. Ra created himself for instance. Isis even designed a new penis for Osiris when he lost his old one during a fight with his uncle Set.

Exacty HOW did Jesus save mankind? Does it involve human sacrifice?

Lucius Driftwood

Messiah means 'Moshiach' or 'Anointed One' in Hebrew.
King is Melek, or 'Melech'. The 2 are entirely different words, even if they do share a vague root.

Meshiach means "the annointed king of Judah-Israel of the house of David". Messiah is only used about Hebrew kings including and after king David. Not many, but a royal bloodline to the throne of Sion. On both his mother's side and the sides of the two different Josephs listed as his fathers are firstborn heirs to this throne and bloodline. If Jesus had no heirs like Catholic dogma and doctrine dictates, Jesus was the last one. That smells of rats. Jesus was married, had children and survived crucifiction, the royal bloodline still exists, and somewhere out there there lives a living heir to the throne of David, a descendant and firstborn to the Jesus and Rosemary chain. This is the guy of whom Jesus says: "He will be my son, and I will be his God."

Lucius Driftwood
Abraham was not a Jew until AFTER GOD made a covenant promise with him

Abraham was never a Jew. The word Jew reflects the Hebrew name Judah, one of Jacob's twelve sons and the name of one of the Israeli tribes. Judah is also a separate kingdom from Israel, and the two faught dozens of wars against eachother. The word 'Jew' wasn't used until after Babylon in the time of Daniel, who is by many concidered "the first Jew".

Meshiach means "the annointed king of Judah-Israel of the house of David". Messiah is only used about Hebrew kings including and after king David. Not many, but a royal bloodline to the throne of Sion

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


NOT TRUE.
www.blueletterbible.org...

Dude, do your research. You are increasingly looking like a Dan Brown novel.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Messiah means 'anointed one', be that anointed priest, anointed king, one anointed for a task. It's a derivative of mashach which means 'to anoint' or 'to consecrate'.
I could respect your gnosticism if you were genuine, but you clearly have an agenda rooted in dishonesty here.
Your spurious statements show a lack of integrity and an intent to pervert and deceive.

www.youtube.com...

Abraham was never a Jew

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Apologies for the generalization.
There is no way to determine between the tribes of Israel and Judah these days, and I was using a generic term in keeping with present day understanding.
Maybe I should have said 'The first Hebrew'. 'Israelite' didn't come about until after Jacob ended up on the wrong side of a wrestling match with GOD.
What name would you give to a covenant people?

Lucius Driftwood

Meshiach means "the annointed king of Judah-Israel of the house of David". Messiah is only used about Hebrew kings including and after king David. Not many, but a royal bloodline to the throne of Sion

reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

NOT TRUE.
www.blueletterbible.org...

Dude, do your research. You are increasingly looking like a Dan Brown novel.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Messiah means 'anointed one', be that anointed priest, anointed king, one anointed for a task. It's a derivative of mashach which means 'to anoint' or 'to consecrate'.
I could respect your gnosticism if you were genuine, but you clearly have an agenda rooted in dishonesty here.
Your spurious statements show a lack of integrity and an intent to pervert and deceive.

Meshiach is a hebrew word and concept and the very cornerstone of Judaism. Speeking of which. Take a look at www.jewfaq.org... you might actually learn something. As for your ad hominem trolling and namegiving, I have seen worse. And I'm not agnostic, and your paranoid delutions concerning my 'agenda' as you put it doesn't match reality either.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


You have presented a website that was set up by a female liberal jew who doesn't even consider herself a rabbi.
HARDLY an authority on torah/talmud/tanakh.
HARDLY even orthodox recognized judaism.
This is your idea of 'DO SOME RESEARCH?'?

Your response lacks genuine authority and I stand by my remarks.
By the way, it's spelled, 'DELUSIONAL'.
And I never accused you of being an agnostic. I suspect that you are a GNOSTIC.
You are drawing out hidden meanings from things where simplicity is too simplistic and straightforward.
Is truth for everyone, or only a select group of intellectual elitist types who lord it over the ignorant masses?

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood


How about this one at Chabad.org?
www.chabad.org...

Moshiach is the Hebrew word for “messiah.” The word messiah in English means a savior or a “hoped-for deliverer.” The word moshiach in Hebrew actually means “anointed.” In Biblical Hebrew, the title moshiach was bestowed on somebody who had attained a position of nobility and greatness. For example, the high priest is referred to as the kohen ha-moshiach.

In Talmudic literature the title Moshiach, or Melech HaMoshiach (the King Messiah), is reserved for the Jewish leader who will redeem Israel in the End of Days.

You can't just smear Canah-bosem oil on year head and be a Jewish king Messiah, the first thing that must be in order is being a direct descendant to king David, and if that line passed through Jesus, wouldn't that be amazing?

In Talmudic literature the title Moshiach, or Melech HaMoshiach (the King Messiah), is reserved for the Jewish leader who will redeem Israel in the End of Days.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Talmud is the culmination of years of personal interpretation by rabbis of the Hebrew scriptures. Rabbis would comment on the previous commentaries ad nauseum.
So Talmud is human commentary on commentaries on commentaries on commentaries on interpretation.
Orthodox judaism tends to place emphasis and importance on talmud as opposed to torah.
Jesus even said that the pharisees taught the traditions of man rather than GOD, thus placing authority of man over GOD.

Torah is very clear on the meaning of messiah, whether people like or choose to accept it or not.

Lucius Driftwood

Torah is very clear on the meaning of messiah, whether people like or choose to accept it or not.

Feel free to believe everything you want. Looks to me that not even a seven nation army could change that. Would you call yourself a messiah if you had oil in your hair? Or is your pastor messiah if he smears oil into his scalp?