Dollar Melts and Bush takes no action

Now they can used unbacked worthless Euros instead, No major world currency can ever be backed by gold anymore there is just not enough gold in the world for that.

If all the gold in the world was formed into a single block it wouldnt even fill up a standard sized tennis court.

Don't you mean all the gold in circulation? Although there's no way to tell for sure, I'm certain all the gold in this huge planet would take up more space than a tennis court. But if you were to put all that gold on the market the stuff would be cheap.

Also the the United States abandoned the gold standard in 1933 for United States Notes long before Nixon.

That is most assuredly true.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource


Don't you mean all the gold in circulation? Although there's no way to tell for sure, I'm certain all the gold in this huge planet would take up more space than a tennis court. But if you were to put all that gold on the market the stuff would be cheap.

True but most of the gold you can mine is already gone.(about a third of what is already out) remains un-mined and will cost in excess of $300 an ounce to extract. So it really not going to be cost effective to get that gold.

If you went down into the earths core there is much more gold, you could coat the entire US in 3 feet of gold with the amount in the core. But I dont really see any way to ever get that gold and if you did it would indeed kill the price of gold.

I do not believe you are being realistic, I believe your sincere blindness is restraining your logic.


Russia's gold and hard currency reserves rose to a post-Soviet record of 113 billion dollars (86.6 billion euros) at the start of September.

The group forecast a budget surplus of 3.5% of gross domestic product, real ruble appreciation and GDP growth of 7%.

www.bday.co.za...

Sorry!

The inflated dollar is going to 'slip slide away' and the world is going to go stop loss!, and demand gold, we are going to come up short do to over confidence and over printing and a lack of gold. Even if we have the gold it will not stop the depression that is immenient for correction. Our leaders gambled on their leadership and lost. We have lost our edge and respect in a world gone MAD.
And we may be the driver.
We are fortunate in one respect, however! Muslim terrorists wanted the financial decline of the great Satan. And I believe they have it, so no more terrorist attacks.

Polar Bear

I tell you what since the 70s predictions for the US economy was in the making so to tell you the truth people back then new what is going on now.

The problem. well somebody like me that was young in the 70s did not care about the woes of money because it was not in my interest, so people that took care of their business back then are the ones to be ok.

Most of the baby boomer's are in trouble now, ready retiring and nothing to show for but more years of work ahead.

Oh, one other item The similarities between now and WW11 are immense. At that time the Bush Dynasty under Prescott invested heavily in the German Industrial War machine. And profited greatly at the expense of American Soldiers lives and 50 million dead
The Bush Dynasty via Carlyle, Connoco, Haliburton, etc..... is invested heavily in Yukos, Lukos, China Industrial Complex, Iran, Iraq, etc.... and once again at the expense of the American Soldier.
In short if you support this Administration, these Business men and Bankers of the World. You are a traitor to the American Patriot and are blind to the manipulation you are under.
I will loose, but not as much as you.

POLAR BEAR

Originally posted by Polar Bear
I do not believe you are being realistic, I believe your sincere blindness is restraining your logic.


Russia's gold and hard currency reserves rose to a post-Soviet record of 113 billion dollars (86.6 billion euros) at the start of September.
0,00.html

Sorry!

Sorry here are the facts of the worlds gold, I dont know what kind of point you think your making with that link or what kind of information you think it contains.


www.whatprice.co.uk...

I dont know if you think the Euro will be backed by gold but its just not going to happen.

Shadow,

You are absolutely correct and eeexxxcccuuusssseeee me for being so unaware. I bow to you Imperial Warrior.

Polar Bear.

p.s. from your reference not mine

$7,000,000,000,000 The approximate value of US sovereign debt (which excludes future welfare obligations, none of which have been reserved in the public accounts [see below - generational debt])
$25,000,000,000,000 The approximate value of the world's nominal sovereign debt.
$44,000,000,000,000 The approximate value of the US generational debt - the cost of providing to the current working population what it believes itself entitled to in future welfare. i.e. the extent to which the US government has failed to reserve assets to pay for implied promises.


Sorry! www.whatprice.co.uk...

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Polar Bear]

Im not sure what point your trying to make about the worlds gold supply with debt stats. I dont remember saying anything about the debt. You were the one that produced a link about Russia's gold reserve having a increase. Trying to prove me wrong with a pointless link I bow to your power of reason.

I am out matched you win

Why is everyone so worked up about the USD? I'm not, it's providing me an opportunity to invest into US firms at a lower premium. I'm also buying alot more stuff off of EBAY.com instead of EBAY.ca . If the dollar goes even lower it will only be a boon for the trade defecit. You see when Canada had a low dollar it created Hollywood north, and that turned out to be the best thing that happened to Canadas economy in a long while. The further down the USD reaches can only be a good thing in the long term(for the US and Global Economy). Is it gonna cause hardship? Sure it will, any shift as big as this in an economy as dynamic as the USA's will cause Hardships. Can it be stopped? Well sure it can, not sure why you'd want to sacrifice long term prosperity for short term relief. The only big mistake Bush has made economically is his taxcuts. The budget defecit is the biggest worry for foriegn investors right now,(well that and Oil as usuall)

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Im not sure what point your trying to make about the worlds gold supply with debt stats. I dont remember saying anything about the debt. You were the one that produced a link about Russia's gold reserve having a increase. Trying to prove me wrong with a pointless link

I bow to your power of reason.

I am out matched you win

Carp, Kid it is your pointless link not mine. I believe I have had enough of you. BYE

There will always be enough gold to back every currency fully, one hundred percent, believe it or not.

You just divide the 120,000 tons of gold that currently exists in storage, between everyone (almost 7 billion people) according to his or her proportion of the worlds total wealth. As many of the world are very poor, there is less total wealth per head than you might expect.

Obviously it cannot be done at $US 440 per ounce. But what if gold went up to $US 8,000 per ounce ? or $US 976,000 per ounce ? There will always be enough gold to go around, the value just has to be adjusted upward enough to suit.

That is about to happen, as people flee the debased paper funny money and turn to gold. The bankers will do absolutely anything to prevent this stampede into gold and the collapse of banking, but they are doomed to failure. When the run on the banks begins, watch gold zoom upward in value.

An ounce of gold is an ounce of gold. If you have one ounce, you cannot turn it into more. But with bank notes, you can jut go on printing the damned things forever until their value falls to nothing.

Every paper currency that has ever existed has collapsed into nothingness. Every single one. It has never worked before, not ever. Now, for the first time in the history of the world, every country is using paper money, and it is about to cause the biggest financial disaster in history.

Maybe ten thousand years of recorded history has shown gold and silver to survive the collapse of whole civilizations, wars, revolutions, natural disasters, and financial panics. Everyone should own some real gold, and real silver, and invest in the shares of mining companies that mine the stuff.

In Wiemar Germany just before WW2, a wheelbarrow load of marks would not buy a loaf of bread. It is not that bread was all that valuable, but that the paper currency was rapidly becoming worthless.

The only thing that is going to solve this mess is to go back to one hundred percent honest gold backed money. It will happen, but gold will be unimaginably more valued in dollar terms when it does finally happen.

The few smart prudent people that hoard some gold now, are going to be fabulously rewarded, but not immediately. It is for your long term security, not just to get rich quick.

Originally posted by Polar Bear


Carp, Kid it is your pointless link not mine. I believe I have had enough of you. BYE

The link was in reference to world's gold supply, you know what you said I wasnt being realistic about. Your link was about Russia's gold reserve for god knows what reason.

I also have had enough of you. Dont let the door hit you on the way out

This whole topic intrigues me, and I admit I don't have a good understanding of it all. I was doing a little poking about on the internet and found this:


www.gata.org...



They talk about disappearing SDR Certificates and worry that the U.S. Government plan to default on its gold obligations, like it did in 1933 and 1971.

I am not sure that gold is really relevant these days in terms of holding the currency values up, I may be very wrong though.

I am no expert in these matters, but this is how I see it. Currency holds it value due to trade, what a country sells and what it buys. If its products and services are in demand the currency will hold its value. The Euro will never be "backed" by gold, because it does not need to be.

The US is run on the principle of vast consumerism, and to the most part this is a wonderful system. Go to more well off parts and just look at the huge success of consumerism at its best. The downfall is that is is not self sustaining. The US imports in a massive scale which dwarfs its exports of both services and products. The dollar is losing value because nations/people are chosing services and products elsewhere.

I believe if the dollar is to recover, the US must be more productive on its own soil instead of relying on goods from elsewhere. Sorry if my point seems simplistic, like I said I am no expert.

[edit on 22-11-2004 by Kriz_4]

how do you just buy gold/silver anyways?

are you talking buying a gold necklace? or a chunk of gold?

It would probably be best if the dollar collapses completely. It would not mean the end of America but it would mean that some big changes would occur. First, the federal government would be bankrupt and forced to accept going back to a gold or silver standard currency. I�m thinking we will go to a silver backed currency and the Federal Reserve and concept of modern bank will be a bad memory.

This is why I do not own 1 credit card and have ZERO debt. I don�t have car payments (my car is a bit older than yours most likely) and I have no savings account (I put everything I want to save into silver).

I was recently in my local bank to correct a problem in my checking account. The nice na�ve lady asked me why o why didn�t I have a savings account? Wow! How can I even begin to start to explain it to her? Does she realize how worthless a savings account is? Does she understand banks make 45% interest on savings dollars yet only pay us prime? Of course not! She is one of those who will be hurt very badly in the upcoming depression. I feel sorry for her.

As for the debt�hmmmm.. The debt is owned to the Federal Reserve, not the US Government. The F.R. actually loans the money to the Treasury department (even though the treasury department prints the money).

But it�s all a ponzi scheme. Here�s a simplified example:

Government borrows $100 from the Federal Reserve. They do this by issuing a bond. A bond is a piece of paper that works like a loan. If you buy a bond you give the government some money and they promise to give you that money back plus a percentage.

Ok, so the government issues a $100.00 bond with a 5% interest return attached to it. This means if someone gives the government $100.00 they promise to give them back $105.00. Remember this step because it is important.

Now the Federal Reserve decides to lend $100.00 to the government. How do they pull this off? They go to the treasury department and say, please print us $101.00 and keep the $1.00 for yourself to cover your expenses.

Now they buy the $105.00 bond for $100.00 in new money. The government now spends this money and it enters circulation. The treasury spends the $1.00 to pay for ink and payroll.

But where does the extra $4.00 come from? It wasn�t printed. No one has it because it didn�t exist in the first place.

This is the reason all fiat currencies are frauds.....

Originally posted by blanketgirl
how do you just buy gold/silver anyways?

are you talking buying a gold necklace? or a chunk of gold?

I buy silver in 100oz bullion bars. I don�t buy much gold because who knows what central bankers will try to do to the price and I may have to convert back to cash in the next 2-3 years.

You can buy 1, 5, 10, 20 and 100oz bars of silver from many places on the net as well as most local gold / silver merchants in your city.

MrNice - I don't pretend to have any understanding of this subject at all. You seem to have a pretty good handle on the financial aspects. Let me ask you as a concerned father of a very young son. Is there ANY way we can come out of this? How do you go about buying gold/silver?

Originally posted by superdude
MrNice - I don't pretend to have any understanding of this subject at all. You seem to have a pretty good handle on the financial aspects. Let me ask you as a concerned father of a very young son. Is there ANY way we can come out of this? How do you go about buying gold/silver?

We will certainly come out of this. My wife is Indonesian. Her family recently survived an economic collapse very much like we are about to experience. I spent several months in Jakarta, and learned a lot about life after a crash.

Keep your savings in silver or gold. I�m too much of a financial coward to purchase gold when it goes over $400.00 an ounce because there is such a possible downside to things. $7.00 an ounce for silver is more reasonable. Her parents kept all of their money in gold / silver and did ok.

The electricity will still run, the groceries will still be there, water will turn on. But�there will be a LOT more destitute people. It was heartbreaking seeing how many people lived in the streets in that country.

Expect that your children will live with you much longer than expected, like children did during the 1900�s. You�ll keep them close and they�ll help support the household until they get married and stable.

The biggest changes I see going forward are basically good. We won�t be playing video games and buying fancy cars on e-z credit but instead doing things as a community, you know, fairs and dances and going to church more often. Things we should have been doing in the first place. Your children / family will have to care for you in your old age (no expensive rest home for you�you�ll just have to enjoy the grandkids full time).

I keep 6 months of food on hand and some basic emergency supplies. Enough silver around to pay the bills if finding a job becomes tough and the rest I leave up to God. Oh, and I do own a firearm, gotta have one of those if your sensible. (I expect SOME civil disorder in the beginning, but not as much as many people fear).

We�re about to endure some hard times�no worries�I trust Americans. We�re a good people who have strayed a little and need to re-focus on the important things in life.

As for our debt. The federal government has basically these choices: Default, refinance, or devalue.

If they default the world will no longer honor the dollar�I could not predict what would happen then. Hyperinflation and the dollar�s total collapse.

If they refinance we get high inflation along with a bigger crash latter.

If they devalue we get hyper inflation just like pre-WWII Germany. We�re talking $200,000 loaf of bread here.

I'm predicting refinance with central bankers pulling some strings.

Here is one site that has a lot of links to gold / silver sellers. I�d advise to pick one that is near you and do a test transaction. If they seem reasonable and reliable convert as much of your savings into hard assets as you feel comfortable with.

Silver, IMHO, is not likely to go down very much even on the best economic news due to overselling of options (another wall-street bubble that is about to burst and make the tech bubble burst look like child�s play).

Anyway, that�s my 2 cents. Just remember when you visit this link that these guys make money selling hard assets�take everything I say and they say and process it with common sense.


Gold / Silver Link