Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

..... I remember Dr Green writing that the number of people on the entire planet who had seen the research he was talking about was maybe 8 or so, and he was one of the 8 so there were 7 others....

He also said

The RF is identified in a dozen classified and a half-dozen unclassified studies on cardiological and neurological injuries ... not thousands of reports. Very, very few physicians even care about this arcane area of research...and fewer know about the injuries sustained by near-field (< 100 M) to humans. The data is sparse, it is not properly Peer-reviewed, it is not understood, it is not the subject of current research. And that is the truth. T

With the studies that remain classified then we are snookered. But I did find this from 1976:

DST-1810S-074-76 - BIOLOGICAL_EFFECTS_OF_ELECTROMAGNETIC_RADIATION-RADIOWAVES_AND_MICROWAVES-EURASIAN_COMMUNIST_COUNTRIES

Just one snippet



There's plenty more documents where that came from as well.....

Links

Maybe that's why only 7 or 8 people have seen the unclassified part of the research.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

You didn't show the powers he [Geller] displayed on the Johnny Carson show (Uri Geller segment starts at 2 minutes).

I didn't include the video of Geller influencing Euro 96 during the England v Scotland game either. But here it is for your perusal Arby.



You do realize that if England would have gone on to win the whole tournament it would have forever been known as "URI '96'. That's how much regard we 'almost' had for him. But he just couldn't perform on the big stage when we came up against the Germans. Perhaps that scared him as well?

Anyway, seriously now, I do find it rather odd that all the Stargate stuff went on for more than 20 years (although Geller was only a small part of it). Was it driven more by fear that the Soviets were making real progress? Or was there just enough 'evidence' to keep the project ticking over for that long without any real degree of accuracy? Then the Cold War ended.

Thanks, but it's inconvenient for much of the global audience to do that.

Does the national archives normally digitize the records and make them available for download after a period of time? Or does some citizen have to go to Kew, copy the documents, then scan the copies and post those, or is it even legal to do that?

It's inconvenient for UK residents as well. Especially the majority of us who live outside our capital city.

In the past decade the MoD have digitized 'all' the 'UFO' files and placed them online. The present policy seems to indicate they have no intention of doing so with these documents. You can arrange to visit Kew and scan documents (if they are deemed suitable). Or you can go through a request process for copies.. Both of which are likely to be expensive.

Anyway if someone can help me find the appendix F Linda Howe mentions with reference to Rendlesham, I'd appreciate it, unless she's got her wires crossed.

No idea what she's referring to either. There is an Annex F in uap_vol1_annex_dtof

There is one solitary page labelled Annex F. It has nothing to do with Rendlesham as far as I can see.



Maybe there is another Annex F elsewhere amongst the files? Or maybe LMH is just mistaken?

a reply to: mirageman

I hope you are serious re LMH

a reply to: Baablacksheep

I hope you are serious re LMH

I hope you know whether I am or not

LT COLONEL HALT: Bit like a pupil of an eye lookin' at you, winking. And the flash is so bright to the star scope, that err... it almost burns your eye

Speculation on why this episode on the Halt tape abruptly ends:

After this object broke up, several lights began buzzing the WSA at Bentwaters.
Since any reference to ‘Weapons Storage Area’ could have led to embarrassing questions, this part of the tape was edited out.

The story of a landed spaceship requesting spare parts from the base commander was, of course, a red herring.

Evidence? See below (hopefully Nevels, Halt and Burroughs can be trusted – the list of trustworthy witnesses is growing thin…):

Burroughs, 2009: ”I was held up for a while but was allowed out in the area and that is where I met up with Halts party.”

“I was told by Halt when I met up with them that something landed the third night and by Bustinza also.”

”He never said what landed just something landed he then pointed up in the sky and showed me the blue lights that were flying around. As we watched them that’s when we saw one of them beam lights inside the [weapons] storage area and the radio traffic went nuts.”

”I was with Halt and we could see the beams of light going down into the [weapons storage] area and we could hear everything going on inside the area as it was happening. We couldn’t see the area but we could see the lights going down in the area and could hear what was going on. ”

John Burroughs, old Rendlesham forum, somewhere around 2009 (before the 30th anniversary conference)

Nevels, 2010: ”So when we went out to the edge where there was a farmer’s field - Lt Colonel Halt and I were mainly the leaders, we were in front – and we looked out and saw this object that was sitting over in the farmer’s field about 200 yards away. To me it looked kind of yellowish orange like very hot, and it looked like it was on fire, burning. And every once in a while I would see something shoot off that looked like molten metal. Colonel Halt and I both observed that and we watched it.

So we jumped the fence and as we jumped the fence it disappeared. What we saw was so fast and it disappeared. We were in awe about where did it go? What did it do? And I looked up and saw the lights and I told Col. Halt, ‘Sir, the lights are up above us.’

There was very rapid movement. No sound whatsoever! All the cattle in the field quieted down. It was just as still - an eerie feeling because it was very quiet.
The lights would disappear and be gone in a blink. You could blink your eye and look up and they would be gone. Then RAF Bentwaters would announce on their radio back to us, ‘We see it, sir! We see it! It's over us!’
Then when the light disappeared from their side (about 4 miles away), we immediately were able to say, ‘Here it is!’ In other words, it was like it was instantaneous from there to where we were

Those beams that came down looked like very faint laser beams. They were pencil-thin. We could see it against the black sky. When we looked out and saw those pencil-thin beams, I told Col. Halt, ‘I believe that something is trying to tap into what we've got’.

Source: Nevels, Earthfiles interview, 2010

a reply to: Guest101

Since any reference to ‘Weapons Storage Area’ could have led to embarrassing questions, this part of the tape was edited out.

I think you are right to speculate.

Despite the fact that former UK Government Defence Minister (July 1995 - May 1997) Michael Portillo has confirmed nuclear weapons were present on the base. It's in the thread : link. There must be something written into the contracts of all the other military guys with pensions that prevent them from admitting it. We could speculate that conversations were about the continued security and safety of the nuclear weapons. So to avoid any potential conflict the tape surely would have been sanitized to remove any mention of them should that be the case.

We could, of course, speculate even further on what has been removed from that tape. Halt has claimed he took fresh batteries and at least two tapes with him. But he seemed to have only recorded enough verbal notes to fill one side of one of the tapes. Hmm?

Halt has also said on radio interviews that he has 'other' tapes secreted away in case his memory fails him (or something even worse happens to him). Which is suggesting that even in his twilight years he feels insecure enough to be taking precautions like this. Not such a merry old soul after all?

Of course the one thing he has never gone on record about is what happened next as Burroughs and Bustinza went ahead towards the 'light'. He was in charge of them and responsible with a 'duty of care' to his men. Did something happen there which could also land in his lap? Is this why the tape seems to end inconclusively?

a reply to: mirageman

Yes MM,

originally posted by: mirageman
As for other news it seems that some of the UFO files (with redactions) that were on hold due to the General Election here in the UK have now been released. Well they have publicly.
...
But you need to visit the National Archives Centre in Kew to view them at present.

Hopefully it will not be necessary for long to have to visit Kew to see the new documents. I'm currently awaiting permission to post images of some of the files. They are subject to Crown Copyright, so permission is required to display images - although it is possible to quote from them. (I presume someone else will post them soon anyway).

In the meantime, here are a couple of quotes from those files:

(1) A quote for Rendlesham UFO supporters from a "Secret UK Eyes A" document in the newly released UK files "... Rendlesham Forest : In the early 80's a UAP landed outside of RAF Bentwaters in a forest. ... There seems no doubt that something very strange occurred... " (Ministry of Defence "Secret UK Eyes A" memo from 1995, para 12).



(2) A quote for UFO skeptics and dissident ufologists from the newly released UK files : "... The truth seldom sells books!" (Conclusion to a Ministry of Defence memo dated 24 April 1996 commenting on a UFO book)

(I don't post in this thread often, despite some very good work by others in it, because the Rendlesham "incident" has become a quagmire of petty egos which I've long found it best to simply avoid. Many of those involved in the relevant events have hindered, apparently deliberately, any proper examination of what happened).

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Thank you for the info. Isaac. Hopefully these files will find their way onto the web soon enough. Good to see you still around here and I am sure anyone looking in wishes you all the best as well.

....the Rendlesham "incident" has become a quagmire of petty egos which I've long found it best to simply avoid. Many of those involved in the relevant events have hindered, apparently deliberately, any proper examination of what happened

I've sometimes used this thread as a source of personal amusement. But it's also become a journey of bemusement at the interplay of various people involved and even those not involved. So I really can't disagree. Although in recent times I feel like some of the chaff is being cleared away, some of the red herrings are trapped in the net and, slow that it maybe, progress has been made and is gaining a bit of pace.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Anyway, Linda Howe mentioned the Condign report having an appendix F relating to Rendlesham. I downloaded the full Condign report from the national archives, 460 pages and haven't found the appendix F she refers to, has anybody seen it?

How says in the 460 page report, appendix F, difficult to find but available on earthfiles, mentions "mental effects", "as in the Rendlesham Incident" .

Sorry Arby I misinterpreted what you were asking first time around. I thought this was something we hadn't spotted before. However, according to someone involved closely in the case the correct part of the file is Condign uap_vol2_pgs16to30. You will find the specifics on page 3 of that PDF relating to Rendlesham.

You, and others following the thread of course, might also find it interesting that there is an interview with Cheryl Bennett (former aide to Sen. John McCain) now available. Cheryl assisted John Burroughs in his fight to with the VA.

The interview is available from this page : kgraradioarchives.com...

The interview is dated 22nd June 2017.

I haven't given it a listen as yet but it could be very interesting.

a reply to: IsaacKoi
Thanks for the quotes Isaac. It's nice to see some tidbits of info even if the full documents aren't readily accessible to everyone yet.

a reply to: mirageman
Thanks, that's the other appendix F I was looking for.

I think Linda Howe neglected to mention the phrasing that "it might be postulated that several observers were probably exposed...." but that phrasing indicates to me that the author doesn't really have a clue what happened either. I'm really disappointed with the Condign report and I wonder who the author is and how they seem to be so out of touch with other research related to the subject.

a reply to: mirageman

Cheryl confirms that she saw John's files and that in her opinion his missing records were intentionally mislaid and then John put into an "appeals loop" intended to go nowhere.

She also confirmed that she saw John's files and the award is specifically for the encounter in then forest. John asked her to repeat this, adding there are those that think it could be a general award.

Cheryl stated again that the award was specifically for the injury that occurred as part of the RFI. John then followed up that he also had to confirm this.

Of further interest was that it was Williams who contacted Senator McCain, who was a friend of Williams about getting VA disability and treatment for John.

At this point I don't see any further point discussing when the alleged injury occurred.

We've numerous interviews and quotes from many people involved now including a former aide to Senator McCain. That doesn't mean it was aliens or soviets or anything like that. Just that the event happened then.

More people who could claim "expert" status have told us this is when it happened than the number of experts who said this might all be a lighthouse.

Seeing at what happened in the forest could be so many things I really don't understand the point of trying to dismiss, Or belittle everyone from Burroughs himself, Dr Green, to Annie Jacobson, Pat Fracogna, Williams, and now Cheryl Bennett.

Arby has some very valid points about the physics and dubious nature of Condign but I can't help feel it's putting the cart before the horse.

a reply to: ctj83

Yes, having listened myself, I think it's pretty much certain that whatever injured John was a product of his excursions out into the forest on those two nights. The whole case was based around it. And it seems to many people's surprise it was won. It also seems at times that either gross incompetence or some very underhand tricks were at work to delay and disrupt the case moving forward.

Sadly for John he still is unable to see his own medical files and no one has told him what actually happened to him. So we simply can't say it was aliens or Soviet or even the 'dangerous weather' that Condign alludes to. Although Dr.Green has said

"...inside the doctors notes, the nursing notes, the specialist's note are a myriad of references to Special Access Projects and the names of OTHER "adjacent and ancillary Programs and projects that can not be disentangled, and which could uncover active and recent projects unrelated to Rendlesham. The reasons are not necessarily related to Rendlesham...and not all the connections relate to Rendlesham."

Source : www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think the answer lies right there somewhere. But the secrecy that surrounds these Special Access Projects also surrounds John's medical files and thus the RFI as well. You could make a fairly interesting TV drama about this whole episode of the case. Probably someone will one day!

However, from a purely human perspective, it is in no doubt that without the diligence of Senator McCain's aide Cheryl Bennett, that John would not have won this case. It is also probably why he is also still alive today. That is actually the most important thing to come out of this part of the story.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
Thanks for the quotes Isaac. It's nice to see some tidbits of info even if the full documents aren't readily accessible to everyone yet.

Another tidbit from the "new" UK UFO files... "Sec (AS)2 acts as a 'front' for MOD ...".



That quote is from the same "Secret UK Eyes A" Ministry of Defence memo from 1995 that I previously quoted in file Defe 24/3152, i.e. one of the "new" UFO Policy files. (As I've previously written in Section 8 of a thread I posted in 2011 about official UFO files from the USA, the policy/administrative files tend to contain the more interesting UFO documents).



Perhaps more directly relevant to some of the issues recently discussed in this thread, the "new" UK UFO files also contain a memo from 1994 which discusses possible disinformation involving UFOs (apparently by the Russians, but the redactions in the relevant document are more extensive than normal so it is difficult to be sure). The same document also refers to a publication relating to high power particle beams as "a useful reference work". The relevant publication is the proceedings of the 8th International Conference on High Power Particle Beams, which includes various articles on plasmas. The same memo in the UFO files also refers to the (then) forthcoming 10th International Conference on High Power Particle Beams.
ieeexplore.ieee.org... Number=1

(I think I have to continue to refrain from posting the full pages due to Crown Copyright issues, but I'm continuing some dialogue with a manager at the National Archives in the hope that the material can all be made freely available online).

Of course, the Condign Report also included various references to material on plasmas - as discussed in my May 2006 article on the Condign Report. That article quoted from, among other things, Annex F to Working Paper 1. Indeed, I highlighted that material as particularly significan to the reasoning and content of the Condign Report. I said:

The 25 Working Papers appear to be based on extremely limited
research. Most of the 25 "Working Papers" only cite one or two
items in support. Indeed, few of those articles actually relate
to the central contentions in the Condign Report and are in fact
at most of peripheral relevance.

On an initial review of the Condign Report, the key Working
Papers appear to be the first and last ones, i.e.: (a) Working
Paper 1 (particularly Annex D and (especially) Annex F) in
relation to UAP effects on humans and objects. (b) Working Paper
25 on magnetic field effects on humans.

...

After reading over 100 pages of material, the reader is finally
rewarded with a comment on a specific well known case. That
comment relates to the best known recent British UFO case, the
Rendlesham Forest incident. The MOD's file on the incident has
been released to the public and is available on its website.
That incident has been discussed in dozens of books (by skeptics
and pro-ETHers) and has been the subject of several complete
books. The relevant comment (in full) from the Condign Report is
as follows "The well-reported Rendlesham Forest/Bentwaters event
is an example where it might be postulated that several
observers were probably exposed to UAP radiation for longer than
normal UAP sighting periods. There may be other cases which
remain unreported. It is clear that the recipients of these
effects are not aware that their behaviour/perception of what
they are observing is being modified" (Volume 2, Working Paper
1, Annex F, page F-4, para 13).

Anyway, my brief visit back to ufology has lasted a few days beyond my original limit. At least I've now tied up a few of my easier loose UFO ends. I'll probably return for another week in November/December for Project Phoenix. I wish you all good luck with your research in the meantime. Cheers.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Thanks Isaac. The use of quotations around "front" is very provocative! Why not call it a collection resource, a cent hub etc?

It also suggests that Nick Pope has not significantly exaggerated his role at AS2.

Why was Dr David Clarke not called back for this release, and why was Pope the official spokesman?

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Hopefully those files will be released in full in digital form shortly

This part sounds particularly intriguing.

.......the "new" UK UFO files also contain a memo from 1994 which discusses possible disinformation involving UFOs (apparently by the Russians, but the redactions in the relevant document are more extensive than normal so it is difficult to be sure). The same document also refers to a publication relating to high power particle beams as "a useful reference work".....

By 1994 the Cold War was over and the Iron Curtain had been dismantled so interesting how things there were still being discussed.

Anyway thanks again for the input Isaac. May I also take this opportunity to wish you all the best for the future. We will really will miss you once you're gone for good. So will Ufology, as it becomes increasingly fractured and massively commercialized.

Thanks for the info, Isaak. Hopefully you can get these files published on the web. After all, why would the National Archives need to make money from them?

Interesting to read that an ‘Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon’ ‘landed’ in Rendlesham forest. Isn’t there a contradiction between ‘Aerial’ and ‘landing’? ;-)

I have given the theory of MM some thought and there is one element that doesn’t seem to fit: The police were called on the first night and again the next morning.
If this was an accident or experiment that was covered up with a UFO story afterwards, the calls to the police right on the first night/morning do not fit in.

You could argue that the UFO cover-up was part of the ‘experiment’ from the beginning, but then still the question remains why the risk was taken to involve the local police right from the start. They might have started a serious investigation and uncovered the true nature of the events.

Another possibility is that the USAF personnel who called the police were not aware of the ‘experiment’. But someone in the chain of command must have given permission to make the call so that means even the higher echelons were not privy to the ‘experiment’, otherwise they would have prevented such early involvement of the local police.
Performing dangerous experiments on British soil close to a nuclear base armed to the teeth without even informing the people in command? That seems rather adventurous...

Maybe the police were part of the cover-up all along? This is possible but involving them would greatly increase the risk of an information leak.

Another possibility is that it was a Russian operation.

Or maybe it was something truly ‘alien’…

originally posted by: IsaacKoi

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
Thanks for the quotes Isaac. It's nice to see some tidbits of info even if the full documents aren't readily accessible to everyone yet.

Another tidbit from the "new" UK UFO files... "Sec (AS)2 acts as a 'front' for MOD ...".

Thank you Isaac for taking a brief break from UFOlogy retirement to share some more information!

(I think I have to continue to refrain from posting the full pages due to Crown Copyright issues, but I'm continuing some dialogue with a manager at the National Archives in the hope that the material can all be made freely available online).

Good luck with that, I hope it bears fruit!

Annex F to Working Paper 1. Indeed, I highlighted that material as particularly significan to the reasoning and content of the Condign Report.

I wouldn't over-estimate the significance of a statement which begins "It might be postulated that...."

Of course many people have postulated many things about this case, so what would be more exciting instead of something which "might be postulated" is some information from someone who actually knows something, especially if any of the postulates about some kind of military test or equipment being involved might be true, where someone certainly knows something without having to postulate if that's the case. Further lessening the credibility of this postulation for me reference to the so-called "landing site" which doesn't seem like such a credible postulate based on the evidence for it I've reviewed. I did agree with your comments completely about the Condign report that the author seemed to be out of touch with other, apparently more extensive research on the same topic of plasma phenomena, very odd.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Further lessening the credibility of this postulation for me reference to the so-called "landing site" which doesn't seem like such a credible postulate based on the evidence for it I've reviewed. I did agree with your comments completely about the Condign report that the author seemed to be out of touch with other, apparently more extensive research on the same topic of plasma phenomena, very odd.

It sure is!

a reply to: Guest101

....I have given the theory of MM some thought and there is one element that doesn’t seem to fit: The police were called on the first night and again the next morning.
If this was an accident or experiment that was covered up with a UFO story afterwards, the calls to the police right on the first night/morning do not fit in.

Perfectly valid observations my friend. And we cannot ignore some of the facts. The first night (or more correctly Boxing Day morning) the [police were notified and a call logged at 4:11 am] . They also attended to a call to the suspected landing site later that morning around 10:30am.

Colonel Halt has always claimed he was informed early in the morning of the 26th December 1980. He has also mentioned that the local 'bobbies' were also called on the night of his own experiences (27th/28th Dec) but had to attend a burglary and missed the show!

Which suggests that Halt, the Deputy Base Commander, was not aware of any test or experiment going on if my theory
still stands up. Could it all have been something initially that didn't involve the US Air Force at all?

...Performing dangerous experiments on British soil close to a nuclear base armed to the teeth without even informing the people in command? That seems rather adventurous...

It does if the experiments were deemed dangerous. What if they weren't? Except with one exception. An 'odd air form' that one particular witness was over exposed to and injured by. Whatever was going on continued because no one was aware the Americans had been called off base and exposed. Also the forest is public land and so anyone out and about could be subjected to exposure to whatever this phenomenon is/was.

So maybe it's a stretch to believe all that. And I'm fine for it to be knocked down completely. Because it could be Soviet, alien. a lighthouse or even time travellers. Have you any thoughts yourself on what might have been the cause or even what was not the cause?