2 "Water-World" Planets Found

blue planets circling an orange star

That sounds wonderful. I would so love to explore that planet and the system.

reply to post by Pimpintology


If only we could one day be so fortunate.

EternalSolace
If liquid H20 is as rare in the universe as scientists claim, I think it's pretty dangerous to go poking around a planet made up of liquid water... especially if there is technologically advanced life somewhere. If we've found it, you can bet someone else has too.

All extraterrestrials have to do is poke around Earth and look at the current state of Earth's eco-system. Someone might decide we're to great of a threat to the 'water world'. Or we might be invading the territory of a territorially dominate species.

My personal opinion is that we don't have the right to poke around on other planets. We can barely manage the resources of our own planet, we can't get along, we have hard time looking out for one another, and we're just not evolved as a society to the point it makes sense.

Maybe one day we'll get there, but I don't see it happening for a few more centuries.

1. You won't find a scientist today who says water is rare in the universe. That thinking went out the window around the 1980s. Nearly everywhere we look we find water in some form. First we found it in molecular clouds using radio astronomy and spectroscopy. Then we found it in proto-planetary disks around young stars forming planets using spectroscopy. Next we found that every planet in our solar system and many moons have water in some form. Yes, even hot Mercury has water ice in permanently shaded areas. There's water on our moon, there's even more water on Mars and recently there's evidence that some liquid water, salty as it is still flows on the surface seasonally. There are the icey moons of Jupiter, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto all thought to have liquid water oceans beneath the ice. There is a moon of Saturn that is erupting water geysers into space called Enceladus. Here's a picture of that happening caught by the orbiting Cassini space probe:



Recently, we've found that Europa also does this near its South Pole.

Most comets have a bunch of water ice. They are one of the ways that we think water ends up on planets.

Lastly, now that we are detecting planets around other stars we are finding there are probably plenty of "water worlds" out there. This is not a shock to anyone paying attention.

2. There is no harm in telescopically examining these planets. And like you said, it is likely the only thing we will be able to do for quite awhile. The distances between stars are vast and we've barely begun to investigate techniques which could get a probe, much less us to the planets we've detected around nearby stars. These particular planets referred to in this report are much further away than them.

3. Kennedy said, "We choose to go to the moon, AND DO THE OTHER THINGS, *not* because they are easy, but because they are hard."

4. The solution to fighting over dwindling resources in an economy of scarcity is abundance. Where is that abundance? Just look up at night.

Happy Holidays

TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by CosmicDude

 

Sure they havn't hidden the land withe clouds?

Looks like it to me.

I guess I should have pointed out, those are modelled images, not actual photos of those planets. They use an application which a ton of data is fed into, that then creates images of planets based on it.

The Scientific Exoplanets Renderer (SER) is a new scientific software tool to generate photorealistic visualizations of exoplanets. It uses physical properties from exoplanets and their parent stars to generate possible scenarios for their visual appearance as seem from space. Many parameters can be adjusted based on estimates of their atmospheric and surface physics and chemistry. It includes the reconstruction of realistic atmospheric clouds motion and weather effects.

SER is specially designed to reconstruct Earth-like exoplanets, either rocky or ocean in nature, but it is also able to generate visuals for gas giants and stars. SER can be used to interpret and visualize results from General Circulation Models (GCM), reconstruct light-curves, albedo studies, and stellar transit simulations, including moons. Current test models of SER operate in the visual range but future developments will include a wider spectrum.

SER is a scientific tool and it tries to reproduce the physical and chemical interactions of light with matter at planetary scales. This is a time consuming process for computers and not suitable for fast or interactive views of exoplanets. Below are listed some nice educational alternatives for quick visuals of exoplanets.

Much more here: phl.upr.edu...

You can see they have modelled the present day Earth with it as well:



Even more interesting is they have modelled the Paleo-Earth. What are planet was like 500 million years ago:



This is done in order to get an idea of what some planets out there may be like and how life on them might best be detected given a planet's age, composition, atmospheric makeup, etc.

wildespace
I wonder what algorhythm they used to conclude that those planets are fully covered in water.

Can't they detect water spectroscopically?

Yes. But we're a few years away from being able to do that for terrestrial sized exoplanets.

We'll need a very large space telescope with either a starshade or coronograph to get spectra from planets as small as these orbiting where they orbit.

A starshade or coronograph blocks out the light of the star so we can see the close in, warm planets like these.


And water isn't all we could detect with detailed spectra. We could tell if a planet has life.

Its one of the things those scientists who recently went to the US House of Representatives Science Committee to ask for help in getting funded.

Pretty cool

Saw this thread yesterday and didn't get a chance to reply.
Interesting find, however. If the planet is absolutely water with "endless oceans", as the writer puts it, then imagine how life would be on this planet. I would assume if there even IS life that creatures roaming its oceans could possibly be huge - Wonder what the atmosphere is mainly composed of. . .

~Sovereign

JadeStar

CosmicDude

“These planets are unlike anything in our solar system. They have endless oceans,” said lead author Lisa Kaltenegger of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy and the CfA. “There may be life there, but could it be technology-based like ours? Life on these worlds would be under water with no easy access to metals, to electricity, or fire for metallurgy. Nonetheless, these worlds will still be beautiful, blue planets circling an orange star — and maybe life’s inventiveness to get to a technology stage will surprise us.”

www.dailygalaxy.com...

Endless Oceans, in the habitable zone and there may be life. Maybe Kevin Costner is there, lol

edit on 23-12-2013 by CosmicDude because: (no reason given)

Having read the paper, they aren't kidding when they say they are different from anything in our solar system.

Imagine a planet which is almost entirely water.

In other words, no crust. as you go deeper and deeper in the ocean you encounter weird ices, Ice 6, Ice 9, etc.

Fascinating places to be sure.

edit on 23-12-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

Frozen water takes up more space that liquid water (why frozen pipes burst), so the pressure would actually keep the core liquid if not heat it up to above boiling point. Then you would get all sorts of interesting convection currents as warm water rises and cold water sinks. Meteorite impacts might have actually given the planet some loosely attached material like gravel at the centre. The planet would be one giant fish tank.

stormcell

JadeStar

CosmicDude

“These planets are unlike anything in our solar system. They have endless oceans,” said lead author Lisa Kaltenegger of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy and the CfA. “There may be life there, but could it be technology-based like ours? Life on these worlds would be under water with no easy access to metals, to electricity, or fire for metallurgy. Nonetheless, these worlds will still be beautiful, blue planets circling an orange star — and maybe life’s inventiveness to get to a technology stage will surprise us.”

www.dailygalaxy.com...

Endless Oceans, in the habitable zone and there may be life. Maybe Kevin Costner is there, lol

edit on 23-12-2013 by CosmicDude because: (no reason given)

Having read the paper, they aren't kidding when they say they are different from anything in our solar system.

Imagine a planet which is almost entirely water.

In other words, no crust. as you go deeper and deeper in the ocean you encounter weird ices, Ice 6, Ice 9, etc.

Fascinating places to be sure.

edit on 23-12-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

Frozen water takes up more space that liquid water (why frozen pipes burst), so the pressure would actually keep the core liquid if not heat it up to above boiling point.

Well you're correct on the temperature but incorrect on the state of water under high temperatures and high pressure as would exist near the core of such a planet.

Yeah, see these exotic ices exist at pressures and temperatures that are astounding. The are not the same as the ice in your refrigerator freezer.

These ices form under high pressures and carry roman numerals like Ice VI (Ice 6), Ice IX (Ice 9) etc.

As you can see here.....

The phase states of water:


These are warm and hot ices.

Ice VII is a cubic crystalline form of ice. It can be formed from liquid water above 3 GPa by lowering its temperature to room temperature, or by decompressing (D2O) ice VI below 95 K. Ordinary water ice is known as ice Ih, (in the Bridgman nomenclature). Different types of ice, from ice II to ice XV, have been created in the laboratory at different temperatures and pressures. Ice VII is metastable over a wide range of temperatures and pressures and transforms into low density amorphous ice (LDA) above 120K. Ice VII has a triple point with liquid water and Ice VI at 355 K and 2.216 GPa, with the melt line extending to at least 715 K and 10 GPa. It can also be created by increasing the pressure on ice VI at ambient temperature.

Scientists hypothesize that Ice VII may comprise the ocean floor of Titan as well as extrasolar planets (such as Gliese 436 b and GJ 1214 b) that are largely made of water.

Some conversion from science units to standard ones people around here might be more familiar with:

Gpa = a Gigapascal is a unit of pressure. 1 = Gpa = the pressure of 9869 Earth atmospheres or 9869 times the pressure of our atmosphere at sea level.

K = Kelvin is a unit of temperature. You probably remember it from high school chemistry lab.

1 degree K = -272.15° C or -457.87° F

D20 = Heavy Water with Deuterium used in the place of Hydrogen. D20 instead of H20. This stuff is likely going to be a fuel source in our future fusion reactors and fusion rockets.

So in the case of Ice VII (Ice 7), at the pressures it can exist it doesn't start melting until it is 755K (481.85° Celsius or 899.33° Fahrenheit)

Lead in comparison melts around 327.5 °C (621.5 °F) at 1 Earth atmosphere or 0.000101325 Gpa.

That's some hot ice!

reply to post by JadeStar


Ahhh.. There the answer to terra forming Mars. Mine the moon for water and send it in. No worry about running out of water with that as the source. How to mine enough of it to make a difference? Perhaps just set up a miner and launch the ice directly. No reason to soft land water..
Yes it's an idea fraught with many issues. But you need water to terraform. If no life there why not use the water to a good purpose?
Feel perfectly fine to shoot this down with reality.

datasdream
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Ahhh.. There the answer to terra forming Mars. Mine the moon for water and send it in. No worry about running out of water with that as the source. How to mine enough of it to make a difference? Perhaps just set up a miner and launch the ice directly. No reason to soft land water..
Yes it's an idea fraught with many issues. But you need water to terraform. If no life there why not use the water to a good purpose?
Feel perfectly fine to shoot this down with reality.

There's more water on Mars than on the moon, it's just frozen in the poles and in permafrost and we think there may be some (no one knows how much) deep underground where temperature and pressure could mean it's liquid. If we're seeing liquid water flowing to the surface causing seasonal changes then there are probably big reservoirs of it if you drill down deep enough.

Just as we drill for oil on earth we could repurposed similar equipment to tap the water on Mars.

If we need any more water than that then there have been ideas to redirect comets and icy asteroids to impact the red planet. We might know how to do this thanks to missions like Stardust and Deep Impact.

If we can pull off towing an asteroid to lunar orbit as planned then this becomes closer to being a viable way to terraform the planet.

It would be cheaper, energy wise to redirect a comet which contains vast amounts of water than trying to bring that same amount of water from the Moon. And there are plenty of cometary objects and icy asteroids in our solar system. Water for ages.

CosmicDude

“These planets are unlike anything in our solar system. They have endless oceans,” said lead author Lisa Kaltenegger of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy and the CfA. “There may be life there, but could it be technology-based like ours? Life on these worlds would be under water with no easy access to metals, to electricity, or fire for metallurgy. Nonetheless, these worlds will still be beautiful, blue planets circling an orange star — and maybe life’s inventiveness to get to a technology stage will surprise us.”

www.dailygalaxy.com...

Endless Oceans, in the habitable zone and there may be life ? .... Maybe Kevin Costner is there, lol

edit on 23-12-2013 by CosmicDude because: (no reason given)

They are not even sure if there is water on Mars, so how do they know there's water on 2 very distant planets..???

douggie60

CosmicDude

“These planets are unlike anything in our solar system. They have endless oceans,” said lead author Lisa Kaltenegger of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy and the CfA. “There may be life there, but could it be technology-based like ours? Life on these worlds would be under water with no easy access to metals, to electricity, or fire for metallurgy. Nonetheless, these worlds will still be beautiful, blue planets circling an orange star — and maybe life’s inventiveness to get to a technology stage will surprise us.”

www.dailygalaxy.com...

Endless Oceans, in the habitable zone and there may be life ? .... Maybe Kevin Costner is there, lol

edit on 23-12-2013 by CosmicDude because: (no reason given)

They are not even sure if there is water on Mars, so how do they know there's water on 2 very distant planets..???

I explained this earlier in the thread and we know there is water on Mars now.

duplicate post.

reply to post by JadeStar


Ok I just have to ask jadestar, you seem extremely knowledgable. Im very interested but havent done tons of research.

Is this an interest or is ghis something more job related?

reply to post by CosmicDude

Cool stuff, however they make a mistake when they assume that the only technology out there possible requires metallurgy, fire, and dirt. If they cant see how a species could not only survive, but adapt, and overcome our own in such a habitat then...Well then that's just weird.

Water is pretty much the building block for carbon based creatures, if anything, and in a way, whatever evolved there, or may possibly be evolving there could be ahead of the curb. h20 can be converted into many types of energy, using all kinds of manner of ways, the human body is nothing but a moving water sack for the most part, without water it is completely unfunctional. So ya I think its quite possible that something can develop societies in there own way which would be comparable to that on earth, or much more advanced in such an environment, literally a water world. However my bet is that if its any kind of "advanced" it has take to the sky's long ago.

reply to post by JadeStar


Ok I just have to ask jadestar, you seem extremely knowledgable. Im very interested but havent done tons of research.

Is this an interest or is ghis something more job related?

inquisitive1977
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Ok I just have to ask jadestar, you seem extremely knowledgable. Im very interested but havent done tons of research.

Is this an interest or is ghis something more job related?

See my signature below my post. I hope it is future job related. For now a lot is coursework.

galadofwarthethird
reply to post by CosmicDude

 

Cool stuff, however they make a mistake when they assume that the only technology out there possible requires metallurgy, fire, and dirt. If they cant see how a species could not only survive, but adapt, and overcome our own in such a habitat then...Well then that's just weird.

Maybe, but you have to admit it would be weirder for there to be a technology species without having ever lived on a solid surface.

The only thing I can think of is somehow them manipulating genes to create stuff made out of bone or other tissues but beyond that??? Can you make an iPhone out of flesh and bone?

Could an Octopus eventually evolve into a technological species without access to land, metal, fire, etc? I'm sure that would take some real imagination to come up with how that could come about but it would be totally weird to us.

Water? That is great, H2O It means dissolved oxygen is there...If there is any equipment to take oxygen from water to lungs then it will be great