The 10,000 year old civilization which was more advanced than us

they would have to have the ability to create weapons grade uranium, which would require electricity, which would require an industrial complex, which would leave behind tangible artifacts.

and

half-life

Originally posted by CaptainRon
Off_the_street,
i think u posted without reading much.
They were propelled by a yellowish orangish fuel, which has been indentified as a compound of mercury.
Everything is well documented out there!!! You just need to lay down ur ego to believe them...

There still exist the PILOT MANUALS called "Saubhika Shastra". Saubhika's were the pilots/cosmonauts.
Secondly, if you haven't read properly, the russians in Gobi dessert found some aeronautical instruments dating back 1000's of years.

And let me tell you a fact,
An indian scientist has successfully developed an glass like material by studying the vimanika shastra, which can render fighter aircraft un detectable. The indian aeronautical institute is already working on this and plan to implement it on their upcomming stealth fighter project which will be made jointly with russia.
Article no. 18 on the page:
www.stephen-knapp.com...

I am an indian and also the author of the Military Aviation website called www.iron-eagles.co.nr , and this was one reason that i have studied this matter so closely.

The chinese ppl found a sanskrit book in Lhasa, which when translated was a COMPLETE DOCUMENT ON ANTI GRAVITY. They are using it on their space program, and have openly admitted on working on anti gravity.

There is a tendency of the west to disregard anything that over shadows their ego.
Anyway, I look forward to some more matured comments on the subject.

thefatlady replies: Hate to burst your bubble, but we already have antigravity craft and they're NOT top secret either. It's more likely the documents you refer to came from time travelers than from an advanced civilization. Could the nuclear holocaust described have been Sodom and Gomorrah? I'm not asking rhetorically, I really want to know, this is not my field.

I do recall back in antiquity when I was young we learnt that the skeletons from Mohenjo-Daro were the most radioactive on earth far outstripping equivalent finds at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The expectation that an advanced culture would create, build, consume, and rubbish things the way our Western civilisation has, is built upon very understandable but mistaken prejudices that include the myth of Progress deriving as it does from Voltaire philosophically and from Darwinian theory scientifically.

Most of the ancient cultures believed they were the devolved survivors of far greater ancestors. And even today in large parts of the world people believe in the Devolution of human beings including the Judaic and Christian view of having lost the Garden of Eden and being thrust out by the Divinity into something much more base and awful.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
I do recall back in antiquity when I was young

we learnt that the skeletons from Mohenjo-Daro were the most radioactive on earth far outstripping equivalent finds at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The area has a number of uranium mines, so it's not unusual. Fossils from the Black Hills (another site with uranium mines) are also quite radioactive.

The expectation that an advanced culture would create, build, consume, and rubbish things the way our Western civilisation has, is built upon very understandable but mistaken prejudices that include the myth of Progress deriving as it does from Voltaire philosophically and from Darwinian theory scientifically.

I think the idea that a group of people walks out of the jungle and suddenly develops an ecological 25th century technology and philosophy is counterintuitive, don't you? You might be able to theorize computers, but you can't build them unless you are able to fabricate things and build houses (like our "clean rooms") where you can control environments tightly.

Any advanced culture comes from generations upon generations of simpler cultures. They'd leave traces... we find traces of Native American tents and brush houses from 3,000 years ago. Finding wooden structures from 15,000 years ago is still possible.

There'd be layer upon layer of traces of earlier civilizations. But we haven't seen any yet.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
I do recall back in antiquity when I was young

we learnt that the skeletons from Mohenjo-Daro were the most radioactive on earth far outstripping equivalent finds at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I hope no-one actually taught you that. As far as I know the skeletons (believed to have belonged to squatters who lived in the ruins of the city, long after it was abandoned*) have never been tested for radiation - it's not what you'd call normal archaeological proceedure today, let alone in the 1920s .....

* see, for example www.adventurecorps.com...

If this has been mentioned, my apologies, I don't have time to read the entire 8-page thread at work.

I'm quite interested by the fact that vimanas are said to have used a mercury engine (why the languages the Ramayana and Mahabharata were written in - sanskrit? memory fails! - need a word for "engine" is beyond me, as well as words that mean 1 millionth of a second and 311 trillion years).

See this for a description of the vimana + engine:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

For a description of NASA's mercury ion engine used on Deep Space 1:

science.nasa.gov...

And just for kicks (sorry about the tacky-appearance, I have read this information in several places, and this was the first one I could find):

www.augustmystery.com...


I'd say someone knew something they weren't telling, but it looks like they did tell.

Unfortunately, the studies of these ancient civilizations from a skeptic and academic point of views hinders the revelation of how advanced these old cultures can be or was.

I agree that they were much more advanced than we like to believe. Our pride and vanity blind us from objectively seeing the ancient drawing and texts. Sky charriots are interpreted as metaphors, etc.

Sadness.

Howdy Chickeneaster

The biggest problem facing the search for an unknown civilization isn't the people searching for it or their methodology (not many are actually searching for it as money tends to go to more conventional ideas) but the lack of evidence.

Wishful thinking aside, it's the evidence (the lack of it) which drives this subject.

Once a discovery is confirmed money and expertise will pour in.

reply to post by Off_The_Street


Mohenjo-Daro? No HARD evidence?? Wait a minute this says your an expert .. OK well I'll just assume that you just don't do your research.
So smart guy if there is no hard evidence, Please , show me how you can have naturally occuring radioactive glass?
Ohh sorry you can't.
Do you want to know why? Well I'll tell ya anyway. You see Robert Oppenheimer and the Trinity tests prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that this glass found in India could have only been formed during a nuclear blast! It was not little tiny spheres, but huge chunks sometimes 2 feet thick. I won't even get into the bodies they found with radioactive contamination level 50 times higher that are found in nature. Holy $%^$! BUCK UP SON...Expert pshh!

Originally posted by untouchable
reply to post by Off_The_Street

 

Mohenjo-Daro? No HARD evidence?? Wait a minute this says your an expert

.. OK well I'll just assume that you just don't do your research.
So smart guy if there is no hard evidence, Please , show me how you can have naturally occuring radioactive glass?
Ohh sorry you can't.
Do you want to know why? Well I'll tell ya anyway. You see Robert Oppenheimer and the Trinity tests prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that this glass found in India could have only been formed during a nuclear blast! It was not little tiny spheres, but huge chunks sometimes 2 feet thick. I won't even get into the bodies they found with radioactive contamination level 50 times higher that are found in nature. Holy $%^$! BUCK UP SON...Expert pshh!

Back this up with sources please, or you don't have any hard evidence either.

Books like FINGERPRINTS OF THE GODS and the like can paint pretty convincing pictures. although i never actually made it all the way through that one its like three inches thick!

applying the but rule.. i don't believe in advanced ancient races based on that.

I apply assumptions towards the possibility like perhaps they didn't burn their scientists at the stake for heresy for a millennium or more.. just take a look at how much we have accomplished in the last hundred years. many of these civilizations lasted for who knows how long? in such a circumstance an advanced civilization would also know how to clean up their mess for the lessor idiots left behind. ignoring the rest but being a bible reader. the story of the city of Enoch ascending into the heavens is a possibility i put in the afore mentioned possibilities. can't prove it, but i cant help but wonder.

Fringe writers like to exploit the Libyan/Egyptian glass that was probably formed when a meteorite exploded about 28 million years ago. There are also slightly radioactive skeletons found at several sites but that is usually attributed to their having lived and been buried in areas with naturally occuring radiation.

It's always a good rule of thumb to check anything that comes out of books written fringy non-experts, for non-experts and not peer reviewed (checked for errors) regarding claims. Heck it's a good idea to double check any unusual claim no matter who presents it.

I recently read abook called "Fingerprints of the Gods" by Graham Hancock. He makes apretty good argument for the existence of an ancient civilization based on maps that are thousands of years old that show Antarctica's shorelines with no ice. We know that they have been covered by ice for thousands of years, so how did a map show up in the 15th century of it without ice?

I think he makes some good points but I'd like a lot more evidence before I say it is true.

I believe that Einstein once said 'I don't know how WW3 will be fought, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones'. Could he have been talking about some re-occurring 'stone age' as the OP mentioned?

Howdy cw0203

Hancock was talking about the Piri Peis map, unfortunately he misrepresent the map. Hancocks books are vacuous at best. I would recommend the book ‘The Piri Reis Map of 1513' by Gregory C. McIntosh who does an exhaustive study of the Turkish map.

It’s main feature, land stretching out from South American, when superimposed on a map doesn’t reflect the reality of the relationship between SA and Antarctic. He also failed to read the comments on the map itself which explain where it comes from.

This is what is written on the Piri Reis map itself

“This section describes the way in which this map was executed. No such map existed in our time. Your humble servant is its author and brought it into being. It is based mainly on twenty charts and mappae mundi, one of which was drawn in the time of Alexander the Great, and is known to the Arabs as Caferiye. This map is the results of comparison with eight such Caferiye maps, one Arab map of India and China and also the map of the western land drawn by Columbus; such that this map of the seven seas is as accurate and reliable as the latter map of this region.’

www.prep.mcneese.edu...

Comparison of real map and Piri Reis




Source of the above

www.uwgb.edu...

Hello Quintar

He was making a comment on the destructiveness of Nukes. I’m not sure if Einstein dwelt with archaeology and such subjects

I'd like to make some comments on this idea.
First off, how many among you here actually think wtc7 fell without help? (this is relevant). Me I'm quite convinced it was blown up, and quite convinced this is PLAINLY OBVIOUS and yet it is completely ignored by the media. How is this relevant?
well I want to give you some possible reasons why your arguments of "where are the artifacts" do not stand up as disproof of ancient civilizations, and part of it is based on a deliberate covering up of that (possible) fact

I make the assumption that a past civilization likely followed our current one in that most large cities where near the sea. Next I point out that according to thissea level link, sea level has risen over a hundred meters since ~1200 bc, parts like melt water pulse 1A occurring VERY quickly (flood legend anyone?)

so most large ancient cities are likely underwater (if they exist). (look up Bimini and Japanese underwater stone "structures" for possible examples of this)

next two assumptions made by most skeptics in this thread seems to be
1) this past civilisation was the same as ours in terms of development and

2) the tech was spread amongst all people as in ours (im not saying our society is equal, but I'm an average bum typing on a piece of tech which would have been impossible for anyone to make (as far as I know) 30 years ago...)


Planes and nuclear bombs where available in the late forties. Given the right societal control, power and motivation, they could have been a reality decades earlier, and given the right stratification of society, most of society could have been living at a poor persons 1800's or earlier level while the elites developed crude nuclear weapons ESPECIALLY if they had even more ancient documents telling them it was possible, and perhaps providing a few pointers

some interesting points: Why did they have to invent plastic to invent planes and nuclear bombs? planes can be made of wood if need be, certainly from other materials (and were invented long before plastic, as was the idea for nuclear energy) Plastic is so useful to us mainly because we are an oil based society. Given how much oil was in the ground a century or two ago, I would doubt that any previous society had used it extensively... (and this is interesting too: part of why we our society has developed so fast and expanded so quickly is due to energy( oil/coal). without those, perhaps ordinary people would still be driving horse carts while the elites play with expensive solar cells and hydroelectricity...


number 2 is the point that relates to 9/11. I'm becoming more and more sure the more research I do that the Illuminati, or an equivalent other group(s) exist, and that "they" have much control over worldwide media and even scientific research. If this group can make a NY skyscraper disappear from the news on a day when the whole world is watching that exact city block, then how hard is it to silence discoverers of interesting (non standard history conforming) artifacts? I have seen it quite often with myself, where I read up on a controversial issue, and for quite a while I'll be convinced I've seen both sides of the issue and am either undecided or think its baloney, then one day I will read the ACTUAL issue/details and realise just how much of what I've read has been a smokescreen and deliberate misinformation. Now I agree with some skeptics in that not everyone can be deliberate disinformation artists, so much of this misinformation, while deliberate, is not deliberate on the part of the authors, but they have been deliberately manipulated by someone into thinking they are telling the truth.

ok enough randomblabbing on. summary next post

You guys Should read the Mithra Bible another Relegion Based on half animal Half human beings.Cat like Gods much like egypts Cat and Dog God's.

But from around 10,000 BC to 15,000 BC and one of the earliest recordings of written word.

The Atlas Map is a Good Picture as well.

Clearly there was a World History Wipe Long ago.
And Clearly People in those Times were Clearly Well written and Draw in Gold Leaf Metalogy Techniques Electro Plating.

Anyways This should Help because this Bible was written the time period you are studying.

slightly shorter summary:
- most advanced cities would be underwater (see Bimini and Japanese discoveries for possible examples)

- Societal structure could be COMPLETELY different. eg very powerfull, secretive small group of elites acting like gods/religious cult leaders and large illiterate poor population living primitively basically as slaves (and therefore not leaving any tech relics).

- any nuclear war would deliberately target the more advanced places, leaving only the less advanced towns/villages for us to find

- perhaps they had ancient documents from previous societies to help speed development while not creating all the noticeable waste we made during our development

- Since I am taking some of the myth as fact for this thought experiment, perhaps the myths re nibiru etc had some basis in fact, and the technologically advanced group where from another planet in our solar system (hence they had tech somewhere in the 1970 - 2050ish range

- IF they existed then powerful groups such as governments, churches would know about it and try to keep any discoveries secret (ie if they had advanced tech such as antigrav or fusion, then the government and black ops groups would want to keep it to themselves. The roman catholic church (and many others) would want to keep it secret for obvious reasons (the gods (note the s) are aliens? )

- not only could the tech (and literacy etc) have been limited to small groups of elites, but theres no reason at all to assume the same tech time line as us. eg: plastic didn't come into public use till after atomic bombs and planes were developed, so theres definitely no reason to assume they created any. and who says they couldn't skip certain developments and skip straight to later ones (or stumble on to different more complete laws of physics that allow interesting tech we cant currently create (or think is impossible))

an example of what I mean is given by Tesla. He had a working remote controlled boat more than 100 years ago. now given the right funding/help tesla could have created a remote controlled missile 100 years ago, yet, most of the rest of the world was still riding horses and donkeys (if they could afford them) and living without any electricity. How out of place would a reomote controlled missile have been amongst the remains of a 100 year ago african village? what if atlantis and an indian equivalent was the main place all this tech was developed, the rest of the world being kept as a poorer equivalent to our third world?

www.youtube.com...

ill get the Atlas Map made from gold dated 10,000 BC I forget the name ill find it in a bit.

If you believe that people actually thought the world was flat after looking at the sun and the Moon clearly they would see there not on a flat plane.

These maps are 1500-2500 yrs old.
The Atlas map is 10,000 BC Dated



Man Charted And Mapped Both Poles long ago and printed it on a Gold Paper With Dark etchings a Beutiful Map and Some Sort of Electro Plating Had to have been used to Create this Map

[edit on 19-9-2007 by infamouskiller]

Very interesting post, but after spending a good half hour reading it all, I somehow feel like I just read "Chariots of the Gods" again.
Von Donniken, are you posting on ATS now?