It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by soficrow
.Can someone PLEASE fix these margins? (please? ) This is a great discussion but it's killing me to read it....
So Byrd, with or without 'technological advance,' consider that our predecessors may have been very wise, and educated in the ways of the world.
They understood the 'enemy,' the dynamics of individual, social and cultural development, and worked with skill to better the human species.
I suspect you are focusing exclusively on the appropriated and pathogenic permutations of ancient traditions - not that these are not real, but a bit of 'mining' might find gold. Ie., Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Originally posted by CaptainRon
There's just one starship-sized hole in this concept, though: it assumes that humans went from wandering around the landscape in groups, knapping flints to a non-detectable society that was suddenly advanced beyond anything seen before in the space of a heartbeat.
That, frankly, isn't believable.
Well in that case... ask ur grand dad (if alive yet) or else dad that what he was used to when he was 10 yr oldand what's the world like now, for him...? Even in our case its like the cave women...
Dude... timeline has been very long comprising of thousands of years!
what makes you think that out of 10,000 years this recent 100 years were all that man got civilised in
Originally posted by sisonek
One last thing, though: if someone's claiming they've found similarities between ancient Indian and ancient Mayan (I'll even expand this to ancient Meso and South-American) architecture, what similarities would they be likely to have found? Anyone know of anything similar between the two places? (I'm not saying I think there's Maya/India cross-pollination back in prehistory; I'm just curious what similarities someone might think they've run across). Anyone know?
Originally posted by sisonek
Byrd: I'm going to cut you and CaptainRon some slack here.
If there was another technologically advanced civilization -- like, at or above our level -- it'd have to have been a lot longer ago (maybe 100,000 or more years) for all the traces to have disappeared like they have.
One last thing, though: if someone's claiming they've found similarities between ancient Indian and ancient Mayan (I'll even expand this to ancient Meso and South-American) architecture, what similarities would they be likely to have found? Anyone know of anything similar between the two places? (I'm not saying I think there's Maya/India cross-pollination back in prehistory; I'm just curious what similarities someone might think they've run across). Anyone know?
Originally posted by Byrd
What browser are you using and what screen resolution?
Actually, I probably give them a LOT more credit than most do.
But I see no evidence in linguistics, art, etc, etc, etc that there was a "more advanced" civilization before the ones we see developing some 30,000 years ago.
They understood the 'enemy,' the dynamics of individual, social and cultural development, and worked with skill to better the human species.
They had no concept of "the human species" -- or so we judge from our studies of currently living civilizations.
I suspect you are focusing exclusively on the appropriated and pathogenic permutations of ancient traditions - not that these are not real, but a bit of 'mining' might find gold.
Don't think so, but I can certainly be challenged. I know a fair bit about a number of topics.
Originally posted by CaptainRon
I would like to point out some facts:
(90% of all this comes from the Ancient Indian Scriptures)
There were 7 "Rishi" cities on this planet during the Rama Empire i.e. around 10,000 years back.
These cities naturally included that of Mohan Jodaro, Harrappa,
The Mohan Jodaro was much more well planned than 95% cities in pakistan and india as of today.
We have the old scriptures still with us
Aviation technology is some of the most well explained scientific developments of the earlier times.
You even find diagrams and procedure on how to make an aeroplane that would be propelled by "Anti-Gravity".
EVentually what happens is that the science is long forgotten
and those few who retain it, are known as black magicians, sorcerrors and
A truth that has been well documented in sanskrit text
Davenport claimed to
have proof that Mohenjo Daro, one of the oldest cities in the history of human civilization,
had been destroyed by an atomic bomb. Davenport shows that the ruined site known as the
place of death by archaeologists was not formed by gradual decay.
Originally Mohenjo Daro, which is more than 5000 years old, lay on two islands in the Indus.
Within a radius of 1.5 km Davenport demonstrates three different degrees of devastation
which spread from the center outwards. Enormous heat unleashed total destruction at the
center. Thousands of lumps, christened �black stones� by archaeologists, turned out to be
fragments of clay vessels which had melted into each other in the extreme heat.
as if the living had been suddenly overcome by an
unexpected catastrophe.
there can be no research by enlarged teams with physicists, chemists, metallurgists, etc.
the WTC were reduced down to a pile of dust by two airliners...
a nuclear winter will last for years
There is a tendency of the west to disregard anything that over shadows their ego.
I have grown up learning that the scriptures that I have been reading have been written as long as 10,000 years back!
chakotay
But what will remain of those iron ships in 11,000 years
www.thewjc.org...
I am not going to discuss Einstein's theories since science is not my strong suit.
the accuracy of dating methods are being called into account now
I don't think that all the archaeological sites have radiometric dates to them. And what are the specific instances that you had trouble getting reliable radiometric data? Were far too recent samples used, or were good samples sent in with completely different 'ballpark dates' and then you got those ballpark dates? Also, if radiometric dating is totally unreliable, then there wouldn't be agreement between methods, and there wouldn't be any sort of systematic relationships between sites. The only way to get the current 'system' then with unrelaible radiometric data, would be for some sort of conspiracy to be controlling it all.
cap ron
I don't believe that anything would have been left of Hiroshima or Nagasaki if it was left as it is for another 200 years... you wouldn't see a single darn sign that anything existed
Then why does one see anything left from harrapa and mohenjo daro? And making them thousands of years older than they actually were only increases this problem.
Can anyone explain me how could the people existing 1000s of years back having 'no scientific knowledge' could describe the effects of a Nuclear explosion?
But they don't do that. They don't talk about radionuclides, radiation, or any of that. What you have is people talking about an explosion and people charred. Nothing about that says nuke attack more than 'fire'.
Not being able to find its traces is not an excuse... can i have an intelligent reason?
Not being able to find traces of it is the only reason to think that they were advanced, notice, weren't advnaced, not that they were incapable of thinking. There is no evidence for the massive world system that would be required to make anyof this. There is evidence of small tribes living in extremely primtive 'cities' 10-11000 years ago, and, again, harrapan and mohenjo-daro aren't one of them. Those are much more advanced cities that existed thousands of years later.
[qote]The author/editor provides us with a translation of ancient texts from India
Unacceptable. Where are the actual primary sources for these claims. Supposed translations supposedly demonstrating something are useless. Where are the actual original texts that this author was refering to?
what makes you think that out of 10,000 years this recent 100 years were all that man got civilised in.
He is saying that, even now, there is a progression from one technology to another. Even this modern world with its rapid pace of technological advancement came out of a less advanced world, whereas the insertion of a super advanced society into 10,000 years ago requires an instant jump from complete 'savagery' into futuristic technology, far beyond anything that is reasonable to suppose.
Can anyone tell me how could the rishi's could make such medicines without having advanced chemical and pharmaceutical knowledge?
Probably the same way cultures all over the world have done it. One doesn't need to know the chemical structure of the various compounds in a plant to know that it will have one affect or the other.
Laghima ( the art of levitating ) also comes from here
And yet, people can't levitate.
Originally posted by Arkaleus
The events surrounding the "nuclear war" sound suspiciously like airbursts from comets or meteorites. They explode with the force of several megatons, more than enough to vaporize cities. Take for example the Tunguska blast of 1908. It could easily have been written of in the Vedas as the "fiery bolts of Shiva decimating cities and men," or other such manifestations of deity. Food for thought.
Originally posted by Arkaleus/Chakotay
The reference to 'iron arrows' could be found meteorite fragments.
dsc.discovery.com...
An international team of scientists has discovered the largest impact crater field ever found on Earth, uncovering the first evidence that the planet suffered from simultaneous meteor impacts in the recent past.
� It could have been created by the fragmentation of several meteorites that encountered the Earth atmosphere. � ..."The impact origin is confirmed by the observation of shock-related structures, such as shatter cones and planar fractures in quartz grains of breccia," the researchers wrote in a paper published in the journal C.R. Geoscience.
Paillou estimated that the field is roughly 50 million years old � relatively young in geological terms. Most of all, it is the result of simultaneous impacts. (13 craters) ...Spreading over 4,500 square kilometers (1,750 square miles) near the Gilf Kebir plateau, the craters are up to 80 meters (260 feet) deep and vary in diameter from 20 meters (66 feet) to 12.5 kilometers (7.8 miles) across.
... Only nine impact fields are actually known on Earth. ..."All known crater fields on Earth do not extend over more than 60 square kilometers (23 square miles) and can all be explained by the breakup of a single meteorite," Paillou and colleagues wrote.
"Impacts fields are quite rare on Earth due to the important, different and multiple erosion processes occurring on the Earth surface," said Heggy.
Originally posted by soficrow
Originally posted by Arkaleus/Chakotay
The reference to 'iron arrows' could be found meteorite fragments.
...Great points everyone.
True, the conflagrations could be meteors, but the opposite also could be true. Consider the following news release:
Using orbital imaging radar, scientists have discovered the largest impact crater field ever found on Earth. It's composed of 13 craters created by simultaneous impacts. The field is still partially buried beneath the sands of the southwestern Egyptian desert, and is dated to 50 million years ago. Impact craters are rarely found on the earth's surface, due to multiple and different erosion processes.
dsc.discovery.com...
An international team of scientists has discovered the largest impact crater field ever found on Earth, uncovering the first evidence that the planet suffered from simultaneous meteor impacts in the recent past.
� It could have been created by the fragmentation of several meteorites that encountered the Earth atmosphere. � ..."The impact origin is confirmed by the observation of shock-related structures, such as shatter cones and planar fractures in quartz grains of breccia," the researchers wrote in a paper published in the journal C.R. Geoscience.
Paillou estimated that the field is roughly 50 million years old � relatively young in geological terms. Most of all, it is the result of simultaneous impacts. (13 craters) ...Spreading over 4,500 square kilometers (1,750 square miles) near the Gilf Kebir plateau, the craters are up to 80 meters (260 feet) deep and vary in diameter from 20 meters (66 feet) to 12.5 kilometers (7.8 miles) across.
... Only nine impact fields are actually known on Earth. ..."All known crater fields on Earth do not extend over more than 60 square kilometers (23 square miles) and can all be explained by the breakup of a single meteorite," Paillou and colleagues wrote.
"Impacts fields are quite rare on Earth due to the important, different and multiple erosion processes occurring on the Earth surface," said Heggy.
There is no doubt that the earth is vulnerable to meteors striking the planet's surface - or that such impacts would cause this kind of damage.
However, WMD's also cause this kind of destruction. Can scientists really confirm absolutely, 50 million years later, exactly what kind of missile created these craters?
All the world's traditions are rife with stories of advanced civilizations, chimeras and the like, and warnings about cycles of advancement and destruction. ...If these stories originate from a 'super civilization' that dates back 50 million years, we have no way to place them in an accurate timeframe - and no pysical evidence to confirm or deny the possiblity.
...We assume that archeological evidence is (relatively) complete - despite the fact that each decade routinely brings radical changes and modifications to evolutionary history. We also assume it is simply impossible that technologically advanced human history could date back that far - but could these assumptions not be the product of ignorant bias?
Perhaps, if we acknowledged the possibility, then the consequences of human action might be better understood, and appropriate caution would follow.
Comments?
.
But FYI - I am well aware that humans were not 'in existence' 50 million years ago. ...I also was taught in Grade school that the world formed maybe a million years ago, that there was only one ice age, and that no one would remove oil, gas and water from under the earth if it could have a bad effect.
So where is the evidence of radiation or steel which doesn't simply just disapear overtime. We have been able to find clay pots, arrowheads, and bows dating 10,000-20,000 years ago, are we to assume that everything this ancient and far superior society had vanished as they were completly nuked? If so, then they must have been attacked by another far superior civilization, so what happend to them? Why did nobody bother to progress upon their work when they vanished?
Originally posted by Byrd
Eeek! You need to go back and have those science teachers fired! Earth is six billion (not million) years old, actually. There've been multiple ice ages. But you're right that humans weren't in existence 50 million years ago. The first of the hominid "homo" species appeared a little over 2 million years ago (homo habilis.)