Is the Universe Moving?

We know that the universe is composed of many moving objects such as stars, planets, galaxies, black holes, etc. that continually appear to be in motion. But is the universe itself also moving or is it some sort of frozen and immovable thing? Is the universe itself in a fixed and immovable place?

reply to post by AlienView


considering we don't know where the edges/ends are, and moving in relation to what? no-one can answer that one for you

That's the major question, if the universe is finite or infinite it will tell us exactly what it's doing, but without being able to see whats beyond it, or past the edges, or have a ten billion or so year reference in various parts of time & space, it's really hard to tell.

www.esa.int...

reply to post by AlienView


Hi!

It is only my belief and a musing because we do not really know:

I think of it as a never ending void. It is literally eternal and never ending. All the Heavenly bodies are in constant motion and change drifting through the void.

I think matter started from a single point. May be something like the big bang (though may be it was not a bang as such). May be there is a centre of the Universe? May be matter is still being generated there and it is all flowing outwards in the eternal void?

Then I am a person who believes in the Intelligence of the Creator. As eternal as the void of space is so is the Intelligence that set it into being; Alpha and Omega.

To answer my own question as I think about it, the theories that the universe is expanding and/or contracting would indicate that it is also moving. But I might still wonder if the universe could have any other movement or direction
- or is it in a fixed dimension?

Your question doesn't really have an answer imo. If the universe is finite then it means that our universe is like a bubble of space-time floating in some sort of void. But our concept of motion depends entirely on the idea of an object traveling through space-time, so the question becomes: can something move through a void which contains no time or space? And that is quite an odd question which seems difficult to answer.

On the other hand, if the universe is infinite then it means that there is no end to space-time. And if space-time is endless then it can't really be imagined as if it were a finite object capable of moving, because it encompass everything.

AlienView
To answer my own question as I think about it, the theories that the universe is expanding and/or contracting would indicate that it is also moving. But I might still wonder if the universe could have any other movement or direction
- or is it in a fixed dimension?

Most of the current data suggests that the universe is probably infinite, but that does not mean it cannot expand, infinite space can have more space added to it. You also need to think more carefully about what you mean when you ask if the universe is "moving". Expansion is not the same thing as motion, expansion is the stretching of space to add more space to the universe. And if the universe is finite then it means that space-time is expanding into a void, but it doesn't have to be "moving".

reply to post by AlienView


Just as an after thought I was just inspired by your post to get the old imagination going:

Consider that as big as it gets it also gets smaller in the same way.

The very components of matter (like the atom) are also vastly huge structures compared to what is enclosed in the atom's structure.

If we could see smaller then we would keep finding new particles, like a whole universe even in an electron. It is my theory that it never stops getting smaller; how can it when one thinks about it?

Such ideas then get me looking into Quantum explanations. Matter is generated and programmed in my opinion and earthly physics cannot explain it. Eternity cannot really be explained in human concepts.

I think we are a three dimensional painting and it is not actually possible for us to see beyond our dimensional scope. An Intelligence designed this Universe of matter. We are an extension of the Creator's consciousness; "He made man in His own image" so say the Prophets of old.

Yes, the universe is moving in it's scale dimmension.

The universe is infinite. To confine it, is to imply a barrier, which implies yet another thing. Or, after it ends, there is something else. Which would be... ? more..

so infinite. A container isn't something that stops being something at any point, it itself is contained within something.

As Chaotic said, if it is infinite, then it can be though of as finite because it would be all of everything.

Man these things make me wish I could step outside and take a peek. stupid reality.

In a way, it could be moving, or growing, or expanding, or rolling in on itself continuously. But if it is moving, then it is moving in something. which then takes us back to what.

are we the ocean or the sky.. either way we are contained in something, but what. or are we just everything in which case, movement is not really important.

Would we be able to see the end of the universe if space was bright and not dark? Could the creator be the architect like in the matrix and we are the creators program. DNA has been found to contain computer code so it does make it plausible that we are simulation from the creators imagination.

Can't really say about the universe, but it's been found that galaxies in the universe are moving--most often away from each other as seen by their red and blue shifts.

reply to post by AlienView


The universe could be moving, but there is no way of knowing for sure because there is no point of reference to calculate the speed.

However there was a theory floating around that our universe was created by the collision of two universes (called branes). And if these universes did collide that would imply that universes do move, but it's a theory for now.

I couldn't dig up much about the theory but I did find this-

A geometrical analysis is given of Dirichlet fourbrane creation, when sixbrane crosses fivebrane in M-theory. A special property of the Taub-NUT space leads to the consequence. When brane configurations are considered for four dimensional N=2 field theories, sixbrane contributes to the beta-function through the Dirac string of the Taub-NUT space.

arxiv.org

I hope that helps. Actually I don't, I just wanted to boggle your mind

Perhaps our universe in one of many floating in a master void. That would imply that there must be an edge or limit on the size of our universe. Only those intelligences poised at the edge of void could have any viable theories. Imagine what could seen from there. One view could be looking at the entire universe while the other direction could be an apparently endless void.
That poses a question "What kind of physical laws could be applied in the master void?".

reply to post by Sk8ergrl

Would we be able to see the end of the universe if space was bright and not dark?

Who says it's dark? We simply cannot know.
The estimated age of the universe is older than the time it would take light at light speed (of course) to reach us from the further reaches of the universe.

reply to post by AlienView


If you believe in the parallel reality theory of quantum physics, then no, the universe is completely still and dead and it is our consciousness that shifts through the parallel realities giving an illusion of 'time' and 'movement'.


If you believe that parallel realities are just 'potentials' and only THIS, only the here and now of THIS reality exists, then the universe is moving and consciousness is completely still. This would also mean there is no free-will, reality including thoughts and emotions changes around us (consciousness).

Sk8ergrl
Would we be able to see the end of the universe if space was bright and not dark? Could the creator be the architect like in the matrix and we are the creators program. DNA has been found to contain computer code so it does make it plausible that we are simulation from the creators imagination.

I'm very interested in this angle, too.

Everything that was needed to bring about the genesis of the universe was set in motion the instant that matter came into being.

Did all matter and energy burst through from something that may even have been like a pin prick in infinity; the fusion of a density so compacted being placed into the void of infinity that its only reaction could be that of a continuing pouring fourth of matter ever expanding outwards? May be there is still a source pouring this stuff of the universe out?

The concept of black holes is strange enough to make the birth place of matter a possibility.

I love marvelling on these notions. When I consider the miracle that the universe is and that each of us is as a conscious being able to reflect the universe in our consciousness I am blown away with humility and wonder.

reply to post by AlienView


The Universe is a function of our mind and comprehension.

I believe that what we discover with our technology (Hubble telescope, etc) are newly added features of the Universe. There is simply nothing there until we have the technology or the speculative ability; then something gets added.

In very ancient days, it was believed that the sky was like a roof; you could get up there and touch it, if only you could build a high tower (eg Babel ). Then we built telescopes and greek philosophers came along. The Universe expanded accordingly.

The more we have tools and technology , the more the Universe will expand - both outwards and inwards. We can see the the inner Universe with powerful microscopes and the limits are a function of the power of our microscopes. There is probably nothing beyond what they can see but once magnifying power is increased a new expansion will come into shape. This is the universal law which prevents a scenario of looking at a complete blank. It just cannot happen or we would cease to exist in a flash.

Therefore my argument : The size of the universe is a function of the scope of our mind.

As for the Universe moving , we are getting into the realm of :"Is each individual a Universe ?". i am not getting into that discussion for now

arpgme
reply to post by AlienView

 

If you believe in the parallel reality theory of quantum physics, then no, the universe is completely still and dead and it is our consciousness that shifts through the parallel realities giving an illusion of 'time' and 'movement'.


If you believe that parallel realities are just 'potentials' and only THIS, only the here and now of THIS reality exists, then the universe is moving and consciousness is completely still. This would also mean there is no free-will, reality including thoughts and emotions changes around us (consciousness).

Science is all about observation. We can observe it according to Einstein's model or a modern Quantum Physicist's model. Both reveal patterns and behaviour of matter according to a pre determined and unchangeable rule.

Perhaps we can never really KNOW, but only observe and construct meaning based on our observations. We are limited to a human perception and it only makes sense in terms of the codes and frequencies our senses can register.

If we were allowed to continue in our human development imagine how the Science of today will be viewed in three thousand years? I dare say it will look like the stone age to such observers.

Our perception seems to change and collect data, ever moving supposedly forward, but is this perhaps an infinite task because we are conscious in an infinite dimension?

reply to post by Revolution9

Revolution9
Science is all about observation. We can observe it according to Einstein's model or a modern Quantum Physicist's model. Both reveal patterns and behaviour of matter according to a pre determined and unchangeable rule.

Quantum Physics does not talking about a pre-determined or unchangeable rule, that's why the uncertainty principle exist; however, you are right. This can be a 3rd probability, that there is no free-will even if there is randomness and we are controlled by chaos (how ironic).