Did GLAAD mess with the wrong duck? Could this be a tipping point in the culture wars?

BlueMoonJoe
Again, no. You just can't redefine terms to the point to where they lose their meaning. Both sides have their agendas, certainly, but both are not PC. The reason PC/cultural marxism exists is to tear down the dominant culture that the right seeks to maintain. Calling them both PC is therefore incorrect.

I'm one black kettle; thanks, pot.

Political correctness stems from a backlash on negative social stigmas which have been attached to labelled groups who have little-to-no control over the criteria they are judged on. People became more aware of these stigmas through inependant groups and general social activity. The government has had very little to do with it up until recently. You could claim it's all been a huge conspiracy orchestrated by the government to instill some weir pseudo-communist belief system on the people -- I have yet to see any real evidence that would back that up at all. Obviously society has taken it a little above and beyond being respectful and polite to one another and that's become something of an issue to certain people, but claiming that it's destroying the country is parrotted sensationalism at best.

And calling this cultural marxism is an obvious attempt at creating a misnomer; acceptance and tolerance are not exclusively marxist behavioural traits.

reply to post by Gryphon66


It is a pejorative term, but it is pointing to something that is very real, cultural marxism, which comes out of the Frankfurt School. These aren't just empty phrases and they aren't just knee jerk responses to equal treatment. The notions of hate speech and multiculturalism are trojan horses. They seem so benign, but they are anything but.

No matter how you slice it, in this particular case, nothing the guy said was actual hate speech. He didn’t call for any negative treatment, no exclusion, no loss of rights, no violence, no nothing of the kind. He said he didn’t approve based on his religious beliefs but would not judge the person but would love them like anyone else.

But as you can see by the responses, none of that matters. He’s a hateful bigot because he isn’t being completely accepting. And when you can label anything short of total acceptance hate speech, then you are assuring divisiveness because its a bar nobody can meet. What’s worse, it’s a bar that only certain folks are held to while the rest get a free pass no matter how extreme their speech or actions.

Multiculturalism seems like a great idea on the surface, but when it is used as a way to destroy the dominant culture it isn’t the benign and wonderful notion some folks would have you believe it to be. When elementary school kids are told they cannot use Christ or Christmas on the Christmas cards they are sending to the troops or any of the other myriad examples of that war on Christmas many folks insist isn’t happening, what is the upside?

We certainly are being divided and conquered, but you can’t just dismiss the means of doing so by dismissing them as empty and malicious rhetoric. Who do you feel is doing the dividing and conquering if not the folks who set out to do just that and were totally upfront about their desire to topple the dominant culture?

reply to post by TheRegal


If you want to pick out a particular point or two and firm them up, I'll respond, but as it is, this is just word salad.

The Frankfurt School conspiracy theory which originates in Lyndon LaRouche literature from the early 1990s has since been taken up by various fringe groups like the white nationalist Council of Conservative Citizens and others like Pat Buchanan, William Lind at the Free Congress Foundation, the late Andrew Breitbart and more recently in the 1500 page manifesto of Anders Breivik, the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks.

I would encourage anyone interested in pursuing what the idea promotes to get a simplistic introduction with a list of further references for review at Wikipedia, with additional information at the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the Society for US Intellectual History.

It is possible, I imagine, that there is a secret group of Jewish intellectuals who have infiltrated all aspects of American life with the sole intention of destroying all that we hold dear. We should weigh the available evidence while avoiding jumping to paranoid and simplistic explanations for all of our cultural ills, particularly when those explanations invoke only shadowy, non-specified figures, and are projected onto any and all concepts, theories, political positions, that are not based in mere fear-mongering.

Are there genuine Marxists in the world? Of course. Are some on the staff at Columbia University? Probably. Are all attempts at multiculturalism and reductions of hateful speech coordinated by a vast underground dedicated to the destruction of America?

For that there is no reasonable, credible evidence, in my opinion. Do the research and find out for yourself.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


I certainly left it open for discussion by saying this:

You could claim it's all been a huge conspiracy orchestrated by the government to instill some weir pseudo-communist belief system on the people -- I have yet to see any real evidence that would back that up at all

Also I have several points in there that could be argued, so calling it "word salad" is something I'm just going to have to take as an admission of defeat on your previous statements.

reply to post by butcherguy

butcherguy
Sure, GLAAD was offended, but who was injured?

I didn't say anyone was injured... I understand your point perfectly.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe

BlueMoonJoe

While you could certainly make a case for the crc having an agenda, there's no way you can accurately call it PC as they are diametrically opposed.

If you don't think the CRC is wrapped up in PC-ness.
1. Wish a Conservative Christian a "Happy Holiday"...
2. Let two gay guys have a little kiss in the local donut shop...
3. Put up a pro-atheist billboard.
4. Remove crosses or the Ten Commandments from a government property.

You'll see a Christian Political Correctness EXPLOSION!

Political Correctness: the idea that people should be careful to not use language or behave in a way that could offend a particular group of people

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The term "Politically Correct is just a derogatory term for being respectful, compassionate and considerate of other people and their position in life. Of course, it can be taken too far, but surely, what Phil Robertson said is clearly NOT respectful, compassionate or considerate of gay people.

Here's his advice to gay people:

“So what is your safest course of action?” he asked. “If you’re a man, find yourself a woman, marry them and keep your sex right there. … You can have fun, but one thing is for sure, as long as you are both healthy in the first place, you are not going to catch some debilitating illness. There is safety there.”

This statement and what he originally said in the interview are VERY disrespectful of a group of people, so naturally, GLAAD was offended.

Source

reply to post by TheRegal


The constitution protects our rights from any entity that violates our rights. This includes broadcast companies.

Often conservatives try to narrow the fed gov's role in protecting our rights in order to protect legal entities from being prosecuted for violating our rights.

reply to post by TheRegal


Christian conservatives aren't out to protect white people, only white Christian conservatives.

They tend to look at white liberals, true liberals, as dirty hippies, whose life styles violate the rights of Christian conservatives, in their PC point view.

reply to post by TheRegal



BlueMoonJoe

The reason PC/cultural marxism exists is to tear down the dominant culture that the right seeks to maintain. Calling them both PC is therefore incorrect.

IMO, the PC/cultural Marxist crowd is in full alliance with the conservative Christian crowd. I don't know if Phil fits into either group, I suspect not.

I think both of these groups are out to tear down the dominant culture, which is liberal, and believes in protecting the rights of the individual over the group.

The liberal elites work hand in hand with the conservatives in writing a constantly increasing number of laws that restrict the rights of the individual.

Political correctness is all about Eliminating the rights of the individual, controlling the masses, which is conservatism in a nutshell.

reply to post by TheRegal

I certainly left it open for discussion by saying this: You could claim it's all been a huge conspiracy orchestrated by the government to instill some weir pseudo-communist belief system on the people -- I have yet to see any real evidence that would back that up at all

I don't see how much discussion you could wring out of that given that it's a straw man that isn't reflective of the issue, so of course you have yet to see real evidence of it.

Also I have several points in there that could be argued, so calling it "word salad" is something I'm just going to have to take as an admission of defeat on your previous statements.

Sorry about the word salad bit, but if you go back and read it, it's sloppily rendered and doesn't seem like you gave it a lot of thought. I could be wrong and maybe you did give it a lot of thought. Regardless, if you want to see my not digging into it as a defeat, go for it.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


I'll be sure to call things "word salad" in the future when it refutes the points I made an my brain can't come up with a response to the reality of the situation because it doesn't line up with my political rhetoric.

Also, if what you're calling a straw man is actually a straw man, you're the one who used it as an argument and I denied it so.... good job on calling out your own straw man.

reply to post by BlueMoonJoe


Come on, you don't think the PC crowd and the religious right could be working together?

It is good cop bad cop all the way around, no matter which side you are on. Only who plays which role changes.

reply to post by TheRegal

Also, if what you're calling a straw man is actually a straw man, you're the one who used it as an argument and I denied it so.... good job on calling out your own straw man.

This is your straw man:

You could claim it's all been a huge conspiracy orchestrated by the government to instill some weir pseudo-communist belief system on the people -- I have yet to see any real evidence that would back that up at all.

I never claimed anything of the kind, I never mentioned the government, I never mentioned conspiracies, I am speaking of the culture wars. Hence, this is a straw man because it has nothing to do with what I have been talking about.

Blue Moon Joe,

Culture wars?? Wow!!

That is to me just more fractionating into different camps. It is not leadership..it is divide and conquer. Or put another way, by those familiar with history.

Whenever you get a people or nation to big or difficult to handle from external pressures ..ie..conflict and war...you divide them into camps on any issues you can dream up..and get them to fight themselves.

Those who read history can see this pattern occurring over and over in certain situations.



By the mention of the Frankfurt School I am thinking you are also referring to the Mattachine Society and their connection to the Communist Party USA and also the Chicago Political Machine going back a number of years...though they changed form and label so as not to be so recognizable to the public. Is this correct? I ask this because so few have ever heard of either the Frankfurt School or the Mattachine Society.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


If more people knew they would be deeply disturbed..at both political parties in this country...Republicans and Democrats.
For they teach nothing about these origins or histories.

As I am often prone to state...people here in America seem to be verily dumbed down and often substitute emotions for real informations and thinking.

I have stated from the beginning that this administration is hell bent on dividing this nation into camps for the purpose of managing them for political purposes.

It was clear to me from the moment they went after that policeman for checking out the identity of that professor and they both wound up at the White House over beer...that this administration was only interested in fractionating people into camps and exploiting racism and other issues for political gain.
Even if it meant dividing and conquering this entire nation.

This is a marxist communist technique. It is also not leadership..but a parasite at work.

Any issue which will get them votes and support.

I do not support either the Republicans or Democrats in this as I think they are two sides of the same coin..just reflectors with the public caught in between as they steer them...both parties down a phony corridor to the slaughter.
The Republicans cannot be that ignorant that they do not know or sense this with their level of education and political savvy. This tells me that they are in on it for political lucre ..just like the Democrats. The Republican party is Democrat Lite.

They are both against the American people for political lucre.
Their investment is in dumbing down the people ..all of them.

I began to notice this about the political system when I realized that someone was playing the people emotionally ..not by sound reasonable thinking..but by emotional self indulgence for votes. They create bad guys in the minds of many without them even being aware they are being played. Good cop/bad cop.

When you have to create bad guys in the minds of the American People...more "Victims" for the public to fawn over and allow to default through on the public purse..you are headed downhill very fast. But this tactic does get alot of votes among those easily emoted for their ballot.

This is exactly what happened with health care and next year many are going to see the disaster continue..but it felt so good when they were voting on it at everyone else's expense.

And now issues like this in continuation of the pattern.
However..I think some of the posters here are correct. The public is tiring of this issue as well as the accompanying "Victim Dictum" philosophies which go along with it.
As I stated ..is this a continuation of how sick and disgusted the public got with the "Chick Filet " business about a year ago.

What I am looking for is the public getting disgusted with the Media..all the media trying to sell this PC nonsense to the public...and the public figuring out more how to vote with their dollars and remote controllers.

What the PC nonsense is for is to give the impression that the bulk of Americans can be labeled and ignored as inconsequential..immaterial...just as Randi Rhodes tried to do with voters who disagreed with her in Air America.

PC and culture wars are for the purpose of censorship..while others default through at public expense. I dont agree with this technique and as a result dont approve of the Republican Party for not teaching this line of thought to the people. They should.

This tells me that they, The Republican Party, are part of the problem..not the solution.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Aside from the fact that the connection between the Frankfurt School and "cultural marxism" is a factor in debunked conspiracy theories (Citation), implying that the Mattachine Society, the first really viable "gay rights" organization in the US, is directly related to either is shallow, spurious and utterly misleading.

Most people have either forgotten or are unaware of what it meant to be "openly gay" in 1950s America, i.e. it wasn't possible unless you wanted to be arrested and incarcerated. Any social outlet known to be friendly to homosexuals (like clubs or "gay bars") was regularly and systematically harassed and raided by police and its patrons arrested. Homosexual acts ("sodomy") were illegal in all 50 states, and these laws were used almost exclusively against gay men. Of particular note, these laws were still in place in several states UNTIL 2003. (Citation)

Those facts provide a little more context for quotes about the "secrecy" involved in the founding of the Mattachine Society. Being "secret" in organization and activities was a matter of retaining one's freedom in a police state.

We had never watched the show before all this happened. Yesterday there was actually a marathon of the episodes playing on A&E. We started watching and ended up watching several.

I imagine they've also gotten quite a lot more people who have started watching if only out of curiosity.

IMO it's a cute show and I do like that the family always has a prayer of thanks before they eat.

I'm sure that the fact that A&E issued a basically meaningless "suspension" right before broadcasting a marathon of one of its top-rated shows during a time when most folks are home on vacation and just before a new season starts in January ... is COMPLETELY coincidental. In every way.

Gryphon66
I'm sure that the fact that A&E issued a basically meaningless "suspension" right before broadcasting a marathon of one of its top-rated shows during a time when most folks are home on vacation and just before a new season starts in January ... is COMPLETELY coincidental. In every way.

Yes.
I saw the listing yesterday at 8pm, the DD show was running through 4am.
Funny thing for A&E to do when they don't want Phil Robertson representing them, eh? I suppose they don't mind the advertizing dollars rolling in. I wonder what the GLAAD position would be on that decision?

It is all about this: $$$$$$$$$

There's no reason to demonize GLAAD in this or any other issue. GLAAD is a organization that openly declares what its intentions are and acts accordingly. GLAAD, by virtue of its representation of members (who are American citizens), ALSO has (or should have) the same rights to "freedom of speech" as any other individual, corporation or entity. ADDED IN EDIT: At least, after the 2011 decision in Citizens United.

(The debate over the merits of Citizens United v. FEC is a valid one, but out of place in this context, in my opinion, at the current moment.)