We are born sinners

I have questions about original sin.

I was born into a Catholic culture and was baptized so I could be saved from my sins. I was a young kid and already labeled a sinner. Actually I was already a sinner the moment I was born. But it doesn't make sense.

Why would I be considered a sinner for something I haven't done?

An example would be that a pregnant mother commits a crime, is taken to prison and the baby is considered guilty as soon as he was born and the babies born hundreds of generations later are still paying the consequences for something done a long time ago.

When I was born I didn't even know who Adam and Eve were, but I was already responsible for their actions, it doesnt make any sense.

reply to post by danielsil18


It's only Christian doctrine to win over converts. If we weren't born with sin the church would have no leeway for their teachings.

We are definitely NOT born sinners, we are born pure and with a clean slate. When's the last time you saw a baby hurt someone else or lie about something? You never have because babies are innocent of any sin.

Original sin fails on so many levels that I have a hard time seeing how people actually believe it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


So we're not born sinners but we're born gay?

It's magical mythology nonsense built into the whole superstition to keep people tame, in check, and docile (like sheep). The mythology even attempts to glorify being a sheep, or "lamb of god", as if the prospect of existing as a farm animal, a piece of property, something that exists for the sole purpose of being slaughtered and eaten, is a good thing.

It's all just spooky mythology nonsense to keep the people that believe in spooky mythology nonsense in line.

The sins of the parents are not the sins of the child.

reply to post by danielsil18

Perhaps you can think of it in terms of a broken relationship.
The premise is that the relationship between God and the human race broke down in Eden.
As long as the relationship is not restored, then everybody born into the human race is born into the same condition of having a spoiled relationship with God.
It's like being at war. If you are born into a nation which is at war with another nation, then you are part of that war until there is a peace settlement. Or you defect to the other side.

reply to post by danielsil18


You must have offended God in one way or another I guess... Maybe it is because you remind Him of the moment His beloved creation that got seduced to eat the fruit and learned about right and wrong.

We are only ably to sin because we learned about it, making sin embedded in our being.
Without us, sin wouldn't exist.

I'm thinking out loud here by the way.

Define sin for me please ?

I don't understand the concept. What are the boundaries that make something bad/ wrong doing a sin for example ?

Some sin are a virtue in different times, and help you to survive where others parish.

It´s about power.. you should ask also why the childrens inherited their parents debt too when parents were deceased..

reply to post by DISRAELI

If you are born into a nation which is at war with another nation, then you are part of that war until there is a peace settlement. Or you defect to the other side.

I must protest. I demand the right to disagree with my governments reasons for war.
Getting forced to sooth your governments needs, without exception, is an outrage and even worse.

In the best case I'd survive, and it will only be attempted murder for private purposes.

What do you think ? Do I need to risk my life without the need to protect anything but the image of my government ?

DISRAELI
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Perhaps you can think of it in terms of a broken relationship.
The premise is that the relationship between God and the human race broke down in Eden.
As long as the relationship is not restored, then everybody born into the human race is born into the same condition of having a spoiled relationship with God.
It's like being at war. If you are born into a nation which is at war with another nation, then you are part of that war until there is a peace settlement. Or you defect to the other side.

In terms of relationship it will not make sense either. Why does my relationship with god suffer when I haven't done anything to him. Generalizing the whole human race that will ever be born for two people is not right.

The war explanation has nothing to do with an all-loving god. You can't compare a war between two countries and a baby facing the consequences of adam and eve.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

Maybe it is because you remind Him of the moment His beloved creation that got seduced to eat the fruit and learned about right and wrong.

I don't think that makes it right.

As to define sin, I won't because im not claiming that sin is true. But I think sin for most religious people is an act that goes against god's rules.

dollukka
It´s about power.. you should ask also why the childrens inherited their parents debt too when parents were deceased..

If they didn't, then who would pay for the funeral costs ?

It's a trick to make people pay. Who profits from it ? Look in that corner to find who and why debts are passed on to the children.

Besides... any person is actually property of the state. Any money you owed them can be collected from the offspring you left.

It isn't fair...

danielsil18
The war explanation has nothing to do with an all-loving god. You can't compare a war between two countries and a baby facing the consequences of adam and eve.

The analogy still works if all the belligerence is coming from the human side. The whole point of the Bible story is that God is the one trying to make contact and make peace.

But if you like we can adjust the analogy. The original couple are walking themselves off to a long distance from the rest of the family. From then onwards, all their descendants will be born into that state of "being distant from the rest of the family". But nothing prevents them from travelling back on their own account, with help, which is what the Bible is encouraging them to do.

There is a lot of history and fiction which will tell you that family feuds can be inherited. Think of it as a family feud.

cass1dy09
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

So we're not born sinners but we're born gay?

Who say's we are born straight?


As for the OP -I agree, it makes no sense. It's basically a scare tactic by the Church to reel you in on their beliefs from day one and your not supposed to ask questions. Why, because they said so. Keep your head down, follow the line and give all your treasures to the church, because hey, who wants to burn in hell forever? IMHO Christianity is nothing more than a form of government over the people to control them and take all the wealth for themselves. Hey sound a lot like our government here in Good ole USA.

That's my two cents and I'm sicking to it.

Sinter Klaas
I must protest. I demand the right to disagree with my governments reasons for war.
Getting forced to sooth your governments needs, without exception, is an outrage and even worse.

Good for you.
I did offer "defecting to the other side" as one of the possibilities.
In terms of my analogy, this is called "repentance and turning back to God".

reply to post by cass1dy09


The world and society is what turns people into sinners, we are not born that way. Gay people have different genes than straight people, genes that they were born with, so if you are gay then you were more than likely born that way.

Over 1,200 species of animal shows signs of homosexuality, are you saying they made the choice to be gay as well? I find that hard to believe personally. Most animals are not a part of our society, they live in balance with nature outside of society yet they still show signs of homosexuality, so that shows me that being gay is NOT a choice made by someone but is something they are born as.

Do animals outside of society sin or do they live in balance with nature? Sin is not a natural born trait, it is something instilled by the society set up around us. You're comparing apples to oranges here in my opinion.

danielsil18
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

Maybe it is because you remind Him of the moment His beloved creation that got seduced to eat the fruit and learned about right and wrong.

I don't think that makes it right.

As to define sin, I won't because im not claiming that sin is true. But I think sin for most religious people is an act that goes against god's rules.

edit on 21-12-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)

Makes what right ? The fact that being able to sin is part of who we are ? Or because God still holds a grudge about it ?

I asked for a definition because of the 7 sins that are the most famous, and the sins where you disrespect God or break some divine rules, He left for us in a book for us as a guide ?

reply to post by DISRAELI


All of your analogies deflect my question.

I'm not talking about wars or family feuds done by ignorant humans.

I'm talking about an all-loving all-powerful god that created adam and eve. They made a bad decision, became sinners and payed for it.

Then I was born a sinner for something adam and eve did. This supposedly intelligent, fair, all-loving god doesn't seem like a reasonable one.

danielsil18
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

Maybe it is because you remind Him of the moment His beloved creation that got seduced to eat the fruit and learned about right and wrong.

I don't think that makes it right.

As to define sin, I won't because im not claiming that sin is true. But I think sin for most religious people is an act that goes against god's rules.

edit on 21-12-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)

That's literally the definition. Sin is breaking divine law or rules laid in place by a deity.