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I'm coming out today.....

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posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Ollie769
 


It's all good. A few called me bud and stuff, and I usually feel it is off topic to stop for corrections. Gender doesn't generally matter in the grand scheme of things.

Thank you for the thought provoking conversation. And take it easy on your noggin.




posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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Doodle19815
reply to post by Ollie769
 


Gender doesn't generally matter in the grand scheme of things.



Oh, for this ol' fart the difference gender makes will always have an effect on how I approach a conversation. As least that's my aspiration anyway. I've been accused of being overly aggressive, I guess you'd call it, by previous female co-workers when I was expecting, perhaps hoping, to get as good as I gave and it backfired on me. You've experienced some of it in this thread!

I ran across a couple of interesting articles if you find time to read them:

www.boundless.org...

www.boundless.org...

I read most of the first one and then saw the reference to the second. The first one touches on several things I've mentioned here.

I think the website is an offshoot of Focus On The Family. I long ago began to distance myself from Dr. Dobson on religious grounds, I think. It's been so long I don't quite remember. But I still have a warm regard for he and his organization.



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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I think about all I can say about the OP is if your friends and family are gonna discriminate like that? They're probably not worth your time anyway. Only real sympathy in this situation I feel is for teenagers who face homelessness if they come out to their parents. Other than that? What's sad is not that society puts forth that they have to hide this. What's really sad is that they listen.

It's not illegal, so anyone who argues with em can # right off. Most of the gay people I know who are happy with where they're at have made that statement.

Also, lol @ bear's statement about not being allowed to be proud of your heritage. If you know where you come from, you know who you are. I'm Norse and happy to be so. It must suck to have so little connection to your ancestors that you feel you have to shout down others who don't think the same. Did I choose to be Norse? Not at all. If I had a choice, would I still be? Hell yes, and that's why I'm proud.



posted on Dec, 25 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Doodle19815
 


YES IT'S ALL IN THE PSALMS there you will learn how to live



posted on Dec, 26 2013 @ 03:20 AM
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Try coming out as a sex worker or yet being ousted as one.



posted on Dec, 27 2013 @ 12:47 AM
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So what is the goal of coming out to family members, if you think they will not be supportive, or perhaps merely upset by your lifestyle? What end are you trying to achieve? To get them to renounce their own value systems and then adopt yours instead?

Seriously, what's the plan?

I've always been a heterosexual; but in college, I was extremely promiscuous. My parents were devout and believed that all sex beyond the bounds of marriage was immoral. They strongly suspected what sort of life I was leading, but never pushed me about it. For my part, I never pushed them. I never brought any of the girls home for thankgsgiving. When the folks came for a visit, I purged my calendar and bachelor pad of awkward indications.

Should I have done that differently? Should I have "come out" to them about my promiscuity, detailing my adoption of an alien set of values. Should I have tried to get them to agree that my massive porn collection was actually a valid investment, as well as literature?

What do you need from them so badly that you NEED them to acknowledge your sex habits?



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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tovenar


Seriously, what's the plan?


What do you need from them so badly that you NEED them to acknowledge your sex habits?



I certainly can't answer for the person whom your questions were intended. But I, personally, think it is a matter of mental health. Coming out, needing the acceptance of those whom you love the most is crucial to your mental health.

It is not a matter that one wants to 'flaunt' their sexuality, but a matter of being fully accepted in every way.
For instance, a person born a male but who identifies with being female (and possibly having hid such identifications with their self from loved ones for whatever reason) may want to be treated and accepted as being female.
Therefore, it entails great risk.

And likewise, because of the societal stigmas attached to being gay, (still?) there is always a question if love and acceptance would be lost to them should they reveal themselves. In this day and age one would think it quite easy to 'come out'. But beliefs, ideas, and negativity will always exist surrounding the matter, even if only in the back of the mind.

I think the need is to be loved just as deeply, and in all the same ways as the moment before the revelation. And the need is also that risk to find it out. So that one can move forward from the point of recognition. These are only my opinions, and may not reflect the true essence of how someone who identifies with being gay, actually feels. But I would think it an issue of mental health?



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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tovenar

So what is the goal of coming out to family members, if you think they will not be supportive, or perhaps merely upset by your lifestyle? What end are you trying to achieve? To get them to renounce their own value systems and then adopt yours instead?

Seriously, what's the plan?

I've always been a heterosexual; but in college, I was extremely promiscuous. My parents were devout and believed that all sex beyond the bounds of marriage was immoral. They strongly suspected what sort of life I was leading, but never pushed me about it. For my part, I never pushed them. I never brought any of the girls home for thankgsgiving. When the folks came for a visit, I purged my calendar and bachelor pad of awkward indications.

Should I have done that differently? Should I have "come out" to them about my promiscuity, detailing my adoption of an alien set of values. Should I have tried to get them to agree that my massive porn collection was actually a valid investment, as well as literature?

What do you need from them so badly that you NEED them to acknowledge your sex habits?


Imagine that you could never share a holiday with your parents and your mate because you have to hide it from them. Or that your parents weren't allowed to know where you live for fear that they would come by and see that another man was living with you.

It isn't sex. Homosexuality is not sex. Sex is just one facet of a relationship. Any man who hasn't learned that is going to have a very, very hard time in their female relationships. Because a relationship isn't just sex. I have been married to my wife for 20 years. And we have shared a lot of sex with each other. But that has been a minute portion of our life together. We have done everything together, and have 20 years of memories (both good and bad) that we hinge our relationship. The sex is more of a celebration of what we have, and plays a frequent but minor role in the overall marriage. Were it to be gone tomorrow, we would adjust and continue on together.

If you expand your understanding of homosexuality beyond sex and see the greater relationships behind human interaction, it becomes obvious why one must "come out" to those around them.



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 09:32 AM
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bigfatfurrytexan

tovenar

So what is the goal of coming out to family members, if you think they will not be supportive, or perhaps merely upset by your lifestyle? What end are you trying to achieve? To get them to renounce their own value systems and then adopt yours instead?

Seriously, what's the plan?

I've always been a heterosexual; but in college, I was extremely promiscuous. My parents were devout and believed that all sex beyond the bounds of marriage was immoral. They strongly suspected what sort of life I was leading, but never pushed me about it. For my part, I never pushed them. I never brought any of the girls home for thankgsgiving. When the folks came for a visit, I purged my calendar and bachelor pad of awkward indications.

Should I have done that differently? Should I have "come out" to them about my promiscuity, detailing my adoption of an alien set of values. Should I have tried to get them to agree that my massive porn collection was actually a valid investment, as well as literature?

What do you need from them so badly that you NEED them to acknowledge your sex habits?


Imagine that you could never share a holiday with your parents and your mate because you have to hide it from them. Or that your parents weren't allowed to know where you live for fear that they would come by and see that another man was living with you.

It isn't sex. Homosexuality is not sex. Sex is just one facet of a relationship. Any man who hasn't learned that is going to have a very, very hard time in their female relationships. Because a relationship isn't just sex. I have been married to my wife for 20 years. And we have shared a lot of sex with each other. But that has been a minute portion of our life together. We have done everything together, and have 20 years of memories (both good and bad) that we hinge our relationship. The sex is more of a celebration of what we have, and plays a frequent but minor role in the overall marriage. Were it to be gone tomorrow, we would adjust and continue on together.

If you expand your understanding of homosexuality beyond sex and see the greater relationships behind human interaction, it becomes obvious why one must "come out" to those around them.




Very well said.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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Yes, well said for that perspective, but for the most part (we ARE talking in general here?) most men's lives center around sex until our late 30s or so. The lucky ones realize early that there's much to be gained from a woman's perspective of centering their lives around the relationship but it certainly isn't a majority of men that come to this realization. This is why I have a lot of difficulty denigrating lesbians over male homosexuals. Where bed-hopping is much more prevalent in the latter group women by virtue of their mental hard wiring have a strong tendency to focus on the relationship rather than sex.
edit on 4-1-2014 by Ollie769 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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Sorry I had to step away so long from this thread. Real life has a way of taking me away from my ATS time. Dang Holidays!

Starlight and BigFatFurryTexan, thank you so much much for eloquently putting into words the thoughts I had in my mind. And that is where I come into the unfairness of it all. Why should these people have to live a life that they are uncomfortable living. Why does society make them feel shamed? (Not really expecting an answer here.)

As to the comment about why there is a need to even come out because "it is just sex", no it is not, it is a lifestyle. One that people feel they have to hide from their loved ones. Sex is the least of a relationship as BFFT pointed out already. Parents could care less if you brought home someone from the opposite sex. In fact, they may even get excited and ask when the wedding is. Bring home the same sex partner, and if you haven't already, you'll have some explaining to do.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Ollie769
 


I'm still finding it hard to believe that guys are gay because it is just an easy lay. I personally don't see it as being easier at all. Especially when it comes time to form a relationship and start "coming out". That is some hard stuff to do right there. Seems it would be easier to be in a straight relationship at that point.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 09:25 AM
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Doodle19815
Now, before you get excited, I am serious here. Straight people never have to make this announcement.


It's because it's standard, the default. And you are wrong, because sometimes default people get harassed and accused of being non-standard which ofcourse doesn't work, trying to convince people of something only the person in question knows best.


I am MAD that my very close friends and family have had to carry this burden on their shoulders for YEARS. This secret eating away at them. They are unable to be their true self in the presence of loved ones for fear of rejection. IT ISN"T FAIR!


It isn't fair standard folk have to spend time thinking on these issues while they don't get anything for it in return. It's 2 different games, they both lead to different things, why learn 2 languages when you need only 1, the other only to prevent misunderstandings.

How will people look back on this period? Well I'm thinking after WW2 Hitler was THE bad guy of the world and evil incarnated, doesn't matter the allied side killed as well sometimes just as cruel with napalm and nukes. But allied won so everybody must have decided since Hitler was antigay and he was evil, it must be good to be progay or at least not be antigay like Hitler and most people left gays alone or harassed them less.

Still I'm thinking a movie would be made in the future about some gay hero, how one male who got mentally beat up so bad he left society, knowing all the ways on how to bring a man down he might have gone to Native americans and become exposed to ideas about twospirited, remade himself and must have had some outlook on society which was celebrating WW2's victory about, to enter the hippie age. Anyway he made up a plan on how to protect the gays of society and decades later here we are after many victories for gays. I wonder if the guy existed and if he still exists today and how many gays are actively involved in making people/societies accept them. Will they ever get to Africa and change the laws there, will Russia go gay or not, when will there be a gay president, is China at risk with so many surplus males. It's interesting times we live in which might set the tone for centuries to come.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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Hey Doodle and all –

Hope the holidays were good for you all. It’ll be good to get back into a routine again and start losing all the “holiday fat” I so enthusiastically put on. Not looking forward to the sugar withdrawal, though.

Doodle, I can understand your lack of understanding about men in general, even though you’ve been married to one of “us” for a while now. The mental gymnastics it takes for one gender to understand how the other thinks takes practice ... a LOT of practice. If this wasn’t the case then John Gray of “Men Are from Mars and Women Are from Venus” fame wouldn’t have had such a successful run now would he? The fact that I had to backtrack and start explaining a lot of things to you when I was informed about your gender means that there are some things you’ve either missed or have been purposely hidden from you for good reason. If your husband is a well-regulated person who’s fully in charge of his emotions and impulses that alone makes him a “keeper”. It still doesn’t describe what churns beneath the surface and comes to mind unbidden but never spoken, however.

Ok, let’s stick with the original question you posed as the OP. Why so difficult to “come out” to one’s family? The people one would think would be the ones who would be the most understanding and supportive? Well, surprise, surprise, not ALL families are cookie cutter perfect. I gave one reason in prior posts but if it needs repeating let me know. Us men, with our aloofness and aversion to forming close relationships to our kids probably are the chief reason most homosexual men just skip the “hey guys I’m gay” part altogether. I would be willing to bet a huge majority of fathers would lay some ground rules like “OK, if that’s what you want to be, then fine, just don’t bring it into MY house!” I love my son but would have done the same thing and I feel strongly that I speak for MOST fathers. That being said, however, I’d also lay some pretty good odds that most fathers would have already KNOWN about their kids “tendencies” long before the kids did. They’re just hoping they grow out of them.

Right about here I need to stress something to everyone that G. Gordon Liddy was wont to assert: the rules of Logic say, and correctly so, that you cannot argue from the specific to the general, but you CAN make an assumption from the general to the specific while arguing a point. There are probably some corollaries in there so if anyone knows them I’m all ears. So, Doodle, this is why I think you’re having a difficult time understanding why families, in general, have a difficult time accepting that their sibling or child is homosexual because you’re dealing with one perfectly decent homosexual man in your experience and generalizing that acquaintance to the global population.

Homosexuality is a very minor occurrence in the human population. That much I’m sure we can agree on. What is no longer talked about in the general debate is that the generally held belief and classification among psychologists that homosexuality was “aberrant behavior” was changed abruptly back in the 70s. How this came about needs to be looked into by anyone that isn’t afraid of the truth. It was done through threat of violence against academics that were accustomed to debate rather than direct confrontation. In other words “feeeeelings” were the replacement for hard scientific research (and I’ll be the first to agree that “psychological research”, i.e. “dinking with people’s minds”, was pretty spotty up until then). Once the American Psychological Association was taken over it was easy to simply rewrite the book on what was acceptable behavior and what wasn’t. This guaranteed those that could be helped through a clear understanding of the problem wouldn’t be unless they were lucky enough to find a clear-headed professional willing to buck the trend.

Did you ever read either of the articles I referenced in my previous posts? Since the first was written by a pastor I’ll readily agree that he’s not a psychologist by trade but the clergy have a pretty darn good understanding of how peoples’ minds work or they aren’t going to be successful in their field. It is also a personally closely held belief that the Biblical animosity toward homosexuality is, #1, probably taken out of context and, #2, if not out of context was probably intended not to be dealt with as harshly as many want to portray. (I wanted to phrase that differently but don’t have the right words now.) There is much we’re learning about the original writers’ perspectives that could rewrite the whole collection of books we call The Bible.

This is no small debate, obviously, but if you’re going to ever get an answer to your original question you’re going to have to do some digging into what makes our gray matter tick. As a woman I understand it is difficult to separate your theories from your feelings and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, my dear Venusian. I began to look into the homosexual “question” a long time ago because I didn’t just want to follow some “yahoo’s” blathering from the pulpit. I wanted to know WHY do we look at homosexuality in such a dark light? In doing so I had to be willing to put my personal theories to the test. The least complicated answer is – it’s complicated! And you aren’t going to have the simple, pat answer you’re looking for.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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BFFT: “Imagine that you could never share a holiday with your parents and your mate because you have to hide it from them. Or that your parents weren't allowed to know where you live for fear that they would come by and see that another man was living with you.

It isn't sex. Homosexuality is not sex. Sex is just one facet of a relationship.
^^^^^^
And after 34 and a half years of marriage I realize that, too, BFFT. And, also, if you’d taken the time to read my previous posts you’d also know that some of the homosexuals I’ve known were BLOOD kin! That means their thoughts, their feelings, and their beliefs flow in my veins as well. I lost my dad when I was 13 to cancer. I could’ve, very easily, had a huge “Daddy complex” for a number of men that mentored me through the past 56 years of my life. I’ve had good friends that I’d die for without question but you put that mental barrier up and don’t go beyond a certain point – even with the friends you KNOW are homosexual. It’s all about being in control of your emotions. Emotions are good to have and you can’t stop them but you master and control them like you do your car in traffic. It’s part of being a responsible adult. You’re dealt a certain set of cards at conception and you deal with those aspects of your life until you die.

As far as “imagining” goes, this speaks DIRECTLY to the point I’ve made in previous posts about homosexuals DEMANDING to be recognized. DEMANDING acceptance. It’s a one-way street that doesn’t accept heterosexuals’ aversion to their choices. If you want to talk about “fairness” it HAS to be a 2-way street … doesn’t it?? Try "imagining" you have enough love in your family to actually sit down and talk about it and deal with it. If you're and adult no one ought to be able to tell you how you live your life but you OUGHT to be able to take the blows life throws at you. That perspective is no more idealistic than thinking every family ought to do cartwheels when they find out their kid's bringing home a same-sex partner.

Doodle – “Sex is the least of a relationship…”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Doodle, this is a Venusian perspective if I’d ever heard one… If you and your husband are pretty close in age see what his perspective on getting cut off cold turkey would be. Just for giggles and grins see who outlasts whom.

Let me restate what I alluded to before - women, by and large, TEACH men about relationships. It's not something that comes to us guys full-form from birth. We have a strong tendency to be aggressive. Seeing multiple sides of an issue often throws a wrench in our entire thinking process - for days. But THIS process of learning is what makes the heterosexual relationship so much more desirable because it creates an environment for both sexes to grow. Doesn't mean you're going to be an "A" student but in a homosexual relationship you have the problems of each gender doubled. Male on Male characteristics is much more of a problem than lesbianism but they have their problems too.

One thing that stuck with me when I was going through a Hebrew studies class a few years back was to learn that women had fewer Torah laws to live by than men! Women were considered closer to G-d than men were. There's a reason for that. (No, I'm not Jewish, either)



posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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Don't even want to phone a friend, huh.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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a reply to: Doodle19815

I had to take 8 years of Psychology living in the largest same gender dating/couples pre & post

Deep....I like that lol!
I was single, Tempted even.....But it seemed just not to happen somehow....





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