The Liberal Atheist Agenda and the Denial of Self

rupertg
tip: part of the point of being an Atheist is NOT being as annoying as religious folks. shut up about it.

Or just leave the thread. That option is available to anyone who doesn't like what they read here.

reply to post by jimmyx

I'm a liberal and an atheist, and I don't know what the you are talking about. this is real simple....so I won't use big words.... we do not want to live by religious laws, nor have any religious people try and control us using religion...that's it,...that's the entire agenda,...the whole ball of wax.

Would it not be more to the point to say, even if there is a God,
we do not want to live by his laws? Save evryone a ton of BS?

randyvs
reply to post by jimmyx

 

I'm a liberal and an atheist, and I don't know what the you are talking about. this is real simple....so I won't use big words.... we do not want to live by religious laws, nor have any religious people try and control us using religion...that's it,...that's the entire agenda,...the whole ball of wax.

Would it not be more to the point to say, even if there is a God,
we do not want to live by his laws? Save evryone a ton of BS?

edit on 21-12-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Basically the same thing, although there are some minor details which could make a difference in certain circumstances.

Good grief!

Not only was A. Hitler NOT an atheist (he criminalized atheism in 1933), he was a very vocal Christian.

Here's a few choice quotes from "Brother Adolf" in this regard:

“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”

[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

[Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a
political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on
his personal Christian feelings. Published in "My New Order", quoted
in Freethought Today April 1990]

“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator.”

[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_]

“What we have to fight for…is the freedom and independence of the
fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission
assigned to it by the Creator.”

[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_]

“In the ranks of the movement [National Socialist movement], the most
devout Protestant could sit beside the most devout Catholic, without
coming into the slightest conflict with his religious convictions.
The mighty common struggle which both carried on against the
destroyer of Aryan humanity had, on the contrary, taught them
mutually to respect and esteem one another.”

[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 10]

SOURCE

AND so on ... you get the idea. And this was not a complicated internet search either ... just type in "Adolf Hitler Christian quotes" into your local Google.

reply to post by Gryphon66


It is very hard to consider Hitler a Christian, especially when you read actual inquiries into his history. Fascinated by messianic ideology yes, Christian . . . . no.

The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology
Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387663151&sr=1-1&keywords=occult+roots+of+n azism

Nearly half a century after the defeat of the Third Reich, Nazism remains a subject of extensive historical inquiry, general interest, and, alarmingly, a source of inspiration for resurgent fascism in Europe. Goodrick-Clarke's powerful and timely book traces the intellectual roots of Nazism back to a number of influential occult and millenarian sects in the Habsburg Empire during its waning years. These sects combined notions of popular nationalism with an advocacy of Aryan racism and a proclaimed need for German world-rule.

This book provides the first serious account of the way in which Nazism was influenced by powerful millenarian and occult sects that thrived in Germany and Austria almost fifty years before the rise to power of Adolf Hitler.

These millenarian sects (principally the Ariosophists) espoused a mixture of popular nationalism, Aryan racism, and occultism to support their advocacy of German world-rule. Over time their ideas and symbols, filtered through nationalist-racist groups associated with the infant Nazi party, came to exert a strong influence on Himmler's SS.

The fantasies thus fueled were played out with terrifying consequences in the realities structured into the Third Reich: Auschwitz, Sobibor, and Treblinka, the hellish museums of Nazi apocalypse, had psychic roots reaching back to millenial visions of occult sects. Beyond what the TImes Literary Supplement calls an intriguing study of apocalyptic fantasies, this bizarre and fascinating story contains lessons we cannot afford to ignore.

Lets not forget that Hitler was a big fan of Theosophy, aka the worship of Lucifer as per Madam Blavastky.

Calling Hitler a practicing Christian is disingenuous.

-FBB

reply to post by darkbake


The more you study history and read how some of the ideologies or political beliefs evolved, one can easily see that over time, the core beliefs or categorizations of a particular form of governing or thinking can become so overlapped that you no longer have a pure form of anything, they end up agreeing at times on things which were not common beliefs or agreeable.

To me a lot of this has nothing to do with religion or atheism insomuch as religion being used as the force to control and manipulate the masses by the hidden powers who control money, wealth and world events.

That is why you have left, right, far left, far right or neo subdivisions of the two opposing forces in today's political arena, liberal and conservative, but because of my opening statement this is why political thinking sometimes morphs based up overlapping areas that both conservative and liberals might agree upon.

I think that if you study communism, fascism, socialism the bolshevik revolution, Hitlers fetish with restoring the roman pantheon and reliving that in some way, (I think of what the Ancient Romans did to Carthage or the Punic wars) mixed in with some of his misinformed thinking about race traces it all the way back to even Albert Pike, Blavatsky, Alice Bailey you start to get a picture of a lot of Utopian warped thinking based on supposed visions and contact with spiritual entities which is very dangerous, most luciferian or theosophical thinking is based on this type of guidance, unfortunately today that is the basis of a lot of conservative thinking and also the basis of many of the goals of the New World Order.

When you deny people of self or self identity this has to be for a specific goal and this is for unified monolithic thinking or "Hive Mindset" ( clue: think of the symbol of the bee-hive and where it can be found for all to see) to replace the individual mind and self determination.

It seems that if you look at the reasoning behind the NWO , it is based upon the ideals of a centralized consolidated body that is the sole generator of all thought, for the society to be guided by, in other words big brother, the all seeing eye, is over all, you or us the individual are not equipped to guide our own individual destiny so we need to follow the Uber mind creators, the NWO.

Do not forget that the U.S. Senate has on display proudly the Roman Fasci, and most commonwealths, federal and local governments proudly display logos that contain the phrygian cap (supposedly signifying freedom or revolution ), those same icons and symbols are also associated with Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler and other nefarious dictator types from world history also.

So does this mean that if the U.S. uses many of these same symbols they are the same? you have to do research to get to the bottom of that, and ask, what is the true and real basis for any government if they all are using common symbols to represent themselves, the question might be posed what previous ideology or forms of government they truly consider their own foundations to be based upon? and what does that mean for the people or citizens they rule over ?

I think that government over time changes and loses touch with whatever original foundations may have been set that guide it, and by the time the citizens realize this, it is usually too late.

FriedBabelBroccoli

Lets not forget that Hitler was a big fan of Theosophy, aka the worship of Lucifer as per Madam Blavastky.

Calling Hitler a practicing Christian is disingenuous.

-FBB

Um, Lucifer is part of the whole Abrahamic Christian Mythology.
A Christian that 'worships' or pays homage to Lucifer is still a Christian.

If someone taking stock in Norse Mythology prefers Loki over Odin, they're still adhering to Norse mythology.

If someone giving observation to Egyptian mythology prefers Osiris over Ra, it doesn't make them any less a follower of the Egyptian mythology.

Worship Lucifer?
Or paying homage to any trappings associated with the Christian mythology?
Still a Christian.
Perhaps not by definition of those adherent to the mythology, but, Mythologically, and Sociologically they're still a Christian.
Sure, anyone may call it a 'cult', or whatever, but, still, it's Christian.

The abrahamic mythologies like to label themselves as monotheistic, but, in reality, they're polytheistic as there's more than one supernatural character to choose from for 'worship', whether it's acceptable behavior or not.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Myths or whatever you are calling them predate Christ, burnt offerings and other things more associated with luciferian, bull, baal worship are not most identifiable with Christian belief, I am sorry but you are sadly mistaken, most of these other esoteric thinking are a relic of building altars, human sacrifice and other odd practices associated with things that have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ and he strictly taught against that, however, you can find some forms of religion that call themselves after Christ that have absorbed many of these rituals beliefs in idols and divination unfortunately, thus they are falsely following his true teachings and creating dogmatic thinking that either confuses or misconstrues the truth of the word of Christ.

It's too much of an injustice to put all these things that may not be fully accurate in the same category or ball of wax as what you are saying is Christian when it can proven that it is not.

Overall you have to believe what you want or continue in your own search to put all of this together on your own.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Basically the same thing, although there are some minor details which could make a difference in certain circumstances.

Well it leaves no room for illusion in the mind of any holy rollers that
might be on a crusade to save someone, at any given point in time.
Save some space on ATS if nothing less. As much as that seems a
heartless way for me to put it from my view, but it is what it is.

reply to post by Gryphon66

Not only was A. Hitler NOT an atheist (he criminalized atheism in 1933), he was a very vocal Christian.

Hitler wasn't an atheist. And he damn sure wasn't a Christian. I'm not even certain
he was psychopath.
He was a Nazi ! With one test tickle. And some daddy issues.
And he was death.

I really dislike the way people assume this and that.

Pleade tell me.

Is there any room for someone who does not believe in god and doesn't follow any political "views"?

There will be no end to the ignorance because people are so quick to label.

Crap gets old, the stink wears off, but it's still crap.

randyvs

Would it not be more to the point to say, even if there is a God,
we do not want to live by his laws? Save evryone a ton of BS?


I don't want to put words in your mouth Randy, but it almost comes across as if you think that morality and being a good person is the sole domain of the religious or perhaps just Christians. Is it not possible to live a life the Christ would approve of while not believing or accepting him as the Son of God? When you get right down to it, the 10 commandments are all pretty much common sense items and are covered by penal code in many cases. There are certainly some things in the bible, the OT more so, that I have no problem refusing to go along with if its God's will. I have no interest for example in exchanging my daughter for a dowry or goats and honey or stoning homosexuals or as described in Judges 21:10-24, the kidnapping and raping of all virgin women after the killing of all males and non virgin women. Let's be honest, god has a pretty nasty mean streak in him sometimes. As Ghandi said, I like your Christ but not your Christians.

reply to post by darkbake

There is actually also a high risk that the same liberal atheist movement may evolve to the point where it is against food stamps and welfare and health care - and it may manifest in small ways - for example, when signing up for health care, you may be penalized for smoking, or being overweight.

Why are you worried about atheists dammaging social programs in the future when its the Christian right thats in power doing that right now? In September when House Republicans voted to slash $40 billion from the food stamps program. If this had become law, it would’ve result in nearly four million Americans being deprived of these desperately needed benefits.

Conservatives have waged a war to destroy Obamacare which would provide health insurance to millions of Americans who can’t afford coverage. In fact, 20 States with Republican governors and Republican-controlled legislatures have refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare, making it more challenging if not impossible for the impoverished residents of these States to afford health insurance coverage.

And what would Jesus do about the 1.3 million Americans whose unemployment benefits will end just a few days after Christmas? Well, conservatives apparently believe Jesus would say “no” to any extension. Indeed, Rep. Kevin Cramer recently cited this passage from the Bible as a reason to slash benefits for the poor: “If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.” Interestingly, during the federal government shutdown in September, Congressman Cramer was the only member of the North Dakota Congressional delegation who didn’t donate his salary to charity.

Instead of worrying about some fictional atheist movement of the future how about concentrating on those in power now is it because they aren't atheist that they get a pass?

The only atheist the conservatives hold in high regard seems to be Ann Rand and thats not a good thing.

reply to post by peter vlar


Negative my good man. I know better than to even think like that.
The main point of what I was saying is right here on this page. I would admit
to some conviction as my wording just doesn't shy from the core truth.
That only makes it appear that I'm being high and mighty in the face
of what could easily be misconstrud as avoidance. IMO

randyvs
reply to post by peter vlar

 

Negative my good man. I know better than to even think like that.
The main point of what I was saying is right here on this page. I would admit
to some conviction as my wording just doesn't shy from the core truth.
That only makes it appear that I'm being high and mighty in the face
of what could easily be misconstrud as avoidance. IMO

Fair enough, and I didn't really think that was what you were implying, just trying to clarify before I get up on my high horse and go trotting off on a long winded rant in the wrong direction.

What makes someone a Christian exactly? Do we each get to judge who is and isn't? Isn't that supposedly a matter between each individual and God? Should we all vote on it?

Please.

Adolf Hitler believed he was a Christian (as noted above, as can be seen very easily by referencing his many quotes on the subject.) He stated he was a Christian on multiple occasions (ibid). He acted in ways that he believed were justified by his Christian faith. (References provided above and easily accessible on the internet.)

Doesn't the Bible say something along the lines of "Judge not that ye be not judged."? Oh wait, that's inconvenient in this application, isn't it?

Personally, I will state unequivocally that in my opinion the crimes of the Nazi regime in Germany were beyond appalling. Adolf Hitler was a psychopath, war criminal and mass murderer, but he was also a practicing Christian according to his own testimony.

Before anyone says that no Christian would advocate mass murder, etc., just type in "gays put to death christians" or "history of christian brutality and genocide" or "history of christian anti-semitism" or "christian genocide of native peoples" into any search engine; then get back to me.

Facts, not statements of opinion.

*shrug*

reply to post by peter vlar

pretty nasty mean streak in him sometimes. As Ghandi said, I like your Christ but not your Christians.

And as for this. Are you not looking at God in only two dimensions
regarding those concerns you mentioned? Where as I look at them
in three dimensions and see that God doesn't put the significance
we, you and I, but more so you, put on this life as opposed to the
next. He is clearly more worried about our eternal life. And that
happens to depend on us obeying him. But I admit I fail just as much
or even more than others

Forgive me Father

reply to post by Gryphon66


Except there is the whole 'You will know them by their works' aspect that comes into play here.

Or is the only factor that comes into play here whether or not someone claims or believes they are a Christian.

-FBB

Another poster literally is identifying anyone who supports anything in line with the Abrahamic faiths a Christian, they are calling Muslims, Satanists, and Luciferians as Christians.

You lot are a hoot with how motivated you are to demonize a certain faith.

EDIT
You can google all the horrible crimes done by people you like, however you should also note that these crimes were not supported by Christ in the New Testament, though they may find support in the Old.

I find it hard to call people who do not adhere to the teachings of a certain faith a follower of that faith.

But that would make demonizing an entire group of people more difficult so I don't expect much of it here.

reply to post by randyvs


In all honesty Randy, I think initially I was simply turned off by organized religion in general, then it was when I started to realize that probably 90% of people who identify as Christians weren't acting very Christ like as they espoused hatred hypocrisy bigotry and ignorance in the name of the lord and the final straw was having church shoved farther down my throat by the Army than any of my Irish Catholic forbearers ever could have. I just didn't care for church or the organization, got into a lot of gnostic scripts and embraced the Gospel of St. Thomas with his whole "the church is in your heart not some building" deal. I didn't get to the land of agnosticism until my late 20's and even after all these years when I show up for a wedding or funeral I can still remember the entire mass by heart. I don't know what's out there after this life but I do my best to be courteous and kind to people, treat them with respect and be a good person. the only real difference between you and I is that you pray and I no longer do. If he's a loving and forgiving guy then maybe I'll still be able to skate by at the end if he's real, if not I've no complaints or regrets.

see that God doesn't put the significance
we, you and I, but more so you, put on this life as opposed to the
next. He is clearly more worried about our eternal life.

isn't that where free will comes into play though? whether god knows it or not, I've still got kids a house and a mortgage so sometimes you really have no choice but to put some significance into the here and now and roll with the punches. This life is all I know and all I have to work with for the time being so I make the best of it that I can with what I have to work with.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Your entire post is basically about demonizing a entire group on the basis off of a few and how wrong that is but I didn't see you telling the OP that. Is it because you have no problem with it when its atheists? While you did try to categorize atheists I don't see the same message you are sending out about demonization of Christians.

Maybe I am wrong but it sure looks that way.

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Gryphon66

 

Except there is the whole 'You will know them by their works' aspect that comes into play here.

Or is the only factor that comes into play here whether or not someone claims or believes they are a Christian.

-FBB

Another poster literally is identifying anyone who supports anything in line with the Abrahamic faiths a Christian, they are calling Muslims, Satanists, and Luciferians as Christians.

You lot are a hoot with how motivated you are to demonize a certain faith.

EDIT
You can google all the horrible crimes done by people you like, however you should also note that these crimes were not supported by Christ in the New Testament, though they may find support in the Old.

I find it hard to call people who do not adhere to the teachings of a certain faith a follower of that faith.

But that would make demonizing an entire group of people more difficult so I don't expect much of it here.

edit on 21-12-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

What??? How in the world can anything I've posted be interpreted as demonizing Christianity? I have only posted factual history, primary quotes, links to documented materials, and suggestions as to further research in the line of the discussion. If Christians have historically acted in ways counter to the teachings of their Master, is that my fault? Am I demonizing them when I point out established history? I think not.

It seems to me that you want to state merely what you believe as Truth regardless of any facts presented to the contrary. It is, of course, your right to believe what you want, and say what you want, just as it is mine to state the factual truth as opposed to ill-founded opinions.

Not liking the facts does not render them untrue. *shrug*