Marshall Cabinet Question: Changing speaker in new cabinet

reply to post by ipsedixit

They will sound different than even you heard going from headphones, kinds, amps and spkrs, desk top spkrs, ear buds...you will give those examples sounding different every time from each other....so its best to always try and listen thru a variety of spkrs, wattages, volumes and amplifiers.

What you explained as having heard is false. Until you can hear them from all the others. You'd be surprised. What you listen and tryout thru....you need to see if its the same on other systems....otherwise its pointless.

What were you using? How loud was it? Did you try it thru headphones? Amplifier spkrs? Desktop? Car spkrs? That's why I say listening to the difference on one system or youtube vid....will be VASTLY difference with each one. No two will sound the same...and changing anything without comparisons....may be a huge mistake because you didn't.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

Thanks for the heads up. I will definitely take it into consideration.

As far as the explanation of why the commercials on radio and TV sound louder, I may not have explained it exactly correctly. This is from a forum where the subject was being discussed:

www.democraticunderground.com...

In normal recordings, you balance the highs, lows, and mid tones to get a more natural sounding tone. If you watch the volume on a peak meter, it's bouncing all over the place! Going from soft to loud to somewhere in the middle, depending on the tones - how loud the lows are, how loud the highs are, and how loud the mids are. One of the jobs of a recording studio sound engineer is getting the right balance of the volumes of the highs, mids, and lows.

However, after the law came out to limit the volume of commercials based on the average volume levels, someone came up with a "limiter" that would keep any of the volume levels in any range from going above the volume level that you pick.

So, for commercials, instead of balancing the highs, lows, and mids for a more natural sound, they turn the EQ all the way up for all levels and turn on the limiter to keep any of them from going over the volume limit set by Congress.

Therefore, even though it "sounds" much louder because all levels are running at the maximum volume level allowed by law, it still falls within legal limits because the "average" volume measured by the VU meters doesn't go past the levels set by the law.

The technical term for this might be "compression".

I'm not really sure, but what is going on with the Vintage 30, as I understand it, is that the mid range is emphasized. The speaker is going to vibrate so that energy put into it is going to be released in the middle of the sonic spectrum. The G12T-75 is de-emphasizing the mids and putting the energy into the highs and lows.

Both speakers are receiving the same amount of energy but the Vintage 30 sounds louder because all of its energy is coming through one part of the spectrum and is not being split so that it goes to two separated parts of the spectrum.

That's the way I see it. I don't think the person who made the video turned the volume down for the G12T-75 portions of the track. This result should hold, under all circumstances, I believe.

reply to post by ipsedixit

Jumping back to this post...did you realize that station to station, country to country, frequency to frequency...every commercial byte we hear... is recorded at different e.q.'s, levels, volumes, and in different quality studios of all sizes and technical capacities in studios around the world? There-in is something most don't realize.

Add to the fact there is no standard levels for these of poor or great quality...studios BROADCASTING these to us add a 3rd variant to what we hear. And yet we wonder why some are quiet and muddy, and some are jumping out at us so we can hear them when we go in the kitchen for a drink! same from tv program to program. Movies as well.

There is no magic "box" that takes commercials and "standardize " the good and bad ones to sound uniform. So studios, equipment, countries and the professionalism of studio engineers and the stations themselves playing the commercials...all create what we hear.

It not as simple as the one youre listening to now in your city on whatever stations adjust the mids and high and eq the volumes etc. Its all different where you hear it, how it was recorded and on what, and where it was done. Lastly, its also what type, brand and quality of tv or video youre hearing and watching it on.

PS Ive co-produced some 20 commercials for the old Channel 51 in Ft Lauderdale, Fla in 1976-77, a PEPSI Commercial in Detroit, and filmed some 15 or so rock music/band videos in the 1980's. So Ive had some experience.

reply to post by ipsedixit


You want a proper answer to your question? Here's one.

I agree with the technician. With two different cones in your cab, you'll have (1) two completely different impedance curves and (2) two completely different frequency responses to the input signal.

You'll get uneven power distribution between speakers causing one to pull power away from the other at certain frequencies and all kinds of other hell. You could even damage your amplifier's output stages beyond repair in some cases.

Before you try tinkering with perfectly serviceable equipment, learn how it works by putting in the necessary years of theoretical study and practice. Till then, put your faith in expert knowledge and in ears that have more listening and judging experience than your own. In other words, put your faith in the people who make Marshall amplifiers and cabs. That brandname is famous for a reason.

ETA: Mysteriousstranger's advice is good, too.

reply to post by CallYourBluff


I'm pretty sure the topic at hand had to do with modifying a speaker cabinet, not giving the OP musical advice.

Power in our neighborhood in Toronto has been off since Sunday morning at 04:00. It just came on a few minutes ago. My hands are cold! I just made a coffee.

The ice storm that the northeast is suffering under at the moment is a major problem. At its worst there were probably 500,000 people without heat in their homes in the Toronto metropolitan area.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, or topics.

I think I'd better stick to the electronics part of it and leave the esthetics or sensory side of it alone. Astyanax has got me thinking that whatever speakers I put in my cabinet, they had better be matched exactly, electronically.

So I will have to look into that. Thanks to everyone who responded. I think that's it for me for now.

reply to post by ipsedixit


You're welcome. One more thing. It may sound contrary to my earlier advice, but it isn't really.

There's a lot to be said for experimenting with just about everything in your signal chain at one point or another. Whether or not you stumble upon sounds you can use, you learn a lot about the details of sound production and this can open all sorts of new doors for you in music. However, once you get past the business of trying out different kinds of guitars, strings, picks, slides (if you use them), amps and effects, you need to know a bit of what you're about before taking a screwdriver or soldering iron to your precious instruments and equipment.

Here a classic book that can help you a lot. It's a bit dated now, but it will help you grasp a lot of the basic concepts. There are a few other books on the subject too.

Here's another tip you might find useful: learn to listen to music like a sound engineer or producer. Or musician, actually; what I mean is, learn to identify what has been done electronically to the guitar signal — as well as the other recorded elements — of the music you listen to. Basic stuff is knowing whether a guitar sound you're listening to has reverb; more advanced is to be able to identify whether it's a spring, plate or chamber reverb. Can you hear the EQ? Can you tell the difference between a 'scooped' tone and a fat one? Do you know what EQ settings to use to achieve them? Can you listen to a record and identify the make of guitar, or at least the kind of pickups, the guitarist is using? Can you hear it when he switches pickups in the middle of a solo?

There's lots to learn before you get to the stage of modding speaker cabinets!

reply to post by Astyanax

Thanks for the advice. I think that I will just buy the standard 1936 cabinet and get to know it a little bit better before boutique-ing it with special speakers. Learning to walk before I run.

I may be bull-headed but everything everyone has been saying has been sinking in. Thanks to all.

I have bought a Marshall Model 8222 2x12 speaker cabinet for my amp. It is smaller than a 1936 cabinet but it has foot recesses in the top of it to take a full size Marshall head. The cabinet comes with Celestion C120 speakers. Price was $225 (US).

I can't find these speakers listed on the Celestion website. Is anybody familiar with them? I imagine that they are an older series of speaker that might be analogous to one of their current series.

I haven't taken delivery of the cabinet yet so I can't listen for myself.

Got delivery of my speaker cabinet today and was thrilled because it came a day earlier than expected.

Wasn't thrilled when I started to move the package though. Something was thumping around inside. I opened it up and took the back off the cabinet and found both of the heavy ceramic magnets were sheered off the backs of the speakers.

I looked around on the web and found that some people don't believe this could happen. It can happen. I'll post photos if I can find my camera's USB cord.

Whaddamess!!

Here is the photo:



I haven't contacted the seller yet. Not much to say.

At least I found out what the speakers are. They are G12T100s, which is, according to a guy in a Marshall forum, basically the same as a G12T75 except more robust. The cabinet with these speakers (working) could be very loud I am thinking.

I contacted the seller after reading a little in various blogs and forums about similar experiences. I sent a photo of the cabinet and magnets and he asked for photos of the box, which are required for making a claim with the shipper.

He asked me to save the box, which I will do. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

I got a shock today when Ebay swooped in and based on the story of what happened, including details and photos of damage and speculations as to how the damage occurred, provided a refund of my costs plus the shipping charges, etc.

Thank you Ebay.

It is much appreciated. I am certainly a very satisfied customer and will be back for more deals. I also thanked the seller in the case via his message inbox and will do so in the "feedback" related to the sale. He was very cooperative and professional to deal with.

A very happy ending to what could well have been a horror story.