Mexico's Mysterious Cholula (Mesoamerican Site)

Hello

Today I'd like to introduce a new series of threads.

I've toyed with the idea of writing a series of threads about all the lesser known and more mysterious Mesoamerican sites I've come across in my wanderings over the years. Some of the sites I'm sure a few of you have heard of or seen before. Knowing this I'll try to focus on the lesser known and more controversial aspects of each. I've already have several of this new series in the works but today I'd like to introduce you to one of my favorites. The Great Pyramid of Cholula

Why is this one one my favorites? Well for starters when I first viewed older images of the staircase I marveled and was amazes at just how modern and sophisticated it appeared to me. One could imagine this staircase out in front of any of our supposed 'Modern' 21rst Century buildings. Secondly, I was a bit put off by the fact that the Church in their 'Infinite wisdom' *Rolls eyes* decided to build a Cathedral on top of it. But, to be fair, I doubt they knew it at the time. You see and must understand, the site was originally completely buried (Like many of the sites to be discussed later in the series were)

Before we go in to any more detail about the site I'd first like to draw your attention to something I noticed quite some time ago. Let's begin with another fairly well known site that has made the rounds quite a bit here at ATS and elsewhere quite a bit *Images and comparisons to Egypt's Giza Pyramid site* (For Various reasons) Lets first take a brief look at what the site layout and over all 'Original state' would have looked like. Then later I'll draw parallels with Cholula...

Teotihuacan

The early history of Teotihuacan is quite mysterious, and the origin of its founders is unsure. For many years, archaeologists believed it was built by the Toltec. This belief was based on colonial period texts, such as the Florentine Codex, which attributed the site to the Toltecs. However, the Nahuatl word "Toltec" generally means "craftsman of the highest level" and may not always refer to the Toltec civilization centered at Tula, Hidalgo. Since Toltec civilization flourished centuries after Teotihuacan, the people could not have been the city's founders.

In the Late Formative time, a number of urban centers arose in central Mexico. The most prominent of these appears to have been Cuicuilco, on the southern shore of Lake Texcoco. Scholars have speculated that the eruption of the Xitle volcano may have prompted a mass emigration out of the central valley and into the Teotihuacan valley. These settlers may have founded and/or accelerated the growth of Teotihuacan.

All too often I read comments and opinions expressed that the 'New Worlds' civilizations weren't that amazing or sophisticated never mind the age or level of developments. I think the above images dispel this notion. It's obvious to anyone viewing these sites objectively cannot deny they were not only sophisticated in design, appearance and esthetics but for function as well.

Fairly recently there have been some newer archeological discoveries made.

Published on Apr 23, 2013 A robot uncovers three ancient chambers deep under Mexico's iconic Teotihuacan archaeological site that experts believe may lead to the lost tombs of the Mesoamerican city's former rulers. Full story:

'Shrouded in Mystery'

I love hearing that, don't you?

Now, what originally caught my attention was the similarity that I think are tantalizingly advanced design revealed so far at Cholula. Here's a quick comparison between the two.

According to myth, a giant named Xelhua built the pyramid of Cholula out of adobe bricks after escaping a flood in the neighboring Valley of Mexico. Most believe that the temple remained the primary seat of worship for the popular Mexican deity called Quetzalcoatl.

It should be noted that the large pyramid at Teotihuacan has nearly the exact identical base size as the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. The Cholula pyramid may eventually be found to dwarf those two by volume. There is nothing I could find yet to verify it's exact base size yet. There are estimates but I wouldn't bet the farm on those quite yet. Reason being? The site is still largely buried and unfortunately the Church on the top will stay. How unfortunate in my opinion, but it is what it is.




Here are some images of what they have revealed around the base. It should be noted that the Cholula site has a virtual labyrinth and more may still be found the further it's investigated. This labyrinth may have spurred the expanded research effort over at Teotihuacan due to their obvious similarities.



So, in the end, who knows exactly what will be revealed as they further investigate the site. If a very well known site like Teotihuacan is still offering new discoveries who knows what awaits with the Cholula pyramid complex, or just how large of a possible site the surrounding area may hide. Cholula and Teotihuacan were contemporaries. Both show similar style and Cholula I suspect upon not only further exploration of the pyramid but the surrounding location that it will show similar sophistication and may probably prove to be a much larger over all site than that of its contemporary Teotihuacan.

Hopefully it too will have a labyrinth of tunnels and undiscovered chambers with possible burial crypts or rare ancient artifacts. My imagination takes off. The true mystery is the knowledge that like many other Mesoamerican sites there are older and earlier layers the deeper they go...



I will update this thread as more becomes available and or discovered. I have a feeling there are still some rather astounding and amazing discoveries yet to be revealed. As always stay tuned and I hope you enjoyed this first of a series.

As an Anthropologist at heart, I can say you have amazed me What an awesome thread OP! I'm in awe.

reply to post by Lmm2004


Thank you I appreciate the feedback. Please feel free to view some of my older threads linked below available in my signature and welcome to ATS.

I hope you enjoy your stay and am looking forward to reading your replies, participation and interests.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Nice work again
Mr slayer69

S F

Very cool. Good find.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wonderful thread S69!

Your use of pictures really drives home how massive this site is. It would be awesome to see it all exposed, too bad they can't relocate that church, or put it on stilts and install an elevator.



I understand that the pyramid once had cladding as well, it must have been beautiful in its time.

Thanks for bringing us Cholula! Merry Christmas.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Every time I get a big head and start to think I know everything you humble me by bringing out something really cool that I either knew nothing about or very little. Cholula is a site I know absolutely nothing about so I thank you in advance for another sleepless night while I digest my way through the material. As always, thank you for your keen eye for cool information and the ability to create a thread that makes me as wide eyed as when I saw my first T-Rex skeleton at age 5.

S&F Slayer.

Great read and points to ponder!

The more I read the more more impressed and amazed by what I've learned about this site. Cholula was and still is the longest continually inhabited site in the Western Hemisphere from about 100- 1519 CE at which point I came across this really interesting paper on the massacre and demise of Cholula-

www.academia.edu...

reply to post by peter vlar


Keep reading.

There are some rather interesting aspects of the site.

reply to post by SLAYER69


One has to wonder how a metropolis such as that ever came to be buried under feet of earth. It would be like London becoming buried. What could have happened and where did the people go? Why would they abandon a functioning city?

Dude your Awesome!!!!
If ATS isnt paying you they should be.

Have you ever considered writing a book?
Id buy it

S&F and thanks for giving me something to read for the next few hrs

This will be part of a series? Excellent!

Nice find, SLAYER. What seems to be a very intricate yet massive complex is hidden under mountains of rubble and dirt. I sometimes wonder if they built that church so no one would find what lies underneath...but I don't want to get too excited. Maybe they really didn't know about the site beforehand. It is still extremely captivating and would be an excellent place to visit.

Great find and I am anticipating the next!

reply to post by SLAYER69


These Ancient cities are pure genius looking to me... great Architecture and awesome to look at. I'd say much more Visually Spectacular then some of the Buildings and Cities we have today minus the Church sitting on top. Going by these Images of what the City looked like, you would be hard-pressed to find an Architect today who would come up with such great looking Buildings. Viewing these Cities actually makes me think I'm viewing a Set on a Star Trek or Star Wars Movie! Actually looks like these Ancient Cities belong on another Planet or the Builders came fro another Planet!

If you look at an Aerial view of say London or New York and then compare those to what is shown in this Thread, you will see that this Ancient site does look better. Well, to me anyway. Its all concrete, Metal and glass now and no space at all.

upload.wikimedia.org...

www.bbc.co.uk...

static4.depositphotos.com...

notmyholiday.com...

static4.depositphotos.com...

Anyone who thinks living amongst these Cities today is great, then I think you need your head examined.

What a wonderful thread!!! I am so amazed by the beauty and level of achievement the meso Americans were able to get to!!! Awesome, truly, in the full sense of the word!!! Being very New here, am unable to give you a well deserved flag, wow!!!

Hell of a thread sir! Makes me wonder what knowledge was lost forever during the Spanish conquest of the Americas. Perhaps some of it will be rediscovered in these hidden passages? Can only hope that the right people find it. Human history has not been accurately written yet as the more we look the farther back we see.

Just wanted to thank everybody who showed interest. I'll be posting other locations soon.
Have a great weekend.

reply to post by SLAYER69

All too often I read comments and opinions expressed that the 'New Worlds' civilizations weren't that amazing or sophisticated never mind the age or level of developments. I think the above images dispel this notion. It's obvious to anyone viewing these sites objectively cannot deny they were not only sophisticated in design, appearance and esthetics but for function as well.

Those pictures are amazing. & I agree with your statement above.

What gets me excited and fascinates me is how those cities are layed out in a
grid like fashion. It makes me think of our cities today and how we still lay
ours out in similar grid designs for reasons such as building connecting electrical
grids or connecting plumbing through out our cities.

So when i look at those pictures you have posted that is one of first things I think
about. They must of been building their cities in grid fashions for similar reasons as
we do today. So yes, Sophistication Indeed.

leolady

Slayer, always such interesting threads you produce! S&F

Forgive me as I often follow your threads without replying
content, only as seeking ancient monument knowledge
('hunter-gatherer' of information)

Long have I studied the ancient mysterious monuments strewn
across this great planet.

Now Teo, amongst others with it's hidden knowledge has long
since piqued my interest, and it gives the appearance that they
were built with someone whom possessed a greater knowledge
than we do today.
It's as if builders of such mysterious monoliths were left brain thinkers
and left their monuments in an abstract art fashion.

Please allow me to explain;

Have a close detailed look at this monument at Teo.
If you scrutinize the detail in an abstract view, what
you see is a depiction of our Solar System
The squares at different levels is the rotation of each planet
as is the heap at the top of the pyra-temple is an allocation to the sun.

It is even offset at stages showing an eratic movement to certain planets.

I have tried to show and explain this idea in this pic;


Please forgive my intrusion of your thread, I really would like your opinion

Excellent work mate, I look forward to more.

Be well

Thanks for posting this