Religious Knowledge Quizzes (online); Pew Forum. Long & Short versions

reply to post by wildtimes


Yeah, something along those lines would satisfy me. I mean, a simple shepherd can know more about the essence of religion than the most educated scholar. A religious life flows from that essence, and it can't be taught. But imagine that shepherd trying to take a quiz!

Have you heard the story of Moses and the shepherd?

Moses heard a shepherd on the road praying,
“God,
where are you? I want to help You, to fix Your shoes
and comb your hair. I want to wash Your clothes
and pick the lice off. I want to bring You milk,
to kiss Your little hands and feet when it’s time
for You to go to bed. I want to sweep Your room
and keep it neat. God, my sheep and my goats
are Yours. All I can say, remembering You,
is ayyyyyyy and ahhhhhhhh.”

Moses could stand it no longer.
“Who are you talking to?”

“The one who made us,
and made the earth and made the sky.”
“Don’t talk about shoes and socks with God!
And what’s this with Your little hands and feet?
Such blasphemous familiarity sounds like
you’re chatting with your uncles.
Only something that grows needs milk.
Only someone with feet needs shoes. Not God!
Even if you meant God’s human representatives,
as when God said, ‘I was sick, and you did not visit me,’
even then this tone would be foolish and irreverent.

Use appropriate terms. Fatima is a fine name
for a woman, but if you call a man Fatima,
it’s an insult. Body-and-birth language
are right for us on this side of the river,
but not for addressing the Origin,
not for Allah.”

The shepherd repented and tore his clothes and sighed
and wandered out into the desert.

A sudden revelation
came then to Moses. God’s voice:
You have separated Me
from one of my own. Did you come as a prophet to unite,
or to sever?
I have given each being a separate and unique way
of seeing and knowing and saying that knowledge.
What seems wrong to you is right for him.
What is poison to one is honey to someone else.

Purity and impurity, sloth and diligence in worship,
these mean nothing to Me.
I am apart from all that.
Ways of worshipping are not to be ranked as better
or worse than one another.
Hindus do Hindu things.
The Dravidian Muslims in India do what they do.
It’s all praise, and it’s all right.

It’s not Me that’s glorified in acts of worship.
It’s the worshippers! I don’t hear the words
They say. I look inside at the humility.
That broken-open lowliness is the Reality,
not the language! Forget phraseology.
I want burning, burning.
Be friends
with your burning. Burn up your thinking
and your forms of expression!
Moses,
those who pay attention to ways of behaving
and speaking are one sort.
Lovers who burn are another.”

Don’t impose a property tax
on a burned out village. Don’t scold the Lover.
The “wrong” way he talks is better than a hundred
“right” ways of others.
Inside the Kaaba
it doesn’t matter which direction you point
your prayer rug!
The ocean diver doesn’t need snowshoes!
The Love-Religion has no code or doctrine.
Only God.
So the ruby has nothing engraved on it!
It doesn’t need markings.
God began speaking
deeper mysteries to Moses. Vision and words,
which cannot be recorded here, poured into
and through him. He left himself and came back.
He went to eternity and came back here.
Many times this happened.
It’s foolish of me
to try and say this. If I did say it,
it would uproot our human intelligences.
It would shatter all writing pens.

Moses ran after the shepherd.
He followed the bewildered footprints,
in one place moving straight like a castle
across a chessboard. In another, sideways,
like a bishop.
Now surging like a wave cresting,
now sliding down like a fish,
with always his feet
making geomancy symbols in the sand,
recording his wandering state.

Moses finally caught up with him.
“I was wrong. God has revealed to me
that there are no rules for worship.
Say whatever
and however your loving tells you to. Your sweet blasphemy
is the truest devotion.
Through you a whole world is freed.
Loosen your tongue and don’t worry what comes out.
It’s all the light of the Spirit.”

The shepherd replied,
“Moses, Moses,
I’ve gone beyond even that.
You applied the whip and my horse shied and jumped
out of itself. The Divine Nature and my human nature
came together.
Bless your scolding hand and your arm.
I can’t say what has happened.
What I’m saying now
is not my real condition. It can’t be said.”

The shepherd grew quiet.

When you look in a mirror,
you see yourself, not the state of the mirror.
The fluteplayer puts breath into a flute,
and who makes the music? Not the flute.
The Fluteplayer!

Whenever you speak praise
or thanksgiving to God, it’s always like this
dear shepherd’s simplicity.
When you eventually see
through the veils to how things really are,
you will keep saying again
and again,
“This is certainly not like
we thought it was!” -Rumi

reply to post by BlueMule

When you eventually see
through the veils to how things really are,
you will keep saying again
and again,
“This is certainly not like
we thought it was!” -Rumi

Brilliant.

You know, when I first started reading the poem,

Moses heard a shepherd on the road praying,
“God,
where are you? I want to help You, to fix Your shoes
and comb your hair. I want to wash Your clothes
and pick the lice off. I want to bring You milk,
to kiss Your little hands and feet when it’s time
for You to go to bed. I want to sweep Your room
and keep it neat. God, my sheep and my goats
are Yours. All I can say, remembering You,
is ayyyyyyy and ahhhhhhhh.”

I thought:

Moses is gonna say "I'm him! I'm God!" and take advantage of the poor guy.
But....
I kept reading.
That is a beautiful message, BlueMule. Thanks.

Wow, finally a quiz that I didn't totally bomb at. I had to guess the John Edwards one though. I don't even know what the Great Awakening is.

reply to post by EllaMarina


Glad you joined in, Ella!!

I had not heard of John Edwards and the Enlightenment thing until a few years ago when I read William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature. If you want a link, let me know.

reply to post by wildtimes


Glad you liked it. Maybe you could ask Santa for a big book of Rumi's poetry for Christmas?

Anyway, this vid is my Christmas present to you.

reply to post by adjensen


What? You (and the pope) are the reason(s) I missed one, hah! The only one I missed was the one about salvation and I thought you guys said that salvation is attained through faith alone. Apparently it's only protestants? 100%... pffft.

Wanna shed some holy light on this one? What is required according to Catholicism for salvation?

reply to post by Cuervo

What is required according to Catholicism for salvation?

The church teaches that we are saved by faith, but not by faith alone. There are passages in the Bible that support both sides, though most of the "faith alone" parts are from Paul's epistles, rather than the Gospels, which has stuff like this:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46 NIV)

That makes it pretty clear that works are required for salvation. Now, a dyed in the wool Sola Fide believer will say that acts, such as the charity Jesus demands in that passage, are not required for salvation, but are indicative of it, and that those who do not do good works are not saved, but at that level, it becomes a "I say toe-may-toe, you say toe-mah-toe" sort of thing.

You might find this article interesting: Justification by Faith Alone by Jimmy Akin

reply to post by adjensen


That's a relief. So basically, it's sort of like a "walk the talk" type of thing. Why would a politician ever be a Catholic?!

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess to me, "by faith alone" sort of assumes you will be acting on it by a natural byproduct but I forget that there are many people who just wear the badge to get the donuts but don't ever actually protect and serve. You are right; toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.


ps edit - I did Google it but there are many opinions (like you said)

reply to post by Cuervo

I got 91 percent on the 32 question quiz.

This is great, guys/gals!!

Be impressed with yourselves. It's okay to feel good about having well-rounded educations and knowledge.

One interesting thing about this thread is that I fully expect that only those who score well will post their results; or those who are completely without 'prejudice' toward their own views - and are willing to admit it.

Those who score poorly would probably not want to advertise that to the boards. I don't blame them - I probably wouldn't either, if I had a "dog in the fight." But, I don't.

I wish there was a way to know how many readers (both members and guests) actually go to take the quizzes...like, at least have them say "I took it". But, there's not. *shrug

adjensen
The church teaches that we are saved by faith, but not by faith alone.

That's the one I got wrong. I said that both catholics and protestants are 'faith alone saves'.
The quiz says it's just protestants who say that. But I dispute that. I'm pretty sure that
the Catholic church says it's faith that saves. Those who are able to do so will naturally
do 'good works' because of that faith so it'll be an outward sign, but at the core is the faith.

I've been looking it up since taking the test ....
Still reading ....

FlyersFan

adjensen
The church teaches that we are saved by faith, but not by faith alone.

That's the one I got wrong. I said that both catholics and protestants are 'faith alone saves'.
The quiz says it's just protestants who say that. But I dispute that. I'm pretty sure that
the Catholic church says it's faith that saves. Those who are able to do so will naturally
do 'good works' because of that faith so it'll be an outward sign, but at the core is the faith.

I've been looking it up since taking the test ....
Still reading ....

Actually, he gave a pretty robust answer when compared to what you'll find with google. The difference between most Christian churches and Catholicism seems to be the expected amount of living in the footsteps of their god.

So like, a mainstream bible-belt church goer can get baptized and then go on a murder rampage but he's still "saved". But a Catholic is at least expected to not be a douche and to actually treat people like Jesus would have. It helps me wrap my brain around it by thinking of paying parole. A protestant pays parole and thinks it exonerates them from any future sins where a Catholic sees the parole as simply that; a parole with a future judgement date. So they get salvation but still have accountability to themselves. No offense to protestants but I kind of dig it that way.

reply to post by FlyersFan

That's the one I got wrong. I said that both catholics and protestants are 'faith alone saves'.
The quiz says it's just protestants who say that. But I dispute that. I'm pretty sure that
the Catholic church says it's faith that saves.

Nope. That was one of the cornerstones of the Reformation -- Sola Fide, "by faith alone". For the Protestant theologians, particularly those of Reformed Theology, the question was whether a flawed human being could contribute to their salvation, or whether it was 100% the working of God. The extreme view, that of the Synod of Dort, produced TULIP, where the "T" stands for "Total Depravity", which explains why man cannot contribute to their salvation and are thus saved by faith alone:

Although total depravity does not mean that all men will display evil to the fullest extent possible, or that one man may never be good relative to another, or “in the right” when it comes to a particular situation; yet it does mean that no man can ever do anything whatsoever that is completely acceptable in the sight of God. The very best acts of fallen man are tainted and imperfect, and thus loathsome before the altogether holy God of creation. Basically, the doctrine of total depravity, in a calvinistic soteriology, intends two things: first, that no act of man is ultimately good or perfectly acceptable to God; and second, that man is so corrupted by sin, that he is utterly unable to contribute anything to his regeneration, even the simplest act of seeking God, believing in him, or coming to him. (Source)

My score was 97 percent. I missed one question. The one I missed was about salvation by faith alone, I thought Catholics believed that also though I did know works are very important to them.

Not bad for a fundamentalist Baptist.

reply to post by celticsea


Well done you!!!

EllaMarina
I had to guess the John Edwards one though. I don't even know what the Great Awakening is.

Hahaha! Me too. I just chose the oldest looking name . The rest was all known, though.

I got 15 out of 15 in the first quiz, and 32 out of 32 in the second (which repeated many of the questions).

reply to post by babloyi


But you got Maimomedes (sp?)? Well done indeed.

I knew the John Edwards one.

reply to post by wildtimes

Maimomedes was a pretty important medieval jewish figure- most of jewish theology today is based off his works! I guess the "Great Awakening" wasn't really relevant to the world outside of the US. I've looked up on it now, though.

reply to post by wildtimes


Ummm.....wow 96% (I missed the question on transubstantiation and transliteration)......pity that, as the answer should be...C...or..........both.

YouSir

32/32. And I'm not atheist/agnostic/Mormon/Jewish, either. I feel really arrogant.
Actually, I was lucky. Maimonides???