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US prosecutor fires back over arrest of Indian diplomat

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posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 07:54 AM
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The lead U.S. prosecutor in the case against an Indian diplomat now at the center of a diplomatic uproar fired back against those calling for her release, issuing a defiant statement defending the charges





For any part of the US government to defend charges against anyone for anything is the height of hypocracy.

Maybe this prosecutor should file these charges using the Dewey Decimal System .... in between charges of the wholesale drone murders of non-combatent men, women, children and the charges for the looting/fraud of our entire country by government, Wall Street and the Banksters.




posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by Telos
 


We are talking about this because there is a lot of misinformation on both sides and we are trying to wade through it. If that annoys you, you are more than welcome to not comment in this thread anymore.


Was a figure of speech. Take it easy Maury... ;lol



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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And for those people screaming caste system , she is from the lowest caste and those saying the maid was not treated properly , read my previous post.

If Americans can get diplomatic immunity for murder , read about Raymond Davis and can get immunity for Genocide(Bhopal gas tragedy) read about Anderson .

Do you do a cavity search and nude body search on a diplomat who is framed for non violent crimes ? and also the Diplomat has counselor immunity for non violent crimes as per Article 41 of the Vienna convention ...
The Diplomat if found guilty should have been asked to leave the country not humiliate her and carry out a cavity search , AS per Indian laws this is nothing but RAPE sanctioned by the U.S Govt. NO ....don't even go to Indian social issues as a sad excuse for your govt. conduct .
edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



I find it Hilarious Americans here making all kinds of accuses like slavery and caste system without even being educated on the issue . She is getting enough facilities worth probably more than $6000. Now the stupid maid lost her free health insurance, dental insurance, free entertainment, free food , free clothing , free housing , free IPad , Sim , Mobile , Congratulations America you have a new Welfare recipient who will need to get Obamacare




Who the Hell gave America the right to give Visa's to her parents while they had criminal charges against them , that too two days before the diplomats arrest ?? Do you realize it takes more than 3 years for a VISA application to get cleared ?


edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Read article 41 of the Vanna convention , She had limited diplomatic immunity as she carried a diplomats passport and according to that , she had Diplomatic immunity she cannot be arrested for any crimes that are not of GRAVE nature... United states is blatantly wrong

If US govt. diplomats can get away with murder , manslaughter and Genocide with concocted Diplomatic immunity , whats so wrong in Visa Falsification ? Remember She did not do the Visa falsification , its the Maid and the US Embassy which is responsible for the Visa Falsification as the maid had gone alone for the interview and filed the Visa application herself .....


If U.S goes ahead with this case , i can assure you Half of your diplomats in Delhi can be arrested for one crime or the other..

Warren Anderson and his Crimes- Given immunity


Raymond Davis - Murder two civilans in Pakistan

Diplomatic immunity getting away with manslaughter


But am guessing Laws, rules and Vienna convention only applies to any who is not from the U.S
edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by juspassinthru
 


The U.S. prosecutor isn't responsible for the actions of the U.S. Government overseas. He is responsible for making sure he presents a fair case to get the people charged with crimes convicted. Should I be mad at the customer service guy at Bank of America because the bank steals millions of dollars from U.S. citizens through shady banking practices or the bank in general?



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 12:23 PM
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Right from the Horses mouth



Regret not enough, US must apologise: Experts on Devyani arrest

Former US administration officials and experts believe that the US must consider making a more formal apology admitting that the manner in which Devyani Khobragade was taken under arrest was a mistake and should have never happened. Aziz Haniffa reports

Karl ‘Rick’ Inderfurth, erstwhile assistant secretary of state for South Asian affairs in the Clinton administration, told rediff.com, “The incident involving India’s deputy consul general was outrageous, deplorable and inexcusable. Period. Full stop.

A formal US apology to Khobragade is called for -- as well as social and cultural sensitivity training for the US Marshalls Service and the State Department’s public affairs office,



Chinese and Russians will probably send a personal congratulations letter to U.S Attorney Preet Barrara for successfully ruining a relationship by more than 5-10 years .




Exclusive! Kerry, Burns, Biswal not informed of action against Khobragade

The investigation into and action being taken by the US State Department's Diplomatic Security Service against Dr Devyani Khobragade were not shared with Secretary of State John F Kerry, Deputy Secretary of State William Burns or Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Nisha Desai Biswal, reveals Rediff.com's Aziz Haniffa from Washington, DC.

Ironically, at the time Kerry dropped in at the meeting between Burns and Singh and the respective delegations, and both sides were appreciating the camaraderie between Washington and New Delhi -- so much so that India officials said, "The partnership has reached a level where you can discuss pretty much anything, including issues where there are differences in perspective

Thus, when Burns and Biswal came to know of the Khobragade case as everyone else did through news reports, the horse had already left the barn, or as one diplomatic observer told this correspondent, "The # had hit the fan," with New Delhi taking a set of actions unprecedented in the annals of the US-India diplomatic and political experience.


As of right now American tourists have better facilities than American Diplomats

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)





According to the questioner, two Filipino women were rescued escaping the Saudi diplomatic military attaché's residence in a Washington suburb. But "no Saudi diplomats have been charged, none of them have been cavity-searched."


Double standards i guess ... Saudi's can't be touched in the U.S , nor the Russian with $1.5 million Medicare scam .

But nooo lets generalize all Indians to be Rapists , murderers, Women abusers etc... etc... at every chance we get

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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So your gonna go down swinging on this one.. ok.

Lets correct a few things -



maddy21
If Americans can get diplomatic immunity for murder , read about Raymond Davis and can get immunity for Genocide(Bhopal gas tragedy) read about Anderson .


If you did some research you would have noted that the families of the 2 persons killed accepted a payout.

On March 16, 2011, Davis was released after the families of the two killed men were paid $2.4 million in diyya (a form of monetary compensation or blood money). Judges then acquitted him on all charges and Davis immediately departed Pakistan.[8][9][10][11]


Ultimately, in the case you mentioned here, the final determination was made by the family. His diplomatic status had nothing to do with no punishment.


As for the Anderson (Bhopal) case, again if you did a bit more research you would see it is still in their court system -

Civil and criminal cases are pending in the District Court of Bhopal, India, involving UCC and Warren Anderson, UCC CEO at the time of the disaster.[8][9] In June 2010, seven ex-employees, including the former UCIL chairman, were convicted in Bhopal of causing death by negligence and sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine of about $2,000 each, the maximum punishment allowed by Indian law. An eighth former employee was also convicted, but died before the judgement was passed.[1]


..... with convictions. The company, by the way, was also owned by Indian investors to the tune of 49%.



maddy21
Do you do a cavity search and nude body search on a diplomat who is framed for non violent crimes ? and also the Diplomat has counselor immunity for non violent crimes as per Article 41 of the Vienna convention ...

No really, she doesn't. Simply ignoring / trying to apply diplomatic status to her does not make it so. The fact she had no diplomatic status protection is evident by India's actions to try and transfer her to the UN mission.

Secondly, and this has been posted before, a body cavity search does not mean she was "probed" for lack of a better term. A body cavity search can be as simple as being told to open your mouth so they can check for hidden items. Again, the manner in which that portion is being reported / insinuated is again an example of willful ignorance of the facts.

Since she does not have Diplomatic Immunity, she can be searched.


maddy21
The Diplomat if found guilty should have been asked to leave the country not humiliate her and carry out a cavity search , AS per Indian laws this is nothing but RAPE sanctioned by the U.S Govt. NO ....don't even go to Indian social issues as a sad excuse for your govt. conduct .
edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

She does not have diplomatic immunity, which means she can be held, charged and tried for the case the USADA is making.

As a side note way to try an invoke examples that have absolutely nothing to do with this case. Rape? REally? Are you that intent on trying to make the US out to be the bad guys in this that you will intentionally invoke items that have absolutely nothing to do with the case?

Are you from India? Or are you just one of those people who allow blind hatred coupled with ignorance of facts and law to guide your position?



maddy21
Who the Hell gave America the right to give Visa's to her parents while they had criminal charges against them , that too two days before the diplomats arrest ?? Do you realize it takes more than 3 years for a VISA application to get cleared ?

The American people did when they voted their representatives into office, as is done in India. Again, nice try..


What other issues can we clear up for you?
edit on 20-12-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

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posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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maddy21
Read article 41 of the Vanna convention , She had limited diplomatic immunity as she carried a diplomats passport and according to that , she had Diplomatic immunity she cannot be arrested for any crimes that are not of GRAVE nature... United states is blatantly wrong

Changing your story now I see...

Limited diplomatic immunity? The very issue I brought up that you argued with me over. That limited immunity only applies in the course of her duties. Her crime does not prevent the action the PA is taking. this is not a hard concept to understand.

Please do research before making claims.

Read section 3 article 29 for further reference.



maddy21
If US govt. diplomats can get away with murder , manslaughter and Genocide with concocted Diplomatic immunity , whats so wrong in Visa Falsification ? Remember She did not do the Visa falsification , its the Maid and the US Embassy which is responsible for the Visa Falsification as the maid had gone alone for the interview and filed the Visa application herself .....

Again an argument based on not having all the facts. Please, research before making a claim. Or at the very least admit that you just hate the US and no matter what happens, you will blame the US because you simply refuse to learn about how things work.

As for your comment about Visa falsification. If you actually read the conventions in question, in addition to State Department / Federal Law, you would understand why that is an issue.



maddy21
If U.S goes ahead with this case , i can assure you Half of your diplomats in Delhi can be arrested for one crime or the other..

Ironic - An Indian citizen with no diplomatic immunity is charged for a crime, lawfully, and in accordance with UN / US treaties / laws, which you detest while at the same time you threaten to take action against Diplomats who have not broken Indian law.

Do I really need to point out the hypocrisy here?



maddy21
But am guessing Laws, rules and Vienna convention only applies to any who is not from the U.S.


The them on this site is to deny ignorance, not embrace it based on lack of knowledge.

On the off chance you missed it host countries are required by the very convention you keep bringing up to safeguard diplomats / embassies. If you and India would read the entire conventions we would not have to go down this road of you making wild and baseless accusations and the people of India would not be brought to a frenzy because Indian officals speaking to the media have no clue what they are talking about.

she broke the law....
She does NOT have diplomatic immunity...
Action taken against her is in accordance with treaties and US law.

next....



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 09:38 PM
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maddy21

Chinese and Russians will probably send a personal congratulations letter to U.S Attorney Preet Barrara for successfully ruining a relationship by more than 5-10 years .

India and their ignorance is what's destroying the relationship. Maybe they should teach their diplomat the do's and dont's before they send them to an embassy / consulate. While I get that your / India's viewpoint is to blame the US, it will not correct the problem and will only continue to cause confusion with the Indian government.


maddy21
The investigation into and action being taken by the US State Department's Diplomatic Security Service against Dr Devyani Khobragade were not shared with Secretary of State John F Kerry, Deputy Secretary of State William Burns or Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Nisha Desai Biswal, reveals Rediff.com's Aziz Haniffa from Washington, DC.

Rightfully so... Its because its a criminal investigation. Do I need to explain how these investigations work and who does and does not get access to it?


maddy21
Ironically, at the time Kerry dropped in at the meeting between Burns and Singh and the respective delegations, and both sides were appreciating the camaraderie between Washington and New Delhi -- so much so that India officials said, "The partnership has reached a level where you can discuss pretty much anything, including issues where there are differences in perspective

Thus, when Burns and Biswal came to know of the Khobragade case as everyone else did through news reports, the horse had already left the barn, or as one diplomatic observer told this correspondent, "The # had hit the fan," with New Delhi taking a set of actions unprecedented in the annals of the US-India diplomatic and political experience.

Actions based on ignorance and nothing more. I would refer India to the Conventions themselves... It would behoove them to read something before signing it. That way they might understand how it works.



maddy21
As of right now American tourists have better facilities than American Diplomats

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

yup... a proud day for India. Demonstrating how a nation state's temper tantrum looks.

But hey, its India.. They can behave however they want.



maddy21
According to the questioner, two Filipino women were rescued escaping the Saudi diplomatic military attaché's residence in a Washington suburb. But "no Saudi diplomats have been charged, none of them have been cavity-searched."


again, if you did research -
Officials investigate human trafficking claim at Virginia home of Saudi attache


Federal officials are investigating reports of human trafficking at the upscale Virginia home of a Saudi military attaché, after immigration agents removed two domestic workers from the house earlier this week.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers on Tuesday night removed the two alleged victims, Filipino women who claim the Saudi attaché confiscated their passports and made them work long hours without pay.

MyFoxDC.com reports that one of the women had tried to escape through a gap in the front gate as it was closing.

Officials responded to the McLean, Va., home following a tip that two workers were being held in circumstances that amounted to human trafficking.

According to real estate records, the Virginia home is owned by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's Armed Forces Office. MyFoxDC.com reports that the Saudi Embassy claims the compound is separate from their operation.

Immigrations and Customs Enforcement says their investigation is ongoing.


This next part is important -


If wrongdoing is uncovered, there would be immediate questions about diplomatic immunity.

State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell, at a briefing Thursday, did not say whether that would apply in this case, but acknowledged that the department "honors U.S. treaty obligations" with regard to immunity.

"But just to reiterate," he said, "under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, diplomats are under a duty to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving state."

He said the State Department is working with law enforcement agencies on the matter.

Click the link to read (and learn) about the rest of the article. Its an ongoing investigation.



maddy21
Double standards i guess ... Saudi's can't be touched in the U.S , nor the Russian with $1.5 million Medicare scam .

Not a double standard.. Its you not bothering to read / follow up / learn how this works. You are making accusations that aren't supported, and you are doing so in such a manner that your entire position seems to be you hate the US.

If you do that's fine, to each their own. However, at least have the decency to research before making a claim. After all, we would not want to create a double standard by allowing people to spout ignorance while at the same time teaching people to deny ignorance.




maddy21
But nooo lets generalize all Indians to be Rapists , murderers, Women abusers etc... etc... at every chance we get

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

Feel free to link us to the source documents for your accusation you just made.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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Xcathdra
Limited diplomatic immunity? The very issue I brought up that you argued with me over. That limited immunity only applies in the course of her duties. Her crime does not prevent the action the PA is taking. this is not a hard concept to understand.


Incorrect , limited immunity works at all times ...



Relevant clause is Article 41 which states,

1. Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority. (Grave crime is usually defined as Murder, Rape, Robbery etc. )

2. Except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this Article, consular officers shall not be committed to prison or liable to any other form of restriction in their personal freedom save in execution of a judicial decision of final effect.


3. If criminal proceedings are instituted against a consular officer, he must appear before the competent authorities. Nevertheless, the proceedings shall be conducted with the respect due to him by reason of his official position and, except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this Article, in a manner which will hamper the exercise of consular functions as little as possible.


Article 72 does discuss customarily favored treatment beyond the limits of the Convention. This could be what infuriates Indian officials so much. privilege that consider exists under Article 72.

link me Section 3 - article 29 as i cant find it



Again an argument based on not having all the facts. Please, research before making a claim. Or at the very least admit that you just hate the US and no matter what happens, you will blame the US because you simply refuse to learn about how things work.


I don't hate the U.S , am showcasing your sheer arrogance and moral superiority complex and world police attitude you people have... world would be a lot safer place if they kept their moral values to themselves and not imposed it on others ...



Ironic - An Indian citizen with no diplomatic immunity is charged for a crime, lawfully, and in accordance with UN / US treaties / laws, which you detest while at the same time you threaten to take action against Diplomats who have not broken Indian law.

Do I really need to point out the hypocrisy here?


Immunity or not, her rights were violated and she was sexually insulted over something which was clearly allowed to go out of control in last six months by the US govt. themselves over their inaction despite the repeated attempts by Indian govt. to fix the issue ... She was not a violent criminal her crime was of non violent nature, checking her privates for bombs or drugs is nonsensical and anyone justifying this needs to attend a psychologist. Arresting her in like she is some drug dealer in front of her kids was immoral and insensitive, if US wanted to arrest her she should just have been summoned for a surrender....




The them on this site is to deny ignorance, not embrace it based on lack of knowledge.


my point exactly




On the off chance you missed it host countries are required by the very convention you keep bringing up to safeguard diplomats / embassies. If you and India would read the entire conventions we would not have to go down this road of you making wild and baseless accusations and the people of India would not be brought to a frenzy because Indian officals speaking to the media have no clue what they are talking about.

she broke the law....
She does NOT have diplomatic immunity...
Action taken against her is in accordance with treaties and US law
.

First -Not wild or baseless accusations , America was responsible for this Aiding and abetting a fugitive and her family after her diplomatic Visa was withdrawn , that made her a fugitive in U.S. Mexicans immigrants aren't treated with so much respect and the law comes down on them, wonder why the law does not apply to the maid and her family .

Second- The maid's motive seems to have been to acquire a green card. In either case irrespective of what the maid's motive was this arrest is absolutely idiotic. She gave her Visa interview. She was specifically told what she was going to be paid. Her documents state so clearly so how the hell was this maid given a visa in the first place. Then she disappears and goes into hiding for a few months and gets a lawyer to blackmail the diplomat threatening to go to court unless she pays the maid a huge price much greater than the diplomat's salary and also wants the diplomat to help her get a PR. She worked for 7 months without even a whisper of discontent while enjoying all the perks including residence, food, electricity etc for free. What happened in these seven months when she did not raise any issue about pay? The husband of the diplomat files a complaint with the NYPD after the maid goes missing for stolen blackberry, consular documents, working log etc.. and again no response.The diplomat meanwhile issues a complaint on 5th of July of harassment. Zero response from US authorities. She suddenly reappears and gets a lawyer to blackmail the diplomat threatening to go to court unless she pays the maid a huge price much greater than the diplomat's salary and also wants the diplomat to help her get a PR.

She has not been found guilty by the court for the charges made against her so claiming she broke the law is stupid..

If anyone should be found guilty for a Visa fraud its the maid and the U.S embassy not the diplomat....classic case of entrapment ...



U.S. diplomat kills man in car crash, leaves Kenya

An American diplomat who police say was speeding crossed the center line in his SUV and rammed into a full mini-bus, killing a father of three whose widow is six months pregnant, officials said Friday.
U.S. Embassy officials in Nairobi rushed the American and his family out of Kenya the next day, leaving the crash victims with no financial assistance to pay for a funeral and for hospital bills for the eight or so others who were seriously injured.


As i said, rules and laws are only for other countries , U.S.A can do anything they want ,anywhere they want and get away with it
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posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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Ultimately, in the case you mentioned here, the final determination was made by the family. His diplomatic status had nothing to do with no punishment.


That's not an excuse, the fact is America tried their best to impose diplomatic immunity on him were none existed is proof of Hypocrisy...




Civil and criminal cases are pending in the District Court of Bhopal, India, involving UCC and Warren Anderson, UCC CEO at the time of the disaster.[8][9] In June 2010, seven ex-employees, including the former UCIL chairman, were convicted in Bhopal of causing death by negligence and sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine of about $2,000 each, the maximum punishment allowed by Indian law. An eighth former employee was also convicted, but died before the judgement was passed.[1]

..... with convictions. The company, by the way, was also owned by Indian investors to the tune of 49%.


Being the CEO of the company , he was responsible for their deaths and he had no diplomatic immunity , he was not even a diplomat . ON what Basis did America impose diplomatic immunity on the CEO of a company ?

He was charged with culpable homicide not amounting to murder. Yet, just four days after the tragedy, Anderson flew out of Bhopal on the official plane of Arjun Singh after US preassure ... Hypocrisy ??




No really, she doesn't. Simply ignoring / trying to apply diplomatic status to her does not make it so. The fact she had no diplomatic status protection is evident by India's actions to try and transfer her to the UN mission.

Secondly, and this has been posted before, a body cavity search does not mean she was "probed" for lack of a better term. A body cavity search can be as simple as being told to open your mouth so they can check for hidden items. Again, the manner in which that portion is being reported / insinuated is again an example of willful ignorance of the facts.


She was a senior counselor general who enjoyed limited diplomatic immunity , Its a clear violation of the Vienna convention to treat someone like this . She clearly and specifically stated what she was made to do.
Even Dominic Straus Khan who was charged with Rape was not cavity searched . This was a move to Deliberately insult a country citing loop holes in the system.



She does not have diplomatic immunity, which means she can be held, charged and tried for the case the USADA is making.

As a side note way to try an invoke examples that have absolutely nothing to do with this case. Rape? REally? Are you that intent on trying to make the US out to be the bad guys in this that you will intentionally invoke items that have absolutely nothing to do with the case?

Are you from India? Or are you just one of those people who allow blind hatred coupled with ignorance of facts and law to guide your position?


My country of Origin is irrelevant, U.S are the bad guys here citing a stupid loop holes arresting her in the worst possible way and then physically and sexually insulting her and then claiming she does not have immunity is Moronic , this issue could have been resolved in six months if U.S govt had not outright ignored the Indian govt. ..



The American people did when they voted their representatives into office, as is done in India. Again, nice try..


you make absolutely no sense , your govt. is responsible for interfering on internal issues of India and also responsible for immigration fraud .

edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:46 PM
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India and their ignorance is what's destroying the relationship. Maybe they should teach their diplomat the do's and dont's before they send them to an embassy / consulate. While I get that your / India's viewpoint is to blame the US, it will not correct the problem and will only continue to cause confusion with the Indian government.


Maybe you should teach your country men Basic manners on how to deal with people from different cultures , hiding behind "procedure" is rather pathetic.... If basic procedure is a cavity search and strip search then its the U.S legal system which should be fixed, not India . United states is completely to Blame for this . First you ignore India for six months entirely to resolve this issue and then suddenly be human rights champion and arrest the diplomat ... It might be normal for you to strip and cavity search your women but its not here .

Even Lindsay Lohan and and Britney spears who are repeated offenders were treated better ....



Rightfully so... Its because its a criminal investigation. Do I need to explain how these investigations work and who does and does not get access to it?


Even the Indian Embassy was not informed before the arrest , which is customary , your views are not shared by so many people within your white house itself , i wonder how you blame India for every god damn thing



Actions based on ignorance and nothing more. I would refer India to the Conventions themselves... It would behoove them to read something before signing it. That way they might understand how it works.


You don't respect the Vienna conventions yourself , make your own versions of it, find loop holes in the legal system which has been going on for more than 40 years and arrest a diplomat....and then you still blame India ?





yup... a proud day for India. Demonstrating how a nation state's temper tantrum looks.
But hey, its India.. They can behave however they want.


Make it what ever you want, you cant just bully any country in the world to your whims and fancies..




Feel free to link us to the source documents for your accusation you just made.


no need of documents, just reading your countryman's standard reply of blaming everything on caste system and supposed women's abuse speaks volumes
edit on 20-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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3. In fact considering your history with illegal immigrants, Why was it that even though the nanny absconded from her work place in July and had her Indian passport revoked she was not arrested by the NYPD ?

4.Why was it that when the Delhi High court passed an injunction against the nanny that she was not declared an illegal fugitive in the eyes of the law ?

5.Why did the govt. of US provide such special treatment to an illegal Indian fugitive from law ?

6.Why did the US further provide a visa for her husband and child by 10th December and facilitate their escape into the US and THEN arrest the Indian diplomat on 12th December ?




7. It was the nanny who claimed a salary of more than 4,500$ when she filled the DS 160 form for A3 visa. Why is she not arrested for Visa fraud when she already had a contract with the diplomat for a far lesser salary ?


The entire American version of events falls flat on its face , why the hell was the diplomat arrested then ?

8. Underpaying the maid is not a criminal offense, it comes under
civil offense. Then why was the bail amount kept at 250K?. How
could the US secretly move the maid and her family to US when
there is a case in Delhi court ? This is a much more severe
violation than underpaying a maid.


Forget about the Diplomat case , the U.S govt has done a far more serious violation than underpaying a maid , they are responsible for Immigration Fraud ...

8. It can be clearly seen that the nanny was the one perpetuating the fraud, worst that can be claimed is that the Indian diplomat aided and abetted in this fraud (alleged).

9. What did the U.S govt. down right refuse to deal with the issue for 6 months since June when she ran away . Refuse to even deal with the situation despite repeated attempts by the Indian govt.

Suddenly the maid runs away , sue's the diplomat and has her family flown in two days before her arrest , this reeks of conspiracy and an organized plot to intentionally humiliate the diplomat..
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posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 02:23 AM
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maddy21

Incorrect , limited immunity works at all times ...

Incorrect - For a G visa immunity only applies while performing their functions. she was not performing official functions. She was taken into custody for violating US / UN laws, in addition to the Conventions. Please take the time to read up on employee abuse when dealing with Diplomatic missions. They are subject to State and Federal law of the jurisdiction they are in.



maddy21
Relevant clause is Article 41 which states,

1. Consular officers ...
2. consular officers...
3. consular officer,


She is NOT a Consular with Diplomatic Immunity.. If she were, she would have a level A VISA. She does not, she has a level G VISA, which means she is NOT a Diplomat and article 41 does NOT apply to her case.

Check with the Indian Government on what her VISA status is. It will be listed as G.

Lets try this again - She is NOT a diplomat. She is accredited with a G-1 Visa. That is something you will have to accept since ignoring it undermines your entire argument. Those immune (the article 41 you keep trying to misuse / misapply) are those who hold A level Visa - IE Ambassadors / Consular Officials / Charge D'affaires / High Commissioner's.

To repeat -
She is not an Ambassador / Consular / Chargés D'affaires / High Commissioner
She does NOT have diplomatic Immunity.
She has "limited" immunity and that immunity only applies when she is engaged in official functions.

As for a link to Article 29.. If you actually read the conventions you would know where to find it since its a part of the same document you are trying to misapply.


CHAPTER III : Privileges and Immunities, Diplomatic and Consular Relations, etc


Its not arrogance nor is it a moral superiority complex. Its me telling you that your information is incorrect, its being misapplied, and instead of learning the right information, you are launching attacks left and right while repeating information that has been proven to not apply.

Even the Indian government has addressed this issue and her status. You should speak to them and get on the same page.


CHAPTER III PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES, DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR RELATIONS, ETC 13 . United Nations Convention on Jurisdictional Immunities of States and Their Property New York, 2 December 2004


The issue with the above, which is part of the argument you are trying to apply, is this part -


Not yet in force:
in accordance with article 30 which reads as....


On the off chance you are not aware - There are 11 additional agreements in place in addition to the original Geneva Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

The key to understanding the additions is simple - The additions only apply to those countries who have signed and ratified the treaty addition. Has India? has the US?

Information you should be familiar with.

As for the ridiculous argument about the assault - get real. She was searched in accordance with law and whether embarrassed by it or not is not relveant. You really are that desperate to try and cling to any hint of impropriety aren't you?

What else do you want to try to argue next?


As for the reminder of your posts that followed. You really are jumping all over the place aren't you? Your position has shifted each time you post when its determined the info you are using is either incorrect / wrong / doesn't apply.

As far as manners go please practice what you preach. Manners would suggest you be familiar with the topic and how the laws / treaties apply. Simply putting your fingers in your ears when its info you don't want to hear does not invalidate it, nor does it make your position anything other than weaker.

We can continue to go in circles, but the fact remains you are incorrect on your interpretation of her diplomatic status. You are incorrect on her immunity status. You are incorrect y trying to apply article 41 since she does not qualify for it.

The Indian Government accepts this... Why are you incapable of doing the same?

Read the links and info, research the info and understand it, then come back and present your next argument. Its not relevant if you like me or the US. What is relevant is to learn and take from this what you can. that way the next time something like this happens, and it will since it occurs every year with the bulk of countries, you will be better able to understand and articulate your position.

As a side note - I have been doing law enforcement for over 10 years now. My training included contact / encounters with foreign officials and what can and cannot occur. I have linked you to the relevant US / UN and Law Enforcement Material. Did you bother to read any of them?

When we have contact with a foreign national we are trained on what type of documents to ask for, how to check VISA status, how to check Interpol / State Department / other agency databases / contacts. What occurred in New York is no different and they followed the established laws and treaty obligations for a person of her "diplomatic rank".

Your entire argument is undermined by the Indian government trying to move her post to the UN position, which is a full diplomatic position, which means it would raise her VISA from G to A. That cannot work since it would violate protocols being the host country has to agree to the change in status.

Again, someone in India fell asleep at the switch and instead of admitting they made a mistake, they want to blame everyone else but themselves.
edit on 21-12-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 03:25 AM
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reply to post by maddy21
 


On the point of this limited immunity and you're "grave crime" qualifier, the definition of a "grave crime" in the US (and the UK and many other countries) is that it it be a felony (rather than a misdemeanour) or punishable by more than 1 year in prison. I think the charges this woman is facing fit nicely into that qualifying bracket, so the rest of your argument falls to pieces.


Xcathdra
Are you from India? Or are you just one of those people who allow blind hatred coupled with ignorance of facts and law to guide your position?


Yes, he is. He pops up from time to time in UK based threads spouting all manner of revisionist or downright made up crap which would appear to come from some deep-seated hatred of all things Western coupled with a well entrenched superiority (inferiority?) complex about India.

Now, I started out thinking this was a case of the US having another diplo-brain fart and making an ass of themselves, but the more I read the more I think it is a case of India being in the wrong and attempting to abuse the diplomatic process and protections afforded to their mission.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Thank you for the excellent and informative posts. That really helped clear up the situation for me. Thanks for doing your research, and saving me a lot of time.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I appreciate your research , but i also appreciate a reply to the points i have made repeatedly in this forum without a replies...

I will check her Visa status and the privileges and reply back , can you link me the source ?
I also want link for article 29 you said earlier but no link was provided ..


I have asked you seven questions , some of them repeatedly , i don't understand why you choose to completely ignore it ? I have several problems with this , not just one ..my stance has not changed form the very beginning , its just your attempt to undermine my argument...nothing more ..

-My problem is with her Immunity(if it existed or not)
-The Rather Barbaric treatment of the Diplomat even as she is a nonviolent offender
-Why U.S was sleeping for 60 years and suddenly wakes up to this case

The rest of the posts were to simply highlight the fact that America has also enforced immunity on its diplomats were none existed . SO America's attempt to Demonize the woman over an allegation( which itself is questionably) is very very suspicious .. AM simple going to copy paste my previous post until you give a detailed reply





- In fact considering your history with illegal immigrants, Why was it that even though the nanny absconded from her work place in July and had her Indian passport revoked she was not arrested by the NYPD ?

-Why was it that when the Delhi High court passed an injunction against the nanny that she was not declared an illegal fugitive in the eyes of the law ?

-Why did the govt. of US provide such special treatment to an illegal Indian fugitive from law ?

-Why did the US further provide a visa for her husband and child by 10th December and facilitate their escape into the US and THEN arrest the Indian diplomat on 12th December ?


- It was the nanny who claimed a salary of more than 4,500$ when she filled the DS 160 form for A3 visa. Why is she not arrested for Visa fraud when she already had a contract with the diplomat for a far lesser salary ? why the hell was the diplomat arrested then ?

8. Underpaying the maid is not a criminal offense, it comes under
civil offense. Then why was the bail amount kept at 250K?. How
could the US secretly move the maid and her family to US when
there is a case in Delhi court ? This is a much more severe
violation than underpaying a maid.


8. It can be clearly seen that the nanny was the one perpetuating the fraud, worst that can be claimed is that the Indian diplomat aided and abetted in this fraud (alleged).

9. What did the U.S govt. down right refuse to deal with the issue for 6 months since June when she ran away . Refuse to even deal with the situation despite repeated attempts by the Indian govt.

Suddenly the maid runs away , Sue's the diplomat and has her family flown in two days before her arrest , this reeks of conspiracy and an organized plot to intentionally humiliate the diplomat..






Trouble brewing SInce June

United States Entire position in this case is questionable . Why did they Refuse to solve the issue for 6 months since June when Indian govt has been asking the United states to resolve the issue but it was met with ignorance . This is an Issue which could have been solved in silence , but U.S chose to make this an issue completely safeguarding the criminal case which was going on against the Maid in India




there is so much to this case which is unanswered . If you think I have Bias or hate against Americans...no i don't , But i outright refuse to believe they did this out of concern of the Maid .

India has been using Maids and paying them similar Salaries for 60 years , why now ? why that woman ? why did the woman work for 7 months and then run away with document and cellphone ? Do you realize her father worked in the U.S Embassy in New Delhi ? something does not feel right ...
edit on 21-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Am not going to allow you to derail the thread as you folks usually do...
Just keep your British companions from being obsessed with poverty porn on every thread .
Respect is a two way process , if you people insult and make fun of suffering of people and laugh at the books of a poor man comfortably sitting in your homes in the west... i Will not tolerate it ... peace



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


The way I see it, this situation is pretty clear cut to me. If the diplomat has broken the law, then regardless of their status, they ought to be arrested, processed, and if found guilty, punished according to the law pertaining to their offense. If they have not committed an offense under the law, then they should be freed at the moment that the fact becomes clear.

The whole issue of diplomatic immunity for dignitaries and diplomats is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I do not much care whether immunity for diplomats is necessary so that affairs of state, negotiations on military and financial co-operation, and a whole host of other international interactions can be administrated. If a way cannot be found, for diplomats to do their job without being immune to the law of the land they find themselves in, then they should not be doing that job at all.

It does not matter whether we are talking about British diplomats in China, or Indian diplomats in the states, or any combination thereof. Diplomats and dignitaries should be subject to the same laws and restrictions as anyone else standing in any nation on this planet, because if they are not, then that means that they have no accountability for any illegal actions they may partake of. While I would certainly recognise that laws are written by rulers, and that not all rulers are just, or fair, and that this has a significant effect on whether or not their laws are just and fair, I would not agree that it is anyones right to break a law, simply because it is not followed in the land of their birth.

Simply put, though various nations on this Earth have laws which I find utterly detestable, if I happened to be stupid enough to visit any of them, I would consider it the height of bad form, to break even the stupidest of them whilst in the country. That said, I would not be stupid enough to visit a country which had laws so utterly repressive as to put me in significant danger of arrest. And I do mean stupid by the way, as opposed to brave.

Diplomacy is not supposed to be a career which offers those who are active within it a life free of consequence, and having individuals wandering about, who could create single handed crime waves without fear of prosecution, does not advance international co-operation one iota. In this specific instance, underpaying staff might be fine in India, but not in many other places, and if she was underpaying her staff, then she ought to be shafted for it as far as I am concerned.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 



Bro...but my question is why was U.S silent for 60 years as this has been the common norm for every diplomat and Embassy staff .. Why now ?

Americans are usually very very strict when it comes to immigration and providing a Green card, why was there such a hurry to provide a green card for the Maid and her family ?



I agree with the rest of your post....
edit on 21-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



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