Reading the Bible with a Spirtual eye

Many of the people I have open debates with on ATS know the content of the Bible better than most Christians, however the message the content is meant to get across always seems to completely elude them. I would say that for those non-believers on ATS get past your pride, and actually try your hardest to talk to and connect with God before you read Scripture. Anyone can read a book, and cherry pick little parts to make their ideas sounds Biblical. The Mormon Church are some of the best at doing this..The only way to make sure something is doctrine is if it fits with the whole Bible not just one part. For example, Many Christians say Gays are condemned to hell, however, no where in the Bible does it say that. It mentions homosexuality as a sin, but so is lying.

The point of the Bible is to explain that all sin has one consequence physical death and eternity in hell. That means whether its homosexuality, lying, lust, or murder they all have the same consequence(James 2:10). The only redemption from sin is the blood of a righteous man(1 peter 3:18). God came to Earth in Human Form and died for us, because it is impossible for one of us to pay the debt we owe.So God being fair and just but also loving and merciful, chose to take that debt upon himself, but we must accept that he paid that pardon otherwise we take that debt on our self, and the only way to pay it is hell.

These main points are throughout Scripture, and are part of the truth seen by those who read it with the correct agenda, finding truth.

If you believe that you can read something into a book
that isn't clearly stated then you must therefore believe
that you have a special ability, IE spiritually reading the
bible where others cannot, hence this claim is based
upon pride in and of itself.

That is the problem with religion, it is all based in pride
and ego, the claim that you have the correct answer to
the so called after life.

@ ServantOfTheLamb...... While the bible requires a sense of spirituality to be ubderstood, that doesn't mean we throw common sense and objectivity out of the window while reading the verses. Also, the meanings of certain words and phrases dont change for anybody. Claiming a ''spiritual eye'' does not mean distorting the meanings of words, or reading your own meanings into things.

@ServantOfTheLamb .......... Another thing when it comes to reading the Bible is the methodology that you use. Pay attention to the heirarchy of the speakers in the Bible. There is God, the angels, the prophets, Jesus, Paul etc.... in that order. So a statement by a latecomer Paul on a subject, like say, forgiveness of sin, or the nature of God... does NOT take precedende over Jesus or Gods own words on the same subject. Paul wrote, at best a commentary....and no commentary takes precedence over the original body of work.

And then bare in mind it was devised and written (and re-written and re-written etc etc) by men so no spirituality actually applies.

Spiritual eye? I think your going to have to give a definition for that one. Cause what it sounds like is one must believe in the contents of the book to understand it fully. In other words if one were to read tolken with their elvish eye then one could find the one ring and rule them all.

Spiritual eye? This baffles me. How about we look at it with our logical mind or our scientific method. Have you tried that yet?

You are admiting to reading into the story what you want to see. It may not say clearly that certain folks are going to hell but it does clearly state that you should kill them brutally and at your earliest convenience. If it is your position that the collection of stories which you call the "bible" ( i.e. Bibliography; collection of books) are the divine words of an all knowing deity, and you dont kill the people whom it clearly states you must. Then you are endangering your eternal soul. So get at it.

I like to read the bible with an open mind. It is a good book. I see that homosexuals tried to take over societies in their writings and this caused problems. So they decided to ban homosexuals. When any group decides to seize power, it becomes a problem. This includes homosexuals.

It also appears that women may have tried to seize power before also, so they made a practice of suppressing women. Even the black people out of Africa seem to have tried to control things thousands of years BC I find. This may have spurred an uprising against them and contributed to our racial bias.

Religions have always been trying to take over and so have the power hungry people that would like to control everything. People have not changed yet. I can't see suppressing a whole race or class of people for the actions of a quarter of their members though. Herd practices do take effect though when enough crabby ones take control.

This policy of people taking over does not have to happen. We can live together peacefully and equally.

But people haven't changed in the last two thousand years, someone always wants to be controlling as many as they can. They will steer people to interpret something the way they interpret it and slam them if they interpret it differently.

rickymouse
I like to read the bible with an open mind. It is a good book. I see that homosexuals tried to take over societies in their writings and this caused problems. So they decided to ban homosexuals. When any group decides to seize power, it becomes a problem. This includes homosexuals.

It also appears that women may have tried to seize power before also, so they made a practice of suppressing women. Even the black people out of Africa seem to have tried to control things thousands of years BC I find. This may have spurred an uprising against them and contributed to our racial bias.

Religions have always been trying to take over and so have the power hungry people that would like to control everything. People have not changed yet. I can't see suppressing a whole race or class of people for the actions of a quarter of their members though. Herd practices do take effect though when enough crabby ones take control.

This policy of people taking over does not have to happen. We can live together peacefully and equally.

But people haven't changed in the last two thousand years, someone always wants to be controlling as many as they can. They will steer people to interpret something the way they interpret it and slam them if they interpret it differently.

edit on 19-12-2013 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

Wow.
Any chance you show these "writings" where homosexuals, women and/or blacks "tried to take over".

reply to post by Pardon?


The builders of some of the pyramids were from African descent according to some scientists. These people enslaved or deceived people into working themselves to death during their reigns. There is evidence of these people in writings in India, but the people of India were trying to be neutral with these armies whereas the people in other cultures were at war with them.

Eve made a bad decision and convinced Adam to follow her. I feel there is a base for this statement being made. There are also writings of female gods taking over control of societies, this means that woman would be in charge. I can't supply a simple article addressing this, I see that there is evidence scattered amongst many ancient writings. I suppose this is speculation on my part but when you see things happening while reading these things over and over, you seem to get the drift of what was trying to be corrected in society.

The gay people are no problem unless they decide to abuse their freedom and force others to join them. You can't judge a whole class of people by some of their members actions either. Self regulation amongst the groups is crucial to coexist peacefully. We are doing a little more of that now than has been done in the past.

So this is an opinion based on reading about a thousand ancient writings, each book of the bible would be a seperate writing. The same thing seems to have happened all over the world. Even When the Japanese tried to take over, forced suppression was pushed on all their people by Americans for a long time.

reply to post by rickymouse

when you see things happening while reading these things over and over, you seem to get the drift of what was trying to be corrected in society.
The gay people are no problem unless they decide to abuse their freedom and force others to join them. You can't judge a whole class of people by some of their members actions either. Self regulation amongst the groups is crucial to coexist peacefully. We are doing a little more of that now than has been done in the past.

So what, in your extensive and insightful studies, is so awful if women had some power in society--or homosexuals?? Why would powerful women need "to be corrected in society"?

And how do gay people "force others to join them"??? Re-write their DNA??

rickymouse
reply to post by Pardon?

 

The builders of some of the pyramids were from African descent according to some scientists. These people enslaved or deceived people into working themselves to death during their reigns. There is evidence of these people in writings in India, but the people of India were trying to be neutral with these armies whereas the people in other cultures were at war with them.

Eve made a bad decision and convinced Adam to follow her. I feel there is a base for this statement being made. There are also writings of female gods taking over control of societies, this means that woman would be in charge. I can't supply a simple article addressing this, I see that there is evidence scattered amongst many ancient writings. I suppose this is speculation on my part but when you see things happening while reading these things over and over, you seem to get the drift of what was trying to be corrected in society.

The gay people are no problem unless they decide to abuse their freedom and force others to join them. You can't judge a whole class of people by some of their members actions either. Self regulation amongst the groups is crucial to coexist peacefully. We are doing a little more of that now than has been done in the past.

So this is an opinion based on reading about a thousand ancient writings, each book of the bible would be a seperate writing. The same thing seems to have happened all over the world. Even When the Japanese tried to take over, forced suppression was pushed on all their people by Americans for a long time.

Double wow.

Your argument or proof always relies on that you've "read loads of books on the subject".
If your opinions are anything to go by I'm afraid your understanding of reading doesn't involve actually comprehending what's been written.

The basis of your opinion over why there's racism towards blacks is because there were a few "bad" ones who built the pyramids? (A simplified understanding by me but accurate I think).
Why are you separating black people out?
All colours and creeds have committed acts of war and atrocity.

Really, why did you single out black people?


I really do not understand the slightest about what you've said about Eve.

rickymouse
Eve made a bad decision and convinced Adam to follow her. I feel there is a base for this statement being made.

How? Why? Who? What???
In what context did you even write those sentences?
Have you written that in the wrong thread by mistake?

The STORY of Adam & Eve is just that, a story. Possibly allegorical but nothing else.
Even the most hardened christians would be hard pushed to believe this as fact.
If anything it impresses that man has always sought to subjugate women, not the other way round.
The rest of what you wrote about the female gods is just gobbledegook.
You should read what you've written before you post.


Your paragraph about "the gay people" is beyond words.
It's some of the purest ignorance I've ever had the misfortune to read on here.

Sorry, but you're about as credible as that talking serpent who got Eve to make a bad decision.

reply to post by Pardon?


I have nothing against black people or gays. I want people of all types to get along, it will make a better world. I believe that we can all coexist together.

It is only a small percent of people that blow up these kind of things and those people further seperate the masses. It is not limited to racial, sexual, or ethnic groups. As an example I'll use Ecology. Radicals in Ecology separate people with their practices many times. The people who destroy logging equipment do more harm than good for the cause. They make people who are dependent on the wood go the opposite way. Economy and ecology are strongly opposites from this action. This is a counter productive measure to the cause.

The woman who forged a receipt comment hurt the gay community. The black people who are overzealous and demanding about affirmative action can cause more harm in the long run than good that they create. All these groups deserve a voice but to force their beliefs down others throats is not good for the cause.

This is common sense. The same thing caused hate between religious groups throughout history.

I have read many articles not many books. I try to evaluate what I read, not memorize it. I do not have to believe others interpretations, I try to understand what they are seeing though. We all have rights to believe what we see as long as we do not force our beliefs on others.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how a rocket works. A person who builds there house doesn't have to be a licensed builder or a carpenter. You do not have to be a Mason to lay cement or put in tile, brick, or lay block or stone. You do not have to be a Christian to read the bible or a Muslim to read the Qur'an. You do not need to be an archeologist to study ancient cultures or a Paleontologist to see a fossil in a stone.

People will follow and believe others who seem to have confidence in their beliefs or who they idolize. They then can be steered away from the truth. Celebrity idolization can make people buy products or believe in things that are not real. Most people are followers not leaders. Believing in what is right is better than believing in what other people think is right.

Yes, gay people can influence others to follow their ways. Men raping other men in prison does occur, although it is not as bad as most people are led to believe. Black extremists can cause a lot of people to get fired up. Al Qaeda can recruit terrorists. The governments can find people to follow their deceptive ways. This is very evident throughout society. Once people get sick of things, they form policies that last a long time.

I don't have a problem with any of these groups unless they try to force their beliefs on others and try to take over society. Even the medical trade utilizes these practices BSing people to fear diseases to negate their necessity for their members. This hive tendency is what causes problems in societies often, people believing in something because it is socially acceptable when it is wrong. The suppressing of these people because of something that was going on thousands of years ago is not right either. We just have to watch to make sure that no corrupt group mentality seizes power again. Behavior is bad, not the people themselves.

I actually like these controversial subjects sometimes. Most times I try to avoid them like the plague.

bloodreviara
If you believe that you can read something into a book
that isn't clearly stated then you must therefore believe
that you have a special ability, IE spiritually reading the
bible where others cannot, hence this claim is based
upon pride in and of itself.

That is the problem with religion, it is all based in pride
and ego, the claim that you have the correct answer to
the so called after life.

If you have you third eye opened and can because of that follow the synchronicity and get the information in contexts is that then pride and ego? Sorry but it is not since there are people who have experienced a change and know they did not understand before but can see after and follow when the information appear from all directions at the same time.

That do not mean that a person cannot come to the same understanding (wisdom) as the person who can use the third eye as a seeking tool. Understanding higher level of consciousness is real easy since the road is prepared on an extreme level when you arrive at the change.

rickymouse
reply to post by Pardon?

 

I have nothing against black people or gays. I want people of all types to get along, it will make a better world. I believe that we can all coexist together.

It is only a small percent of people that blow up these kind of things and those people further seperate the masses. It is not limited to racial, sexual, or ethnic groups. As an example I'll use Ecology. Radicals in Ecology separate people with their practices many times. The people who destroy logging equipment do more harm than good for the cause. They make people who are dependent on the wood go the opposite way. Economy and ecology are strongly opposites from this action. This is a counter productive measure to the cause.

The woman who forged a receipt comment hurt the gay community. The black people who are overzealous and demanding about affirmative action can cause more harm in the long run than good that they create. All these groups deserve a voice but to force their beliefs down others throats is not good for the cause.

This is common sense. The same thing caused hate between religious groups throughout history.

I have read many articles not many books. I try to evaluate what I read, not memorize it. I do not have to believe others interpretations, I try to understand what they are seeing though. We all have rights to believe what we see as long as we do not force our beliefs on others.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how a rocket works. A person who builds there house doesn't have to be a licensed builder or a carpenter. You do not have to be a Mason to lay cement or put in tile, brick, or lay block or stone. You do not have to be a Christian to read the bible or a Muslim to read the Qur'an. You do not need to be an archeologist to study ancient cultures or a Paleontologist to see a fossil in a stone.

People will follow and believe others who seem to have confidence in their beliefs or who they idolize. They then can be steered away from the truth. Celebrity idolization can make people buy products or believe in things that are not real. Most people are followers not leaders. Believing in what is right is better than believing in what other people think is right.

Yes, gay people can influence others to follow their ways. Men raping other men in prison does occur, although it is not as bad as most people are led to believe. Black extremists can cause a lot of people to get fired up. Al Qaeda can recruit terrorists. The governments can find people to follow their deceptive ways. This is very evident throughout society. Once people get sick of things, they form policies that last a long time.

I don't have a problem with any of these groups unless they try to force their beliefs on others and try to take over society. Even the medical trade utilizes these practices BSing people to fear diseases to negate their necessity for their members. This hive tendency is what causes problems in societies often, people believing in something because it is socially acceptable when it is wrong. The suppressing of these people because of something that was going on thousands of years ago is not right either. We just have to watch to make sure that no corrupt group mentality seizes power again. Behavior is bad, not the people themselves.

I actually like these controversial subjects sometimes.

Most times I try to avoid them like the plague.

If I were you (thankfully I'm not) I really would think long and hard about posting again.

Your "explanations" for what you have written and the notions you are trying to put over are nonsensical in extremis.
You are trying to explain a group's behaviour (can you actually call gays a group? A group of individuals perhaps) by examples of extremists????

The fact that you are labelling "the blacks" and "the gays" as such means that you at best only tolerate them. Certainly it's very evident that they are very different in your eyes and should be treated differently.

The examples you use are puerile.
"The woman who forged a receipt comment hurt the gay community". Really?
Even though it was proven a hoax I wasn't overly pleased with the sentiment behind it and guess what?
I'm not gay.

"The black people who are overzealous and demanding about affirmative action can cause more harm in the long run than good".
What, like in South Africa?

Men raping men in prison isn't gay behaviour believe it or not.
The vast majority of men in prison who commit forced sodomy are not gay.
Do you really believe that this behaviour is consistent with being gay or just being stuck in prison for years?


"I want people of all types to get along"
Well stop segregating them and putting them into groups with labels on.
Try treating people on an individual basis.
Seriously, try it.

reply to post by Pardon?


I'm sorry you can't understand that we are all different but can still get along. I have had black friends in the past, I do not feel discriminatory to black people at all. My sister married a Micronesian, he was a nice guy but he had different cultural background which made him a little depressed sometimes. He was a nice guy. My daughter married a hispanic person, I don't dislike him because of his ethnic background, I don't like him because he is kind of lazy. I had mexican friends that weren't lazy. I have had friends that are gay, they are not the pushy types. I have known some who are pushy though, I dislike them because of their attitude, not their sexual orientation.

I don't like people who try to twist my words into something they are not. I don't care what color, sexual orientation, or religion they are.

sk0rpi0n
Pay attention to the heirarchy of the speakers in the Bible. There is God, the angels, the prophets, Jesus, Paul etc.... in that order.

That's YOUR muslim influenced hierarchy. Christian 'hierarchy' (if you call it that) has God the Father and Jesus on the same level of importance. Peter is the head of the apostles, appointed by Jesus Himself. Your Muslim way of reading the bible doesn't work for Christians.

rickymouse
reply to post by Pardon?

 

I'm sorry you can't understand that we are all different but can still get along. I have had black friends in the past, I do not feel discriminatory to black people at all. My sister married a Micronesian, he was a nice guy but he had different cultural background which made him a little depressed sometimes. He was a nice guy. My daughter married a hispanic person, I don't dislike him because of his ethnic background, I don't like him because he is kind of lazy. I had mexican friends that weren't lazy. I have had friends that are gay, they are not the pushy types. I have known some who are pushy though, I dislike them because of their attitude, not their sexual orientation.

I don't like people who try to twist my words into something they are not. I don't care what color, sexual orientation, or religion they are.

Ah, the old "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" gambit.
Priceless!

I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand even the basic tenet of what I'm saying.
And that's the reason we are all different is that we are all individuals.
You have to keep lumping people into groups.

I think I can understand why your Micronesian brother-in-law was culturally depressed.

What about your white friends who are lazy, what about your straight friends who are pushy?
Do you label them as white-lazy or white-pushy or just lazy or pushy?
Does it even occur to you that they are white and straight when you are describing them?

And judging by what you've written you DO care what colour or creed people are, it's so far ingrained though you would never even admit it to yourself.

reply to post by Pardon?


My son in law tears things apart so I will come and finish them. I'm retired, I am not stupid. After two or three times I decided it was time he finished them himself. Well, he hasn't, but he hasn't torn anything apart anymore either, my daughter won't let him since the bathroom is still not usable since last year.

Yes, I have known white people who did the same sort of stuff, and I avoid them, they abused my willingness to help too often. When you need help, they don't show up to repay the favor or if they do they come over and get in the way and complicate the project. I will help people who really need help but not those who want someone else to keep do their work for them for free.

My son in law is conniving and that is the part I don't care for. He thinks he is entitled to more than he deserves. Color, sex, or sexual orientation has nothing to do with my dislike of these sort of people.

The only people who make me a little uneasy are people who are way taller than I am. I am six two, I am not used to looking up at people. They seem intimidating to me. It is like confronting Big foot. I also do not feel comfortable around people who push others around a lot. I will often stand up for the people they are pushing around though if they are in the right. I have learned not to get in the middle of breaking up a cat fight though, both women wind up attacking you.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, and whoever obeys will be called great in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-20 ). So what is the "fulfillment of the law?

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. - Romans 13:10

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. - Matthew 7:12

The entire Law is fulfilled if you trust in Jesus's Teachings. He is The Way. Treat others as you would like to be treated because God is a God of Justice and by forgiving others and treating others nicely, God will also forgive you and treat you nicely.

God is a God of Justice - Isaiah 30:18

If you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, But, if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. - Matthew 6:14-15

When you condemn others, you condemn yourself. (Luke 6:37)

Jesus taught The Golden Rule and that is Truth - It is Love - The entire fulfillment and summary of God's Law.

@flyersfan..... ''Christian 'hierarchy' (if you call it that) has God the Father and Jesus on the same level of importance.'' - According to Christian scriptures, Jesus said to direct prayers to God. He never once said to anybody ''pray to me''. But you reject large chunks of the Bible anyway, so these details don't matter to you. __________________________________________________ ''Your Muslim way of reading the bible doesn't work for Christians'' - Apparently Jesus' own teachings don't seem to be working for Christians who ignore Jesus' teaching ''worship only God'' and prefer to make a god out of Jesus.