Surviving fires

So you've got a survival retreat, well-stocked with months or years of supplies and all the necessities you can think of? Damn gubmint won't ever find you dug in like a tick in the middle of nowhere? You're concealed from aerial drones?
You've got plenty of bullets for a show-down with any and all trespassers?
I propose that the gubmint doesn't need to expend any resources beyond a 3 cent match to counter and defeat all of a survivalists preps.
Do you bug out from your bug out location? Do you dig further in and hope the fire burns itself out before suffocating you? Forest fires can rage for weeks even with active intervention to extinguish them. How do you deal with the heat? How do you deal with the stampede of wildlife trying to burrow into your retreat? What do you do for air?
I'm not trying to diminish the efforts of preppers (being one myself) and I genuinely would like to know if anyone has considered dealing with fire in their BOL.

The same as always with fixed locations: if under siege (by fire in this example) hope you aren't in that location altogether.

Shelter? In a SHTF-scenario, any moving target is a target with much smaller area of being able to be hit.

You built a fort = an angry mob will pull it down.


Medieval castles or citadels under siege had to hope for relief attacks from allies. Otherwise they were nearly always getting overrun, even they withstood for a long time.



Don't get yourself trapped.

reply to post by ManFromEurope

That's good siege info but I was referring to fires. One can't just shoot their way out of a blazing inferno. Whether you're bugged in or bugged out, fires are a serious threat to your security and well-being. If you're bugged in and a fire hits, you can grab your BOB and bug out. But if you're already bugged out it's likely you have nowhere else to go.

reply to post by whitewave


A fire is a siege, just not man-sustained.

Anyway, you described the only way to guarantee the survival of a siege - don't be there..


Any chance to escape is far better than trying to survive the fire in your hole. You won't. Suffocation, burns of 3rd or higher degree, it is a horrible way to die. Don't try to stay in a hole during a fire, unless the fire has surrounded you COMPLETELY.

Fire bunker. We have them here in Australia even for non preppers. Basically a fire proof door covering an entrance to a bunker built in to the side of the hill or man made mound. The fire front (or line) passes quickly. You only need enough air to breathe for a few hours. You are right about not wanting to be in a hole but if the entrance is blocked and air tight then you will be ok.

The thing that kills most in a wild fire is the radiant heat. You can avoid that by just being behind a natural fibre curtain or brick wall for example. The temperatures can reach incredible highs in just a few minutes and then drop just as fast. As long as you can survive that then you can survive the fire. The basic plan in this country is to wait out the fire front inside your home with rolled up wet blankets around the door cracks, then when the fire front has passed, usually about 10 minutes, go out with a mop and bucket of water and extinguish any embers and pieces of the house that have caught fire. You can also survive a fire front in your vehicle by getting on the floor of the vehicle with the windows and vents shut and a blanket over you to protect from the radiant heat, once the fire front has passed then you get out and away from the car, the tyres and paint will likely be on fire but you have survived.

There are some weather conditions that make it impossible to defend a home and on such days your best bet is not to be there, leave the night before or early that morning taking your photos with you. If there is a fire on such a day you can only let it go up in smoke and come back afterwards.

Of course it will make it easier to spot you from a chopper or drone once the fire has gone through. However fires have an unusual way of turning on themselves and extinguishing themselves at different points along the front. Many times a house will be burnt but the one next door will be ok, or 3 or 4 burnt and the next 3 or 4 not and the next ones burnt.

Things might be different in North America.

Do you know how deep underground you'd have to be in an airtight shelter to avoid the heat factor? The air intake would have to be sealable as well as the door. I'm thinking an oxygen canister to prevent rebreathing stale air in the shelter in case the fire lingers for several hours might also be a good idea to have.

Even in the worst fires here, it only gets about a foot deep. And it doesn't last for more than 10 minutes, but things might be different there. However I imagine that a fire in Arizona or New Mexico would be similar to the ones here.

reply to post by Cinrad


Very good to know and thank you for sharing your knowledge. I've seen some fires that raged for weeks even with the emergency services doing their best to battle the blaze. And I've seen burned areas smolder for weeks even when it looks as if there's nothing left to fuel the fire. I'm sure the forest fire or prarie fire or whatever would burn according to the wind speed so what do you think would be a good amount of warning time to escape an oncoming fire?

About 3 years ago we had Black Saturday, killed 187 people I think. It was the end of a 10 year drought, the authorities hand been managing the fuel load (undergrowth) and the day was the hottest on record. The winds were blowing at over 100kms an hour, some fires were moving just as fast. People were telling stories of literally being chased down the road by a wall of fire as they realized they couldn't stay and had to get out. These are the conditions I refer to when I say that some fires are not survivable. What I am saying is that it all depends on the weather conditions. Fire usually travels 4 times faster up hill than down hill, but when the wind is blowing 100 km/h it travels at pretty much the same speed either way. If it has dry fuel as opposed to green fuel it will change too. We have had a couple hundred years experience at fighting wild fires and still find it hard to get it right.

We have a warning system now, Code Red days mean if you live surrounded by trees then you should leave as you cannot defend your property should a fire start. There is also a BAL rating (Bushfire Attack Level) which is different for each block and between the fire danger level and the BAL you should be able to work out what the best course of action - most times.

When we had our record drought and heat, fires around here were constantly breaking out. The grass was so dry that it was crunchy. I live in a prairie region that has constant wind so fire is always a consideration.
I know that asbestos was once used successfully in preventing the spread of fires but, due to health considerations, is now being removed from all buildings. My problem with that is knowing that asbestos only poses a health concern WHEN it's removed. It's very difficult to obtain asbestos anymore (some industries do still use it) but I wondered if there were any suitable substitutes that perform the same function and are readily available?

reply to post by whitewave


One thing that preppers do not have the luxury of is denial, so imo your question is very important. I was just thinking about how many of the fires over the past 20 or so years have been created for the benefit of furthering the agenda, from creating access to ares otherwise blocked from everything from trucks to aerial drones and just downright practice for events larger than ever seen on earth. We know it is going to be by fire next time.

The fires and clearing may just be buying a little more time. Maybe. The answer to this thread is for me going back to the original and number 1 preparedness technique which is to always be prepared to walk away from bugout with nothing other than what you can carry. Also mental/spiritual preparedness will help more than anything you can carry in a BOB.

Fires are going to happen, if you think you will be able to return the the same location that burned down, think about burying some of your seed, medical supplies, protection/weapons, food, water and or purification, blankets, socks, shoes, clothes, flint, pot or pan, (?) preps.

Fire can take everything. What an awakening and challenge.

reply to post by whitewave


Digging ditches and planting fire absorbent plants. This is what they do in large forest fires, they dig trenches to prevent the fires from crossing into urban areas and larger forested areas.

reply to post by antar


Fire absorbent plants?

reply to post by Cinrad


Amazing insight, thank you.

reply to post by whitewave


Real quick, I have seen documentaries on these types of plants and trees, even though they are not the fail safe they can help in short lived brush fires.

I loved the member from Australia that really KNOWS and is a well spring of experience. I will keep reading, thanks for the thread.

www.bewaterwise.com...

reply to post by antar


That's a great list, antar. Thanks for that. I know that digging trenches is the main fire preventive method but if one is trying to stay concealed, it is a big deterrent to concealment. Very visible from aerial views. I was thinking more along the lines of earth-bermed underground shelter with airtight seals on the doors. Positioning such a shelter in a natural trench-like terrain MIGHT be helpful but then one has to deal with flooding and mudslides. *sigh* As a regular home-owner, there's any number of things one could do for fire safety/landscaping but as a prepper there are other considerations. I'm trying to figure out the best blend of both worlds. Your list helps.

The best way to control them here is to start in winter. We carry out a lot of fuel reduction burns, this is what they allowed to lapse prior to Black Saturday. When it is cool and humidity is high enough they will light a fire in the forest (bush is what we call it) and monitor it, if it starts to burn close to agricultural land or any structures then they put it out. By doing this you get rid of all the underbrush and leaf litter. This means if a fire starts on a bad day then there will be a lot less for it to burn and the fire is easier to put out. However this is most useful when the fire is still on the ground, once it gets in to the tree tops and if the wind is strong enough then it can jump from tree to tree. If we get on to it early enough this is where helicopters and planes help the most. Anyway, reducing fuel for the fire 100 m around your shelter is still the best thing you can do.

Check out this website
CFA 1 and click on the tabs on the side
and the same with these ones:
CFA 2
Tips on preparing your property

Thanks cinrad. Avoiding/surviving fires seemed like a basic oversight in the prepping arena. Preppers spend lots of money on preps, supplies, special classes, training exercises and overlook basic security. Security from armed, hungry marauders is not the only (or worst) threat out there so stockpiling guns and ammo will only be of so much service to the prepper. You can't shoot your way out of a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, mudslide, flood or fire. Most other natural disasters can be prepped for rather easily or with careful selection of BOL locale but fires are dangerous on more than one front: suffocation, heat exhaustion, actual burns.
Clearing underbrush from around your shelter is totally the sensible thing to do....if you don't mind giving up the rest of your security. Cleared areas in the woods are aerial beacons to drones. The are obvious signs of habitation to any casual trespassers. It basically negates the whole point of bugging out in the first place. If one didn't mind neighbors and visitors, bugging out would be pointless. Avoiding detection by other humans (the real threat) is why people bug out to start with.
I was wondering if any other preppers had considered this problem and worked out a solution.

whitewave
Avoiding/surviving fires seemed like a basic oversight in the prepping arena. Preppers spend lots of money on preps, supplies, special classes, training exercises ...

Clearing underbrush from around your shelter is totally the sensible thing to do....if you don't mind giving up the rest of your security. Cleared areas in the woods are aerial beacons to drones. The are obvious signs of habitation to any casual trespassers.

I was wondering if any other preppers had considered this problem and worked out a solution.

You are absolutely right, I hadn't thought of that myself either. Yet another reason I have rejected the bug out option in favour of staying put and building a lot of respect in a close knit small community and relying on said community for protection. I am prepping my property and area for the day I can no longer buy or sell without the mark of the beast, rather than for a SHTF scenario. I don't see security in guns and ammunition, someone will always have a bigger, smarter gun with more ammo and more troops.

I too would like to hear if anyone else has thought of a solution to this problem.

reply to post by whitewave


I LOVE the earth berm idea. I want a cob house so bad, and to have the duel purpose would really take it over the top. To have it hidden and partially underground? Yes to that idea. One other thing is that I recall you and your entire family being somewhat professional spelunkers, so to build your firesafe bug out based on that idea you could make it through anything. I know you are one of the greatest preppers out there and far more able to survive anything nature or man can throw your way.