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Is It Legally Possible To Live Off The Grid, Free From The Government?

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posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:10 PM
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I've been thinking about this question for a while now. Is it possible? Or would you be considered a criminal because you don't pay taxes for the property you are on?

This poses another question, does it truly cost money to exist no matter what you do?

Just curious about others thoughts on the matter. Not expecting a lot, but I would like to hear some opinions.




posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


I would think technically no. Because most of the land in the world is "owned" or "ran" by a government in some way...

Also depending on what type of government you have in the country you live in will determine how they will react to not paying taxes, or growing your crops, ect ect.

So to answer your question, it's possible but prolly not legal in most places.

-SAP-



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:26 PM
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Aparently not....................according to several recent threads about proposed taxation of solar energy,etc etc....
The loophole is about to be closed there too.......
I am trying a boat and counting on the law of the sea somewhat......but that too is a closing window.....editby]edit on 18-12-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)

The censow refuses to print window as the last word of my post...???
edit on 18-12-2013 by stirling because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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it's actually bizarre when you think about life in that way. it's like we are actually stuck on a real prison planet. Or, at least, we have let it become a prison planet.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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The direction everywhere on the planet is towards an anthill society.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


We very much so live on a prison planet. Drone all day to have money taken from you by all kinds of people, just to have a little bit left to spend on other crap.

Freedom isn't actual freedom.

-SAP-



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


Yes it is but I wont be telling you how on the web ....big brother is watching dont you know ..



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


I have some friends that live entirely off the grid with wind and solar. They are very wealthy as it cost more to set up your land to be self sufficient than it does to pay the utilities companies.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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Arizona wants to tax those people for power generation



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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I live about as "off the grid" as I possibly can. That is to say I have a PV (solar electric) system. I harvest rainwater. And I have none of the municipal services that most folks consider normal. I also grow most of my own food etc. Here in my local community we do a lot of bartering and sharing. So for my homestead we have a truly minimal engagement with "the grid".

But minimal does not equal zero. I still have to pay property tax every year. I have a vehicle and there are taxes associated with keeping that legally on the road. And there are things that I still must buy to live what I consider a reasonable lifestyle. And for that there is VAT payable.

So long story short... there doesn't seem to be a way to do this whilst still engaging with society in any meaningful way and whilst still maintaining a reasonable standard of living. I wouldn't choose, for example, to live on the street or to try making a "hide out" camp site on property that I did not own. So this seems to be about as "off the grid" as I am willing to go.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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Costa Rica and Nicaragua are both places one could stay off the grid and deal with no Government. Of course the creature comforts are gonna go bye bye......



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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The State considers you/me/everyone to be property. You are expected to work and generate revenue. 'Nuff said.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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The short answer is yes, it is legally possible to be completely off the grid.

However, it would be extremely difficult. There are still places buried in the wilds of Alaska that are not controlled by any borough that have no property taxes. You would need to figure out how to live in the deep wilderness with an outhouse at -40 f. You would have to cut your wood with an axe, and transport it on your back. After all fuel all has federal taxes on it. You would have to grow, forage and hunt your own food as well preserve it yourself. You would have to learn to clothe yourself with the hides you tan and the furs you trap.

So essentially, it's legally possible, but more difficult than most people in modern society want their lives. There is no such thing as ease or convenience in such a lifestyle. But there are still hardy folk that pull it off, we will just never hear of them. Even the people on the TV shows still use things like fuel and electricity to function in their daily lives.
edit on 18-12-2013 by woodsmom because: Corrected auto correct



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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There is no freedom left.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 02:17 PM
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This is a very good question. I would say at this point in time it would be very difficult, however I think it is still possible.

This brings up another question though, can we continue to advance as a civilization and keep our personal freedom?

If things were to continue they way they are with no interruptions, I don't see how anybody could be "free" in the future. As the population grows and our world becomes more congested and reliant upon one another, I see no possible way of ever seeing true freedom again. So how do we move forward from here?



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by straddlebug
 

It would honestly seem that freedom, real freedom, is nothing more than an illusion.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


Not only an illusion but an exaggeration... They throw that word out to make you feel better, it more like soft-core slavery.

-SAP-



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


It is possible, but you may have to get lucky first. I was attacked first by a crooked township and they forced removal of a little cabin which they gave permits for 10 years prior. Actually, I never used the cabin but I was taken to court and found the courts denied me my basic rights of statute of limitation.

So I had a friend and we formed a campground, and moved the cabin next to a creek in an area not zoned. So first you must go into the outback and find an un zoned area. Next, don't put in a foundation or connect to the earth, don't do anything permanent, be willing to be portable. So now I have a beautiful little 18 by 18 home on a creek, built on skids like some of your forefathers.

Did you notice the small size, this may be required to fall through the cracks. Next make sure any out buildings are primitive and or portable. Learn to do without septic systems as well. Don't bring any pipes out from the building, any water goes into a bucket under the sink, then carry it out and water the garden or flowers. If water flows from the home to the earth, the county will come down on you with both feet, keep it simple and they have no teeth.

Now the outhouse. This would not fly do the the health district. So research and build a composting toilet, they work very well. Oh, do you think you can shower inside, perhaps if you want to carry water out after. So just make a little enclosure with a portable water heater fed from the creek, or a source you have and shower in this enclosure.

Now electrical. I have lived for years, not now, off the grid on boats. Solar works well. I use a two panel array, run all led lights, and a little refrigerator, well a cooler type. Heat is with wood. Yes this is doable and fun, but you have chores and nothing is easy, it takes planning.

Last, I confess, I don't live there all winter, but I could, it is well insulated, well, way too much insulation because I over heat it way too easy. Last, I got lucky, the guy, a friend needed another car and I bought all the property as a life lease. No taxes as nothing there is taxed, no electrical, no bills, just basic maintenance. My wife just noticed what I was writing and she tells me, "I love that little home, I can hardly wait to get back". We sold a three story log home and moved into this little home and we are happier there. Right now, we are south where it is warm, but I know I could go home anytime and be happy there also. If I knew how, I would post a picture of the cabin, it is awesome, I designed it and built it, twice actually.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 05:44 AM
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Depends how 'off the grid' you can get I suppose.

Ever planning on using a road? Taxes pay for those. School? Fire brigade? Police? All of this infrastructure is really hard to avoid.

I have a friend who lives 'off the grid' and is a smash the state anarchist. But 100% of her income comes from state benefits. Without the state, she and her kids would be destitute living in the gutter.

So I think it's probably quite tricky to get fully off grid.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


the truth is living off the land would be 10 times harder than say for example living in a city. That's why most people live in cities, and then town, then villages, then on their own, then last resort off the grid.

If you lived off the grid with no income it's not impossible. But you'd have a very hard life. You'd have to get up early and stay up late working day in and day out just to scrape out a living. And ya if you set up a permanent shelter you could easily be run off the land by game wardens if you're caught. What you could do instead though is set up a tent of some kind. So a Yurt or a Canvas hunting tent and live in that. So if anyone told you to "leave" you could leave and bring your house. Like they'd give you a time limit to leave so you'd have ample time to get you're stuff moved. That's if you have a car.

Plus also you'd have to learn a "ton" of skills. Like you'd have to know, farming, agriculture, hunting, preserving food, aquaponics, fishing, greenhouse, seeds, livestock. You'd have to be a handyman, a hunter, a sportsman, and be tough as nails.

Lots of risks to living out in the woods too. But there's risks to everything right. You could always try it and if you don't like it, just move back to the city right?

But it would make for a memorable life, unlike city dwelling.

But no you generally can't live without money very easily. Money is nearly as important as oxygen. But all money is is a representation of value. So if you're working hard each day doing something productive then chances are you'll be making money.

One cheap way to live might be living out of an RV or van, or living as a bum.

But as for totally off the gird here's a show where some people are doing almost that. I really like this show:






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