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Former Top NSA Official - We are Now In a Police State

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posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:50 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

How do we get rid of the police-state?

How do we return to a society based on individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom?

First of all , it will never be gotten rid of, nothing will return to "as before".

And as to the society you mentioned, when did that ever exist ??

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:52 PM
reply to post by beezzer

We don't beezzer, you don't come back.
edit on 18-12-2013 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:54 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

The NSA issue is just one of many arms of a dangerous octupus. We need to stand up on all fronts:

-Speak out bravely, even as we are being listened to and recorded
-Come together as communites, to provide the needs the government is not providing
-Stop buying products and services from corporations that are part of the problem
-Pull your money out of mega-banks and use a local bank or credit union.
-Get out of debt if you can.
-Vote out of office all elected officials that want to maintain the "status quo".
-If you work in the system for the problem, find another job, and leave in protest.
-Speak out in public at rallies and protests - not to show the elites, but to show unity in our communites.
-Talk to your friends and family about your concerns.
-Challenge in court any entity that violates your rights.
-Work harder yourself at being a better you.
-Tell all your loved ones how much you love them.
-Do some of the things you've always wanted to do. Do them soon.
-Live your life with hope for the future. Our children need hopeful leaders, and we need our children.

Many of these things seem difficult, but if you prioritize what you know to be right over what you fear, at least you can go forward with your chin up, and a sense of hope.

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

On the one hand, if every square inch of this country was covered by security cameras or satellites, no murders or rapes would go unsolved. That's a good thing...

But on the other hand, those with access to the data gain the advantage of never losing power. They have the ability to squash any kind of meaningful resistance before it even gets started. That's a bad thing.

It would be different if we lived in a country where we were happy with our government, and wanted them to stay in power, but that's not the case anymore.

I'm afraid the only way out at this point is if we all just stop working, but even then I don't believe we'd know where to go from there. Co operation isn't exactly one of our attributes these days.

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:11 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Police State? Sure, but are we just falling into a police state in the name of security or has this all been well thought and planned out? If it's the later, who can we point fingers at? New World Order/Illuminati?

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:18 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

How do we get rid of the police-state?

How do we return to a society based on individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom?

Expose the Big Lie of 9/11 which was the sole justification for it all. Conduct a double-reverse pys-op using theirs against them. Undermine the power of the Big Lie by taking away all it's power for the LIE that it is, for the murderous hoax and the public "myth" that it is.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Police State? Sure, but are we just falling into a police state in the name of security or has this all been well thought and planned out? If it's the later, who can we point fingers at? New World Order/Illuminati?

Check this out - Zelikow.


Once we are given the opportunity, to clearly see and recognize the 9/11 official story for the Big Lie that it really is - then it loses it's significance and thus it's power to shape policy and history "even as the experiencing generation passes away" (Zelikow)

While at Harvard he worked with Ernest May (member of Zelikow's 1998 think tank) and Richard Neustadt on the use, and misuse, of history in policymaking. They observed, as Zelikow noted in his own words, that "contemporary" history is "defined functionally by those critical people and events that go into forming the public's presumptions about its immediate past. The idea of 'public presumption'," he explained, "is akin to William McNeill's notion of 'public myth' but without the negative implication sometimes invoked by the word 'myth.' Such presumptions are beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community."

Zelikow's focus was on what he calls 'searing' or 'moulding' events [that] take on 'transcendental' importance and, therefore, retain their power even as the experience generation passes from the scene.'

The Official Story - by Philip D. Zelikow

Which then brings us back to a bright, cloudless, blue skied sunny September morning, with very light winds to the N/W.. (not good passport flying-fluttering weather).

If it's a lie then it's a lie. It HAS no transcendent significance or importance and no real meaning except as we might begin to pay homage, and historical justice (as a point of learning), to the 2996 people who died, by remaining committed to what's true and real. They deserve as much so that something of value and substance might be LEARNED from it in regards to what never to do or to be, ever again. It's a bind on such evil and wickedness based on nothing more than what's real and true, because the official story (O.S.) simply cannot be believed or accepted because to believe it we must divorce ourselves from reality and believe in the unbelievable, and only because the truth of the matter is just too hard to take and is something that we, especially if we are proud American citizens, that we simply cannot accept, that one's own government or elements therein could conceive and carry out such an atrocity, on it's own constituents no less.

But is that really the more patriotic position to take in the face of all evidence to the contrary?

Courage then is what we need, the courage to face the truth and the reality of it as it is and in the process reclaim, for the little man and the downtrodden, the sacrificed, the exploited (including exploited patriotism) and all those who've been victimized by it's abuse of power - nothing less than the very cause and course of history as we look both back and forward to a better day and a brighter tomorrow for the sake of everyone's enlightened mutual best interest, and boldly march fourth to unheard cheers from heaven and if there's a groan to be heard in the midst somewhere, then so be it.

And if there are tears to be shed, then let us be the ones to shed them, and also be the first to smile again for all the right reasons in the realization that all is NOT lost and that the pre-9/11 innocence is still available and then it (the lie) loses all it's power, yields and hands over whatever power it might have retained, as a lie - for the sake of a truly just and noble historical pursuit that is worthy of the human being.

Best Regards,


"... if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded (buildings toppled), the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it.

Such An act of catastrophic terrorism that killed thousands or tens of thousands of people and/or disrupted the necessities of life for hundreds of thousands, or even millions, would be a watershed event in America's history.

It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented for peacetime and undermine Americans' fundamental sense of security within their own borders in a manner akin to the 1949 Soviet atomic bomb test, or perhaps even worse.

Constitutional liberties would be challenged as the United States sought to protect itself from further attacks by pressing against allowable limits in surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects, and the use of deadly force. More violence would follow, either as other terrorists seek to imitate this great "success" or as the United States strikes out at those considered responsible.

Like Pearl Harbor, such an event would divide our past and future into a "before" and "after."

The effort and resources we devote to averting or containing this threat now, in the "before" period, will seem woeful, even pathetic, when compared to what will happen "after."

Philip D. Zelikow December 1998, PRE-9/11.

edit on 18-12-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:56 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

I think you nailed it with this - whatever occurred that September morning, whoever perpetrated it, whoever knew or didn't know it is the catalyst for all of this that we are talking about today. The answer lies in the details that morning and in the surrounding events preceding and following it.

This would at a bare minimum seem like unjustified expenditure and unwarranted infringement on Constitutional rights if an answer outside of the "Official Story" was accepted by the people.

If public perception was swayed so drastically and the people "Bold faced" saw how they were manipulated then we would have crossed a major hurdle in turning this thing around. As impossible as this feat seems it would merely be the start of yet many more hurdles left to jump.

And living in the largest city in the US which has been effectively disarmed, I don't hold much hope that we will ever take back what we have lost. I sooner believe we will continue down this path up to and including some newer friendlier PC correct version of something they refer to as a Constitution.

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:52 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

How do we get rid of the police-state?

How do we return to a society based on individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom?

This is a system we have sustained by feeding it and giving it power and now if we were to
take away that power through passive resistance would it do any good?
At this state I'm unsure if this beast would not be self sustaining and might need more then
just to stop empowering it! At this point I believe only a revolution of a forceful kind could
put us on a path back to our republic! Though this is just my opinion and there
are others out there still fighting within the system! I just don't see, how this will do any good,
fighting inside a system where the rules can be changed just to suit the needs of the powers that be!
Seems futile in my opinion! Maybe its already to late to bring about any change and we are all
brainwashed to remain in servitude until we are useless to our masters!
We can't deny the truth that the majority of us are intent to listen to the mindless ramblings of
the unambiguous so called artists and screen writers, watch unreal TV, sports or plug in to the
disconnected majority! We allow our fears to isolate us from reality! Live inside a matrix of illusions
and only occasionally coming across the truth which is quickly forgotten because of our ADD!
So where does this leave us? I really don't know anymore. At one time I had hope for us but now
I am at a cross road of whether to waste my energy on those that just don't want to know or those
that will talk about things in passing but are not at all serious to try and change things!
This just leave between 1 and 3 percent that care enough to try!
It's unfortunate that this is about the same percentage of those imposing their will to cause flaws in society
that they can take advantage of! So that's about 4% of the population that are fighting the fight between
good and evil! This would not be so bad except that the half that are evil have wealth on their side and
those that are trying to do good have been given labels as kooks, nuts and crazies! This does not give the meek
very good odds! Maybe all we can really do is wait and hope that an opportunity presents itself to even up the
odds or just to wait patiently for the other shoe to drop! One or the other is all we might have IMHO!
Maybe all that is needed to change the world is to live selflessly intent to love all unconditionally!

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:02 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

there once was a *certain* dictator, Batista, I think, in Cuba. A dictator and the cheers went up when Castro overthrew him.


when you tear down an old system , do not replace it with a worse system!!

I think when the 1930s German middle class was SO tired of seeing that 600% inflation a year, that they elected Hitle and the SSS so that they could actually feel safe enough to function.

in a sense it is our own "success" at media digging out all atrocious crimes, the might well fuel the paranoia of our safety! once upon a time, some terrible murder might be commited in some tiny town somewhere and no one knew about it ten miles away. *now* they know about it in England and Russia! everyone knows about it.
thus the crime fears escalate. then cameras are developed. then the control freaks use these cameras for their own power reasons.

remove all of the bastards? why...100 more will only arise in their place.

"mellow" hippies do not run for Power and Control positions! the career-path is self-selecting.

you would have to remove the entire urge for power, from the human race, before solving this problem.

eventually the Power will Go to the people and I am MUCH more afraid of that one!!
why...imagine that everything you do, think, feel, has to be "approved" by everyone around you for ten blocks or five miles!
consensus reality.

no one shares any blame.

want to have an outdoor barbeque?
why you will have to have written permission from every single human being for miles around you as your smoke could Kill a Kid with his asthma!

wear old raggy clothes, why the thought police will come and they will tell you, "your raggy clothes are bringing down the morale of 500 people all around you, shape up or move out"!

everyone will have to then be just alike.

"top down management" is the phrase. the perceived government control is only the beginning!

"common core". all kids must learn exactly the same thing in the same way. a truly standardized way of teaching.

you have ten items to process and nine of them have a macro so that you do all of them all at once; takes ten minutes. ah..but the 10th one takes even longer than the first nine as it has to be individualized! ugh.
the nail that sticks out is the first to be hit by the hammer!!

in a huge social system there is this top down management. cannot play a tune unless we ALL can dance to it the same way.

the square pegs are to be eliminated, from the round hole processes!

a grocery man once told me that the huge supermarket chain orders all of its watermelons from one co-operative in south America and for a fixed price for five years.

one signature signs up 2000 stores! a Macro in action. simple and direct.

now if there is one store that got missed and 30 farmers come with melons., imagine how it will go:
"truck broke down, no melons today..."
"the drought, I have 10 stunted melons".
"I have orange centered melons today".
--a nightmare of management, each farmer on each day has to negotiate everything fresh for each day!

so this I see is the real problem. the need for down management and individuals only jam up the gearworks!

by the time the earth has 10 billion people, I suspect there will be
one government.
one currency.
one culture.
one language.
--the Japanese will live like the New Zealander like the Indian like the Frenchmen.


posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:17 PM

32 year NSA Veteran Bill Binney gave a startling interview about what is really going on with the NSA and what they do with the information ABOUT ALL OF US that is gathered. If what he says is true, then all of us, and especially those of us who have posted at ATS, are screwed. The stage is set. Republican or democrat ... it doesn't matter ... it's all the same when it comes to feeding the totalitarian beast.

Investment Watch - Former Top NSA Official - We are Now In a Police State

32-year NSA Veteran Who Created Mass Surveillance System Says Government Use of Data Gathered Through Spying “Is a Totalitarian Process”

Bill Binney is the high-level NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information. A 32-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency, Binney was the senior technical director within the agency and managed thousands of NSA employees. ......

By way of background, the government is spying on virtually everything we do. All of the information gained by the NSA through spying is then shared with federal, state and local agencies, and they are using that information to prosecute petty crimes such as drugs and taxes. The agencies are instructed to intentionally “launder” the information gained through spying, i.e. to pretend that they got the information in a more legitimate way … and to hide that from defense attorneys and judges.

Conspiracy thinkers have been saying this for decades.

They were ridiculed, and/or destroyed in the media for it.

Where does one think the tin-foil-hat stereotype comes from.

So what has changed?

... Well now secret power no longer has to spend millions to marginalize
people who speak their suspicions. Everyone already knows it's true.

That means what Bill has done here, is save the police state
billions in marketing funds, because you know, police state.

/police state bot: FlyersFan should be allowed to continue the good work.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:25 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

Gosh, look at it from a personal level. You get this job, doing this/that/the other thing for a contractor, and you do your job, but day by day the big and horrible picture reveals itself to you: Its a picture of Orwellian proportions, total surveillance. where NO ONE in the process seems to have ultimate control over it, it just is unfolding on its own, without any external controls.

Within that view, Snowden looks pretty damn good for stepping out of it. In fact, for the Snowden we see, there's probably a whole lot of other Snowdens still in the system who can't figure out how to step out as gracefully as he did.

But there it is, the cold hard truth that way too few people are willing are to face. I have respect for those who do what they can to do what they think, as individuals, is right. Its a tough call.

I always love how first responders to any thread
can make the most profound statements, while missing the point of the OP,
and casually pivot the discussion to something they are more comfortable with.

In this case Snowden, last seasons' news, when
FlyersFan specifically focused on the fact that
the police state is hiding it's intel from defense
attorneys and judges.

/police state bot: Tridentblue, should be encouraged to post more,
as they can't recognize a hole in the constitution when it is staring
them in the face, but simultaneously will carry water for the topics
we choose to make important.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:33 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

How do we get rid of the police-state?

How do we return to a society based on individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom?

The first step would be to identify the problem,
but the question posed here is how. And not just
how "is it"... but how "do we"...

Way to bait people into incriminating themselves
or their plans online, in the very medium that is
being discussed as compromised.

/police state bot: Beezer bears watching, have
paid disinfo agents argue with him, and see who
steps in to try and identify the problem.

/police state bot: probably easily controlled with
celebrity. If they become dangerous and specific,
we can always have Jack pay him a visit.

Mike Grouchy
edit on 18-12-2013 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:35 PM

For some reason, your post brought back a distant memory of a song from my youth -
Steppenwolf's "Monster" very much seems like the NSA:

Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into the noose
And it just sits there watchin'


/police state bot: Ganjoa; quotes Steppenwolf,
username Ganjoa, probably smokes mother nature.
Add name to list. Cross check to make sure they
are not one of our agents.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:41 PM



Call me, you have my number.......

edit on 18-12-2013 by Sublimecraft because:

/police state bot: Sublimecraft; the Rorschach of conspiracy thinkers,
readers will see what they already believe. Very dangerous, but also
very useful in getting other posters to expose their position without
causing any long term damage. Leave in place, study techniques to
train disinfo agents.

Mike Grouchy
edit on 18-12-2013 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:44 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

even for an old codger like myself (61)..I like the music of MUSE. I have noticed that the anti-government posts over the last year has been rather subdued in the intensity of their statements...seems like whatever you believe about the validity of the U.S. being a police seems to be working

/police state bot: Jimmyx has noticed how many
conspiracy thinkers have "disappeard" over the years,
but self censors and only alludes to the problem(s).
Probably knows more about technology than government.
Pressure financially to cut down their online activities.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:47 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

The only successful form of protest that I can think of in history was in Germany (if my history serves me right, please correct if not). After the First World War, a military government stepped in which consisted of the "Freikorps", they were ex-military who felt out of sync with society and wanted a military regime set up.

However when the received power, people just refused to work, I think they lasted about 3 days before collapsing.

John Lennon's bed protest would be a more successful idea I think, after all, who doesn't want to spend all day in bed?

/police state bot: iRoyalty is very dangerous. Young.
Realizes art has a deeper and longer lasting effect than
intimidation. Could be a trend setter. Use the google
advertising bot to seduce them into a new online hangout
or game... one away from ATS.


posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:53 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

I posted a thread a couple weeks back asking if something didn't happen, and if that actually stopped the world going into a totalitarian state.

However, I am going to go back on myself now. I think it has happened. THIS IS IT. We are all expecting something from a movie, when in reality, the life we lead in this world as it is now, is the NWO conquering all.

Think about it. In the US, you all ready feel like your not free, the rich are dam rich and the media and president do what they want and tell you what to do. You ask people to realise what's coming, when in my eyes, we missed it, it's happened, it's happening. Stop waiting.

/police state bot: Aware, but not dangerous,
ignore unless they start holding meetings in a beer hall.
Most people are not smart enough to recognize brace22's
strategic potential.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 08:57 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

The gov can go blow itself. It knows how out of line it is. It's totally trashed our Constitutional rights to the extent that we'll never recover.

The US talks a great game - liberty and all that goes with it - but it's a lot of hot air. We have very limited freedom, and when we fight wars in other countries we're not bringing them freedom. We're exporting our violence and fascist ways.
edit on 12/18/2013 by Restricted because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/18/2013 by Restricted because: language

/police state bot: Member Restricted has a cathartic effect on readers,
articulating their anger, and using high concept labels. Speaks in the
royal "we", leave untouched. NOTE: check back history of their library
activity, from before they started online gaming.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 09:00 PM

reply to post by FlyersFan

To the Original-Poster: Star-n-Flag !

Background: William Edward Binney - ( wikipedia )

Sentiment: Credible ... ( or someone worth listening to ? )

TEXAS: Lt. Governor Dewhurst Statement in Response to U.S. District Judge Ruling on Unconstitutional NSA Data Collection
edit on 18-12-2013 by FarleyWayne because: added ... "TEXAS"

/police state bot: ALERT LEVEL 2, this member is supporting another member!
ALERT LEVEL 3: omg they start by verifying the information source(s).
HOLY # ALERT LEVEL 4: it's a goddamn Texan to boot. Recommend immediate
IRS investigation.

Mike Grouchy

posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 09:03 PM

reply to post by beezzer

How do we get rid of the police-state?

Not at all will take the collective effort of a great number of Americans to reverse this process, and CONSTANT OVERSIGHT and VIGILENCE to make sure that it cannot happen again. ALL THOSE GUILTY MUST BE PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW. This will be a deterrent to any other power grabbing tyrants that find themselves in Government.

Bear in mind that the longer you wait to clean house in Washington, the harder it will be to come back from it.

/police state bot: How did we miss this one in the general sweep of summer 2010?
/back up bot: leave dangerous bear alone in the woods. Only a threat if it can see you.

Mike Grouchy

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