It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Noah's Ark Has Been Found. Why Are They Keeping Us In The Dark?

page: 8
31
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 08:54 AM
link   
I can't quite believe people are still buying into this.

However, lets just assume that the story is true for a moment (i know, very unlikely and requires the suspension of belief).

Archeologically speaking, would there even be timbers remaining from that far back? The reason i ask is that the oldest preserved boats / ships that have so far been found have all been in areas that aid preservation (ie, peat bogs, old marshes, etc). Wrecks found in other areas that are over a thousand years old are extremely rare and also generally not very well preserved.

Therefore how has this "find" remained so well preserved in such an exposed area in conditions not conducive for boat preservation?

That is before we even get to any of the other myriad of problems associated with this claim.

Like i posted earlier, my biggest problem with this claim is that the earliest known "Noah" like stories are contained within the Epic of Gilgamesh (Sumerian) and their own records describe the vessel as being circular and made out of reed and bitumen - in other words nothing like this find.

But hey, people believe what they want don't they? The Sumerians tell us and we ignore, just like the Egyptians describing building the pyramids and some refusing to believe it!

As to the incredibly long life spans claimed for that era - can anyone explain how bone samples from bodies found dating to that era show normal life spans? (in actual fact, generally much lower than today). If you live for 900 years, it is going to be recorded in your bones!

Or did only those in the "i believe in a mythical entity club" get the long life spans?


edit on 19-12-2013 by Flavian because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 09:55 AM
link   
reply to post by Flavian
 


Gilgamesh and Horus are one and the same person. He reigned after the flood until 1968 BCE. Noah is the origin, not Gilgamesh.

Carbon 14 levels must remain consistent in the atmosphere in order for radio carbon dating to work. The "bones aged to that time period" are aged incorrectly.

"Radiometric dating and real time may be assumed to be equivalent only if the following criteria are met:

For C-14 dating the conditions are:

1. The material to be dated must be organic

2. The organism to be tested must have gotten its C-14 from the atmosphere

3. The sample has remained chemically and physically a closed system since its
emplacement.

4. That we know what the atmospheric concentration of C-14 was when the
organism lived.


C14 Uniformity

As we can see to equate a C-14 year with a calendar year depends on the uniformity of C-14 in the atmosphere for many thousands of years into the past. Measurements were done on organic sedimentary layers worldwide showing that radiocarbon ages do not increase at a steady rate as one goes down layer by layer but, instead, they increase at an accelerated rate. That means that the concentration of C-14 decreased rapidly with depth. This shows that the atmospheric concentration of C-14 was not stable in the past and such dating methods may not be as reliable as we first thought."



Also all mankind before the flood lived for long lifespans, it is not just the 8 who were righteous before Almighty God. This is an indicator that the atmosphere at the time was dramatically different than it is today (thus radio carbon dating does not work pre-flood). Almost like a global flood event changed the atmosphere of the Earth resulting in a vast reduction in life spans and a sudden increase of Carbon 14 levels therein.

God Bless,



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 01:27 PM
link   

ElohimJD
reply to post by Flavian
 


Gilgamesh and Horus are one and the same person. He reigned after the flood until 1968 BCE. Noah is the origin, not Gilgamesh.


And your evidence to support this statement would be...? There is a rather uniform wall of international scholars that would strongly disagree with you on this. Even amongst Hebrew scholars it is well understood that many aspects of Gilgamesh found their way into Hebrew texts and that both likely derived from a common source.

The parallels between the stories of Enkidu/Shamhat and Adam/Eve have been long recognized by scholars.[18] In both, a man is created from the soil by a god, and lives in a natural setting amongst the animals. He is introduced to a woman who tempts him. In both stories the man accepts food from the woman, covers his nakedness, and must leave his former realm, unable to return. The presence of a snake that steals a plant of immortality from the hero later in the epic is another point of similarity. Andrew R. George submits that the flood story in Genesis 6–8 matches the Gilgamesh flood myth so closely, "few doubt" that it derives from a Mesopotamian account.[19] What is particularly noticeable is the way the Genesis flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood tale "point by point and in the same order", even when the story permits other alternatives.[20] In a 2001 Torah commentary released on behalf of the Conservative Movement of Judaism, rabbinic scholar Robert Wexler stated: "The most likely assumption we can make is that both Genesis and Gilgamesh drew their material from a common tradition about the flood that existed in Mesopotamia. These stories then diverged in the retelling."[21]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh#Relationship_to_the_Bible



Carbon 14 levels must remain consistent in the atmosphere in order for radio carbon dating to work. The "bones aged to that time period" are aged incorrectly.


A most excellent demonstration of a complete lack of understanding on the subject matter. The levels of atmospheric C-14 are not what requires a constant, it's the constant rate of nuclear decay we measure.



"Radiometric dating and real time may be assumed to be equivalent only if the following criteria are met:

For C-14 dating the conditions are:

1. The material to be dated must be organic

2. The organism to be tested must have gotten its C-14 from the atmosphere

3. The sample has remained chemically and physically a closed system since its
emplacement.

4. That we know what the atmospheric concentration of C-14 was when the
organism lived.


C14 Uniformity

As we can see to equate a C-14 year with a calendar year depends on the uniformity of C-14 in the atmosphere for many thousands of years into the past. Measurements were done on organic sedimentary layers worldwide showing that radiocarbon ages do not increase at a steady rate as one goes down layer by layer but, instead, they increase at an accelerated rate. That means that the concentration of C-14 decreased rapidly with depth. This shows that the atmospheric concentration of C-14 was not stable in the past and such dating methods may not be as reliable as we first thought."


1&2 are correct, though 2 should be a no brainier since every living organism that has ever been on earth obtained all gasses imbibed from Earths atmosphere.
3. If by chemically and physically enclosed system you mean inside earths atmosphere and dead then sure, ill go along with that. 4. We have ice core samples going back approx 800,000 years and so have a very clear picture of the earths atmosphere and its composition and changes throughout that time period. However, you seem to miss the aspect played by radioactive decay in measuring C-14 as well as the fact that its only one of very very many methods of dating used in science. Focusing all your ire on one testing method while ignoring the fact that no one method is relied on for dating shows you really have no idea how science works. That makes me sad. Additionally, could you site the source of your quote? I'm curious if its selective quote mining or if the source goes even farther into la la land.




Also all mankind before the flood lived for long lifespans, it is not just the 8 who were righteous before Almighty God. This is an indicator that the atmosphere at the time was dramatically different than it is today (thus radio carbon dating does not work pre-flood). Almost like a global flood event changed the atmosphere of the Earth resulting in a vast reduction in life spans and a sudden increase of Carbon 14 levels therein.

God Bless,


No, it isn't an indicator of a different atmosphere.its not even indicative of lengthier lifespans. Nice try though. Please explain to me how a global flood (for which there is no evidence of a singular global flood event as described in the Abrahamic texts) would alter the earths atmosphere where it increased levels of C-14 and decreased levels of oxygen? You are aware that we can track levels of gasses in our atmosphere through ice core samples right? We have a very clear picture of atmospheric composition for several hundred thousand years and the fantasy you describe never existed, or at least hasn't for several hundred thousand years.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 02:08 PM
link   
reply to post by peter vlar
 


Your concerns are expected and duly noted.

I will not be able to convince you of the validity of the truth, as you said so many "experts" disagree with the truth; and it is expected you would believe "experts" over a man of God.

It is not God's time to bring the understanding of this historical event to mankind (how it happened). In His timing He will make all things known.

However, my concerns regarding radio carbon dating are valid and supported by data.

From Wiki:
"Dating considerations

The variation in the 14 C/12 C ratio in different parts of the carbon exchange reservoir means that a straightforward calculation of the age of a sample based on the amount of 14 C it contains will often give an incorrect result. There are several other possible sources of error that need to be considered; the errors are of four general types:

-Variations in the 14 C/12 C ratio in the atmosphere, both geographically and over time
-Isotopic fractionation
-Variations in 14 C/12 C ratio in different parts of the reservoir
-Contamination

Atmospheric variation

In the early years of using the technique, it was not assumed that the atmospheric 14 C/12 C ratio had been the same over the preceding few thousand years. To verify the accuracy of the method, several artefacts that were datable by other techniques were tested; the results of the testing were in reasonable agreement with the true ages of the objects. However, over the next few years significant discrepancies were found, in particular with the chronology of the early Egyptian dynasties: artefact ages derived from radiocarbon testing were several centuries younger than what were thought to be the true ages.

Impact of climatic cycles

Because the solubility of CO 2 in water increases with lower temperatures, glacial periods would have led to faster absorption of atmospheric CO 2 by the oceans. In addition, any carbon stored in the glaciers would be depleted in 14
C over the life of the glacier; when the glacier melted, as the climate warmed, the depleted carbon would be released, reducing the global 14 C/12 C ratio. The changes in climate would also cause changes in the biosphere, with warmer periods leading to more plant and animal life. The effect of these factors on radiocarbon dating is not known."


Look I know full well how outlandish my post would appear to a man of science in the present age. It is expected and normal at this time for you to feel the way you do.

God will reveal what is true, when it is time to do so. Until then it is God's will that you believe what you feel is right.

God Bless,



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 02:14 PM
link   
I would like to add that c14 dates have been corroborated by lake core samples from Japan.


Since the 1960s, scientists have started accounting for the variations by calibrating the clock against the known ages of tree rings. As a rule, carbon dates are younger than calendar dates: a bone carbon-dated to 10,000 years is around 11,000 years old, and 20,000 carbon years roughly equates to 24,000 calendar years.

The problem, says Bronk Ramsey, is that tree rings provide a direct record that only goes as far back as about 14,000 years. Marine records, such as corals, have been used to push farther back in time, but these are less robust because levels of carbon-14 in the atmosphere and the ocean are not identical and tend shift with changes in ocean circulation.

Bronk Ramsey’s team aimed to fill this gap by using sediment from bed of Lake Suigetsu, west of Tokyo. Two distinct sediment layers have formed in the lake every summer and winter over tens of thousands of years. The researchers collected roughly 70-metre core samples from the lake and painstakingly counted the layers to come up with a direct record stretching back 52,000 years. Preserved leaves in the cores — “they look fresh as if they’ve fallen very recently”, Bronk Ramsey says — yielded 651 carbon dates that could be compared to the calendar dates of the sediment they were found in.


www.nature.com...
edit on 19-12-2013 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-12-2013 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 02:22 PM
link   
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Everyone of your concerns about C-14 is considered and adjusted for when testing. Irregardless, you don't seem to care that its a testing method with a limited range of about 40,000 years. It's also not the only test used to obtain results and is used in conjunction with other tests to obtain consensus.its essentially the scientific equivalent of triangulation. Your concerns and misrepresentation of ratio metric dating based solely on C-14 is puzzling to me as many other methods are used and C-14 isn't the most prevalent let alone accurate method, depending on the time frame of the sample. It has nothing to do with taking the word of an expert over a man of god. It has to do with who produces the results and unfortunately the science has both data and consensus to support it while the biblical narrative has conjecture, hyperbole and rationalization for supporting evidence. You're more than entitled to your worldview if its what works for you but by all means feel free to discuss the topic instead of cherry picking rebuttals while ignoring other questions.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


The biblical flood happend around 2350bc, when fragments of comet enke, impacted in and around the north end of the Persian gulf, and Indian ocean. Burckle crater in the Indian ocean and um al binni crater in Iraq are the most recognizable signs.
A second event happend a few hundred years later , again fragments of enke.
The best evidence to date is the work Marie-Agnes Courty, as I mentioned previously, at tel leilan in northern Syria.
The town was destroyed by fire, the buildings pulverized into dust, which is mixed with impactites of melted rocks. Then the whole thing was covered over and sealed in by layer of flood sediments.
Courty also found that there is a cyclic occurance of villiages being destroyed going back some 8k years. Her published papers, while heavy archeological reading, are very very good.

One thing that was fascinating, is that at one Neolithic site in Syria, the locals used local scrub brush for fires. It is clear n the archeo record, then there was a destruction by fire, of the villiage. Then in the immediate aftermath the people stopped burning local wood, and instead started burning a carboniferous material. This material was mixed with water and fell as rain and it covered the whole region. It filled in low spots in the landscape, and the people dug it up and used it for fires for.several generations, until it was gone and or the local brush returned.
This carbon layer is analogous to the younger dryas black mats found in the Americas and recently in northern Europe.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 03:29 PM
link   

jjkenobi
For all the people who keep questioning the amount of rainfall there is a theory out there that a water canopy surrounded the earth at one time. This canopy kept all of the earth at the same constant temperature and it's protection from the sun and increased oxygen levels and allowed humans to live for hundreds of years. During the flood event the canopy fell to earth, causing a one time massive flood which then drained into the earth causing springs and reservoirs and lakes. Additionally after the flood the human life span decreased to less then 120 years. I'm not saying I subscribe to this idea but the theory is out there.


Aaaahhhhy yes,isn't this the one that was held up by a load of cherubs? Guess it must be true then
.



posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 07:08 PM
link   

jjkenobi
For all the people who keep questioning the amount of rainfall there is a theory out there that a water canopy surrounded the earth at one time. This canopy kept all of the earth at the same constant temperature and it's protection from the sun and increased oxygen levels and allowed humans to live for hundreds of years. During the flood event the canopy fell to earth, causing a one time massive flood which then drained into the earth causing springs and reservoirs and lakes. Additionally after the flood the human life span decreased to less then 120 years. I'm not saying I subscribe to this idea but the theory is out there.


The theory is out there, all right, but it doesn't work.
The Vapor Canopy Hypothesis Holds No Water

The Vapor Canopy Hypothesis Holds No Water
By Paul Farrar

In this short and, I hope, simple note I will discuss the physical implications of the often proposed "vapor canopy" explanation for the source of water for Noah's Flood as recorded in "Genesis".

Noah's Flood is alleged to have covered the mountains of the earth to a depth of 15 cubits (about 8m). To have covered Mt. Everest it would have required a depth of water of about 9km above sea level. If the flood was only required to cover the mountains in Urartu (Ararat), where Noah's boat is said to have settled, about 5km of water would be needed.

The "vapor canopy hypothesis" states that before the flood, the water existed in the atmosphere as water vapor. The flood occurred when this vapor condensed and fell as rain, flooding the earth. The flood subsided later, various explanations being given for where all that water went.

First, let us look at atmospheric pressure. For the earth's atmosphere, the pressure is almost exactly hydrostatic, since it is held to the earth by gravity and velocities are too low to significantly change the pressure. In plain language this means that the air pressure at any point is equal to the weight of the air in a unit area column above that point. At sea level, air pressure in US engineering units is about 14.5 pounds/sq inch because a column of air one inch square extending to the top of the atmosphere weighs (Guess what!?) 14.5 pounds. On top of Mt. Everest, the pressure is lower because the lowest and densest 9km of the atmosphere is below that point.

Now the "vapor canopy" would form a part of the atmosphere, being a body of gas (water vapor) gravitationally held to the earth. It would in fact be most of the pre-flood atmosphere. There would have to be enough vapor to form 9km of liquid, when condensed, and, therefore the vapor would weigh as much as 9km of water. The pressure at the earth's surface, where Noah and family lived, would be equal to one atmosphere PLUS the weight of a 9km column of water of unit area. This is equivalent to the pressure 9km deep in the ocean. What is this pressure? Well, each 10m of water is roughly equivalent to one atmosphere, so the pressure would be 900 atmospheres. The atmosphere would also have a composition of about 900 parts water vapor to one part of what we call air today.

How could an atmosphere almost 100% water vapor not condense? The temperature would have to be raised to the point where the partial pressure of water equals 900 atmospheres, i.e. the boiling point at that pressure. So we find Noah et al. living in a 13,000psi boiler. Is this credible?




posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 07:15 PM
link   

ElohimJD

God will reveal what is true, when it is time to do so. Until then it is God's will that you believe what you feel is right.

God Bless,



Once again, out of curiosity, when do you believe the flood took place? Do you believe it was worldwide or local?
Just trying to check historical records of other civilizations during that time period.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 01:14 AM
link   

Imagewerx
Aaaahhhhy yes,isn't this the one that was held up by a load of cherubs? Guess it must be true then
.


No, no! Skyhooks. (Nods)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 01:17 AM
link   
Right ark, wrong man...

The gods were angry at mankind so they sent a flood to destroy him. The god Ea, warned Utnapishtim and instructed him to build an enormous boat to save himself, his family, and "the seed of all living things." He does so, and the gods brought rain which caused the water to rise for many days. When the rains subsided, the boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim set loose first a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven, which found land. The god Ishtar, created the rainbow and placed it in the sky, as a reminder to the gods and a pledge to mankind that there would be no more floods



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 12:19 AM
link   
reply to post by freakjive
 


Sorry to break it to ya, but its NOT Noah's Ark.

The visual description of what the Ark looked like can be found in the Talmud. It does not resemble a modern day ship.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 01:15 AM
link   

punkinworks10
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


The biblical flood happend around 2350bc, when fragments of comet enke, impacted in and around the north end of the Persian gulf, and Indian ocean. Burckle crater in the Indian ocean and um al binni crater in Iraq are the most recognizable signs.
A second event happend a few hundred years later , again fragments of enke.
The best evidence to date is the work Marie-Agnes Courty, as I mentioned previously, at tel leilan in northern Syria.
The town was destroyed by fire, the buildings pulverized into dust, which is mixed with impactites of melted rocks. Then the whole thing was covered over and sealed in by layer of flood sediments.
Courty also found that there is a cyclic occurance of villiages being destroyed going back some 8k years. Her published papers, while heavy archeological reading, are very very good.

One thing that was fascinating, is that at one Neolithic site in Syria, the locals used local scrub brush for fires. It is clear n the archeo record, then there was a destruction by fire, of the villiage. Then in the immediate aftermath the people stopped burning local wood, and instead started burning a carboniferous material. This material was mixed with water and fell as rain and it covered the whole region. It filled in low spots in the landscape, and the people dug it up and used it for fires for.several generations, until it was gone and or the local brush returned.
This carbon layer is analogous to the younger dryas black mats found in the Americas and recently in northern Europe.


I poke around quite a bit on George Howard's site (cosmictusk.com) and I read there much of what you posted here. However, there was an earlier recorded impact around 3114 BC that may have actually been recognized by the Mayans as a repeating pattern in history and may have been the genesis of the Mayan calendar:

therealmayanprophecies.com...

The calendar may have been started then because their ancestors had kept records of regular impacts happening every so many thousand years, dating back to the start of the Younger Dryas when a massive comet most likely entered the solar system, disintegrated after encountering one of the larger outer planets, and slammed into the Earth:

cosmictusk.com...

cosmictusk.com...

cosmictusk.com...

If these discoveries are correct, then the flood stories could have their origins as far back as 12,800 years ago...and could have repeated regularly since, as debris from Comet Encke (and other debris in the Taurid meteor stream) continually bashed Earth over the millennia.

This could also explain the 'why' of such large and accurate stone calendars, pyramids, etc. being built all around the world, with those very structures being, in some cases, the only remaining parts of their cultures...because it was pretty darn freaking *important* to be able to predict when these meteor streams were going to possibly impact your future relatives, and putting such effort into them so they would last thousands of years was necessary.

Calendars for marking the seasons and optimal planting times, my arse. These things were survival imperatives!! As was the Ark...and, there may have been MANY arks needed over the centuries!
edit on 21-12-2013 by Varhaard because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 11:16 AM
link   
reply to post by Varhaard
 


Hi varhaard
I myself poke around the tusk,quite a bit in fact.
I think I used to peruse Mr Howard's older site, in the late nineties, because there used to be an old html site that had lots of impact informaton, and it was there that I found Napier and clube's early work on the ice age breakup of a comet.
Then came firestone and the idea of an extra terrestrial impact starting the YD.
I myself wondered whether there was a connection
between the mayan calender and the ydb event.
When you look at the whole picture; meso American creation myth, imagery of a great feathered serpent, a cycle of distruction and rebirth and so on, I don't think it is a stretch to assume that long count is based on observations of this meteor swarm.
One author, not sure who exactly, either bob kobres or mike Baillie, has made the case that advent of celestial calendars, worldwide , was to time the arrival of these fierce meteor showers.

There was a recent thread on new images carved onto the stones of Stonehenge, and what they mean.
The images have been called axes or daggers, but I think they are a fireball count.
i.imgur.com...
When we remember that the henge has been reconstructed and stones restood in the modern era,it is very possible that tthe stones do no have the original orientation, and if you flip that stone 180deg,
those axes look more like meteors

edit on 21-12-2013 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-12-2013 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-12-2013 by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 11:52 AM
link   
reply to post by Varhaard
 


I'm starting to think that the calendars were indeed intended to time the arrival of the meteor swarm, and it's agricultural applications came later.
And ill bet that we will find that these early physical calendars pre date agriculture, in the region.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 01:28 PM
link   
I'm surprised to see so many nay- sayers here, with no remark about the shape in the picture.
I'm a trained observer....pilot, field engineer, outdoorsman, in my 60's....so, I say a child could look at that and tell you it's a boat.

edit on 21-12-2013 by GBP/JPY because: Yahuweh...the coolest of names, I swear



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 02:00 PM
link   

liejunkie01
Just for fun here.

The "thing" is at an altitude of 6,300 ft.

The bible says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights.

There is 24 hours in a day.

40x24=960 hours

6,300÷960=6.5625 feet per hour

It would have to rain 6.5 feet an hour for the water to make it to 6,300 feet in 40 days.

I hope my math is correct, please correct me if i'm wrong.

So it rained 6.5 feet per hour for 40 days.

Where did all that moisture come from?

Where did all that moisture go?

Next i'll let you look up the most rainfall ever recorded in history. While your at it look up the climate for the time.

There is no room for logic in religion.

This is not the arc, math and common since pretty much takes care of it.

edit on 19-12-2013 by liejunkie01 because: clarification

edit on 19-12-2013 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)


There is a flaw in your logic, in the premise. You assume that the spot was at the same altitude when the Ark came to rest there. That is not proven. I maintain that the Earth was smaller and flatter at the time of the Flood.



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 02:02 PM
link   



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 02:03 PM
link   

Lazarus Short
There is a flaw in your logic, in the premise. You assume that the spot was at the same altitude when the Ark came to rest there. That is not proven. I maintain that the Earth was smaller and flatter at the time of the Flood.


?????? Sorry? Smaller? Flatter???



new topics

top topics



 
31
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join